TRS19 SP1 Now LIVE

Regarding the recent "resource errors" after updating via Content Store (henceforth "CS"). QA has found these do not repro when installing into a clean data folder (ie first time install) and seem to be sourced from DLC content build dated sometime last year. This prompts the user an update is available for the DLC but when the user "updates", an "error" pops and can result in missing deps. Sometimes these can be resolved via DLS, other times they cannot due to the missing assets being "payware". Current design is the user cannot simply uninstall when there is an "update". They are forced to update first, then if that works they may uninstall. In this case when the update process fails the user may be stuck in an "update \ retry" loop.

The work-around is to:
- exit the game
- access the "packages" folder
- delete the package scNum that is prompting for the update (ie sc407 is Sebino)
- run the Launcher and rebuild the DB
- run CS and query the DLC (ie sc407)
- click "install"

This process allows the user to maintain the current data folder and re-install the DLC as though a first time installation.
It also removes the "update" option for the DLC and installs w\o errors or missing deps.

A task for a proposed design change has been submitted that would allow users to uninstall DLC even when an update is available.
"Aside from handling errors, this improves functionality by not requiring the user to:
  • ...update something just to allow them to remove DLC they no longer want (file space etc)
  • ...mess with the file hierarchy in the packages folder"

Notes
-
If you're not sure about package numbers - please ask
- If you find there are still resource issues after using the work-around, please inform QA via bug report (we tested against all the DLC in this thread, but IDIC in SWE & SE is real...)

I have this same problem and routes and other DLC I had before sp1 of 19 was fine next thing I know i'm getting a prompt to redownload a lot of dlc. Haven't been able to run trainz dlc routes since and I have nearly all of them besides the JR one's.
 
Hello and sorry, if I am plowing into a discussion!


I really like EEP. Powerful builder, few bugs, nice and numerous stock assets, a nice chunk of downloadable freeware, delivers gorgeous routes on limited systems too and even HD payware is normally only a few Euros. Drawbacks are: Some build modes more complicated and fiddly than on Trainz, if you want the full experience you need the more expensive expert version (esp. the ease of life functions), while most payware is not expensive, it can add up pretty fast and it is mainly focused on the trains of Germany, Austria and Switzerland, with few from other countries (while as a German this is not a problem per se for me, esp. since even very rare and obscure Trains are available, I still like some foreign trains too which can be hard to get on EEP). A further drawback for assets makers is the fact that some assets are very easy to make, others are so complicated you need special programs for it. But generally EEP is a great program for route builders (and has some very nice routes in-build in all versions).

I really like Trainz too and use it the most of the Train sims, because it too has a powerful builder, nice and numerous stock assets, lots of freeware, depending on your preferences normally few must-have payware, since TANE and Esp TRS19 very gorgeous routes and the widest range of trains covered. In addition it is the most easy to use builder. While EEP expert has some modes easier to use than in Trainz, some other modes are way more fiddly, the EEP dev team can be too focused on detail sometimes.

It is some years since I tried EEP but my experience was not good. Very little English localisation so unless you are a fluent German speaker, very hard to use. My experience was that just about everything was payware with people wanting several Euro's for a few trees or one item of rolling stock. It made Dovetail's business plan look generous. Maybe it's changed and improved since then...
 
It is some years since I tried EEP but my experience was not good. Very little English localisation so unless you are a fluent German speaker, very hard to use. My experience was that just about everything was payware with people wanting several Euro's for a few trees or one item of rolling stock. It made Dovetail's business plan look generous. Maybe it's changed and improved since then...
Hello!
Yes, the older versions of EEP had some alibi-English, not more. Newer versions like 15 or 16 have more English localisation, but ability in German will help, since the best version of instructions and the official DB signal-book are in German. EEP started as the work of two enthusiasts about 20 years ago and this shows in the good parts and the bad parts. You can go to a very high level of detail, when it comes to building and using the track system and the drivable Train models had stuff like functioning Sifa (optional use if you want just fun driving) many years before TSW or others. In driver mode only "Zusi" is more realistic, but that is more a Train driving simulator than a builder (you can build quite nicely, but the grafics besides great cockpits are more utilitarian). Indeed the expert version of Zusi is used officially in the apprenticeship of real train drivers by several Train companies.

Back to EEP: Their attention to detail can be a disadvantage too. Some build modes can be very fiddly if going to the higher levels of detail. And I can imagine how difficult it can be if your German is not good, since some instructions will only be full explained in the German version.
As for payware: Did you have the standard or expert version? The expert versions (which are about 60 Euros for the current one, less for the older ones) have more assets included from the start, which are a great foundation. As I wrote before, yes ,you can throw out a ton of money on the payware, but unlike Dovetail you can pick only the stuff you need and there are normally more options and animations included. Most EEP stuff can be individualised in game quite nicely.

