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Thread: The AI mechanism never ceases to amaze me.

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Driver_Col View Post
    Establishing train priorities does not necessarily mean that a Priority 1 train will over-rule a Priority 3 train!
    It is a common misconception that Priority levels indicate the "importance" of a train. They merely indicate which paths a train should take. See http://online.ts2009.com/mediaWiki/i...iority_Markers
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  2. #32
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    And the "Train Priority" markers usually do not work at all, and your trains end up following another undesired path, and if you create a new session, all the Train Priority markers reset themselves to the default setting, prority 2.
    My apologies to all. I have decided that in these horrible current events, we all need to stick together as a Community

  3. #33
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    Not in my experience, but I will give them a test run in the new TRS19 SP1 beta when I get back to my computer.
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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Driver_Col View Post
    I have been playing around with AI for quite some time now, and have to workaround the following scenarios.
    If a train approaches a junction without any directives, it will take the left track. (Use feathers to correct)
    If a train is held at a signal for excessive time, it will start looking for a way around the signal. (Direction markers are partially successful in resolving)
    If a train