While you can get on a payware galore on EEP as easily as with TS/TSW, there are differences. Quite a chunk of the EEP payware is ease of life, e.g. there is a group of Trees payware, which are grouped together for faster deployment. These same trees are in the expert version for free, just not grouped together or very specific payware, like a single Train station to recreate one specific city. If you ask the question "Do I really need this payware?" the number of payware you will buy will shrink quickly for EEP, not for Dovetail.
I loath Dovetail for their EA-like payware plan. They are really expensive and fond of making dependencies to force you to buy additional downloads. For example, you cannot buy the Frankfurt-Mannheim route without being forced to buy Mannheim-Karlsruhe as well. Neither Trainz nor EEP force such dependencies.

As I wrote above, I use Trainz the most, EEP second, because no matter the hiccups experienced, both are really great builder programs!
 
Regarding the "Content Store", why is it flashing yellow again and again as there is nothing in the "Updates" tab and nothing new in "Store"?
And it would be so great if the "Store" tab does NOT include purchased content (that logically already appears in "Purchased" tab)...
 
I had a quick look at the latest EEP manual and so far as I can see, you can't import real world terrain (DEM) or mapping data overlay which makes it a bit limited for creating routes based on real locations as you can do in Trainz with Transdem.

Each sim has its own business model - the Dovies sell DLC (some of which is very good), but actually so do N3V except more often or not it gets tangled in the missing dependency game. They are also fond of rebundling pretty much the same software and trying to see if anyone is daft enough to pay full price again (Platinum edition the latest example) or the controversial Netflix style silver and gold where you can't keep access to the software if you cancel.
 
I had a quick look at the latest EEP manual and so far as I can see, you can't import real world terrain (DEM) or mapping data overlay which makes it a bit limited for creating routes based on real locations as you can do in Trainz with Transdem.

Each sim has its own business model - the Dovies sell DLC (some of which is very good), but actually so do N3V except more often or not it gets tangled in the missing dependency game. They are also fond of rebundling pretty much the same software and trying to see if anyone is daft enough to pay full price again (Platinum edition the latest example) or the controversial Netflix style silver and gold where you can't keep access to the software if you cancel.
Hello!

You can use DEM with EEP but that is one of the complicated asset things I mentioned. One is a tool called "Höheneditor" for EEP, with a new version in development for EEP 15+. This tool converts DEM data into an EEP Groundmap. This converted map you can import into EEP.
An alternative to Höheneditor is the newer tool "LandEEP" which creates EEP map data from real world data sets, you can import into EEP.
Second is you take Google Earth and make 100m*100m screenshots of the region you want. These screenshots can be placed on "Bodenplatten"(Groundplates) for EEP. There is a tutorial on youtube for this.
Since I do not create 1:1 remakes of real world places, this was not a major factor for me.
But here is an EEP tutorial, a bit aged, since it is version 11, but great for the basics. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLs3b6dqkylrF34cQGQQKouYi2xtyiHsve Especially creating your own blocks and groundplates can be a godsend for your build

Yes, all simulation teams have their own business model, but personally I find that of Dovetail the worst. Very expensive, exorbitant number of partly piecemeal DLC, forces additional downloads you would normally not buy and while some routes or Trains are really good, you only get that bit. For example, even if I would use the current steamsale of TS/TSW it would cost me well over 150 Euro to roughly get the same content I have in Trainz or EEP, because of those fracking forced dependencies, like routes or Trains only functioning with other payware. And Dovetail reuses old stuff as well, the current TS is outside the graphics update the old engine of several incarnations ago. That is something smaller dev teams tend to do everywhere. Big updates only every so-and-so versions. Additionally, about six Trains I would like are not even available in payware or at all.

For comparison, if I would buy the current EEP, I can take over my old stuff or if for whatever reason I wanted to buy the payware anew, it would cost me around 90 Euro at full price! With some discounts you get sometimes, it would be down to 60-70 euros. Well below TS in price. One drawback is that 3 Trains are unavailable in EEP I would really like for it. hopefully some day...

My Trainz19 (Europe edition) did cost about 50 euros with DLC. OK, got it on sale, but even without sale I would not come above the EEP costs. And one thing I love Trainz for is their wide range of Trains and rolling stock you get for free even without the DLS. And beyond that I did not need too much DLS and payware downloads. There are only two trains I want and do not have in Trainz, but they are rare designs. These two are there in EEP.
 
Hey N3V Gang,

Are you aware of / working on fixing the "DRG Class 05 Steam" payware on TRS19?

Problems with other routes & updates for TRS19 seem to be mostly cleared after 3 weeks, but this one persists.

Attempting to install the package results in an error with the following unknown missing dependencies:

<kuid2:212731:501054:1>
<kuid2:212731:501051:1>
<kuid2:212731:509050:1>
<kuid2:212731:509051:1>
<kuid2:42778:3001:2>

Thanks,
Diego

There are no missing dependencies in a clean install with the DRG package. I suggest you uninstall the route and reinstall.
 
Deneban I take your point, but it was getting so that if I downloaded anything into TS2019 I would spend the rest of the day fixing assets and dependencies. TANE is fine; - I can load a route in TANE and it finds all the dependencies and it's all good with nothing broken or faulty (and I am very aware that things weren't always like that with TANE). I load the same route into TS2019 and it's a horror show.

Given that the underlying code for managing the database is pretty much the same, and that we do not see any of the issues you are describing here, I suspect that the fault lies in your database (perhaps corrupt, perhaps modified content, perhaps something else such as having disabled items that are required).

I would suggest you create a fresh local data folder and install one of the problem packages. You will see that it installs without errors.

I would certainly love QA to explore your current local data folder. If you wanted to zip that up and send us a link to download it, that would be great (it will be a large zip file but could identify and solve the problem you are seeing and help other people in the same boat). I also suggest removing the backup folder prior to zipping (then you can put it back again afterwards).
 
But... Data maintenance, asset tracking, updates, and all the other stuff gets to be too much work, and when something breaks, it's sometimes just too much for those who don't have a technical background.
>>
The next step for DLC items is a "single .tzarc file" install. This means that DLC will either be "fully installed" or "not installed" and will avoid many of these issues which are generally (we think) related to incomplete downloads.
 
Given that the underlying code for managing the database is pretty much the same, and that we do not see any of the issues you are describing here, I suspect that the fault lies in your database (perhaps corrupt, perhaps modified content, perhaps something else such as having disabled items that are required).

I would suggest you create a fresh local data folder and install one of the problem packages. You will see that it installs without errors.

I would certainly love QA to explore your current local data folder. If you wanted to zip that up and send us a link to download it, that would be great (it will be a large zip file but could identify and solve the problem you are seeing and help other people in the same boat). I also suggest removing the backup folder prior to zipping (then you can put it back again afterwards).

It is very kind of you to make that offer Tony. Since I make and modify assets for my own use there could well be a lot of modified content though. I have everything disabled at the moment in the way of built in routes and DLC so I imagine you'd want me to enable it again before I send you anything.
And once my current local data folder is zipped up where do I send it to?
 
Given that the underlying code for managing the database is pretty much the same, and that we do not see any of the issues you are describing here, I suspect that the fault lies in your database (perhaps corrupt, perhaps modified content, perhaps something else such as having disabled items that are required).

Hi Tony,

With all due respect, my experience would indicate there are quality problems in the SP1 that transcend the condition of the user's database. My experience has been the asset baseline for TRS19 has been "floating". Refer to my Post #180 in this thread. It demonstrates the SP1 actually regressed the content of 5 specific kuids: the ":2" versions regressed to ":1" by SP1. As all the ":2" appeared in a "built-in" content folder of my Dec 15 hard drive image, I got those assets from a previous DLC download, so they did not come from any user intervention. If this one example of 5 exists, more may exist.

The "underlying code for database management" and the QA testing can be easily thwarted if the asset baseline definition is in flux.

Tzarc-compare.jpg


I would suggest you create a fresh local data folder and install one of the problem packages. You will see that it installs without errors.

Commercially, that really isn't the point though is it? If Microsoft took this approach, that it is sufficient that a pristine user configuration updates pristinely, most of our PCs would not survive a Windows Update.

By definition, an SP's purpose in life is naturally to encounter user pre-existing, "off-pristine" conditions. The SP should be more "sailor-proof" and fix pre-existing conditions before imposing the changes, if thats whats need to get a successful result with a good majority of users. For example, why not run a rigorous database review, with interaction with the DLC/DLS database, before the changes are applied?

Please take KotangaGirl's Post #233 seriously, she's hit the "commercial" nail on the head. None of us want to see users permanently frustrated away from Trainz due to SP update problems. But this is what will result if the design objective of the SP is not improved (i.e. account for pre-existing problems such that it leaves things better off than before) . Not all user SP1 issues are neatly summarized in this thread, many users have started their own threads for SP1: taken all of these in sum total, I dare say you have a commercial quality problem to fix.

Trainz has come a very long way technologically in 20 years, and it would be a grave travesty that it cannot make traction or lose followers for something as simple as proper DLC update.
 
Last edited:
We certainly agree it would be a travesty if things went backwards with each update. The difficulty here is that we have not been provided with the steps that cause the problems in certain cases. We also do lots of testing in lots of configurations and haven't seen these problems. The key is most likely in the tests that we haven't done (hence the need for more information from the people with issues so that we can replicate their experience).

The 5 items you have mentioned as regressed have been fixed pending the next update - that was a case were the problem was identified and could therefore be easily resolved.

Kotangagirl - please use this link to submit your zip file: Trainz Bug Report. Note that disabled/enabled won't affect the zip file
 
The difficulty here is that we have not been provided with the steps that cause the problems in certain cases.

Much of what has been mentioned is in your face, doesn't need "steps" to reproduce. Three examples...

The unpopular change for many users from the classic interface in Surveyor to accommodate those who want to flip to and from Driver every two minutes. That's apparent as soon as you open a route in Surveyor.

The "paused" animations so you can't check whether procedural junctions are working properly, amongst other things. Fairly straightforward to observe in Surveyor.

DLC in a loop constantly trying to re-download. Can't miss that black box which spawns every time you open the game.
 
Hi Tony,

Thank you for your reply. I am hoping you will come to embrace the concept that the design objective of SPs needs to expand to include reparation of pre-existing user database conditions before imposing the intended update. That is commercially essential for keeping and building Trainz buyers/users.


Commercially, that really isn't the point though is it? If Microsoft took this approach, that it is sufficient that a pristine user configuration updates pristinely, most of our PCs would not survive a Windows Update.

By definition, an SP's purpose in life is naturally to encounter user pre-existing, "off-pristine" conditions. The SP should be more "sailor-proof" and fix pre-existing conditions before imposing the changes, if thats whats need to get a successful result with a good majority of users. For example, why not run a rigorous database review, with interaction with the DLC/DLS database, before the changes are applied?

Please take KotangaGirl's Post #233 seriously, she's hit the "commercial" nail on the head. None of us want to see users permanently frustrated away from Trainz due to SP update problems. But this is what will result if the design objective of the SP is not improved (i.e. account for pre-existing problems such that it leaves things better off than before) . Not all user SP1 issues are neatly summarized in this thread, many users have started their own threads for SP1: taken all of these in sum total, I dare say you have a commercial quality problem to fix.

Trainz has come a very long way technologically in 20 years, and it would be a grave travesty that it cannot make traction or lose followers for something as simple as proper DLC update.

@Vern

Tony was replying specifically to my subject matter of user database pre-conditions rather than feature changes. The 3rd of your 3 examples would fall into that subject.

Much of what has been mentioned is in your face, doesn't need "steps" to reproduce. Three examples...
 
Last edited:
Cornish Mainline and Branches, tried 3 locomotives, same issue: they instantly stop and get stuck, their wheels spinning, at these places (at the beginning of the bridge on second screenshot):


g41eo.jpg


VpmLV.jpg
 
There are no missing dependencies in a clean install with the DRG package. I suggest you uninstall the route and reinstall.
Hi Tony & Team,

The DRG package is an engine, not a route. I *have* uninstalled / reinstalled with same result.

Suggestions?

Thanks,
Diego
 
Hi Tony & Team,
The DRG package is an engine, not a route. I *have* uninstalled / reinstalled with same result.
Suggestions?

Thanks,
Diego
Hello!

That is an interesting problem. I had problems with the Japan DLC, which vanished after that DLC was upgraded and redownloaded. I too have the Reichsbahn 05 train DLC, but throughout the updates it kept on functioning. I am not sure if it is the Train DLC which makes the problem, but another DLC you have. When my Japan DLC was broken, the defective dependencies broke further stuff, among them several Trains, free and payware ones. I could imagine there is a defective dependency from somewhere else, which haywires the DRG DLC. Maybe this helps finding the culprit.
 
Thanks HPL - tasks raised for QA to check your reports. Keep 'em coming.

dgallina - I meant "session + loco" rather than route - slip of the tongue.

After uninstalling, did you do a db repair? (This is required to update your db)

To be safe, I would also suggest deleting your /cache folder so that you definitely get the new package downloaded.

Also please confirm that it installs /sc476 and /sc476p, and that in those folders, you see "asset-libraries-99303".

Last but not least, check the /476p/content folder has 26 items inside (which includes your missing items).
 
Thanks HPL - tasks raised for QA to check your reports. Keep 'em coming.

dgallina - I meant "session + loco" rather than route - slip of the tongue.

After uninstalling, did you do a db repair? (This is required to update your db)

To be safe, I would also suggest deleting your /cache folder so that you definitely get the new package downloaded.

Also please confirm that it installs /sc476 and /sc476p, and that in those folders, you see "asset-libraries-99303".

Last but not least, check the /476p/content folder has 26 items inside (which includes your missing items).

Hi Again,

I have just now executed each of those steps and it does still fail the same way with the unknown dependencies I'd mentioned before.

/sc476 is created and has the asset library noted
/sc476p is not created and of course has no content :)

Thanks again,
Diego
 
Back
Top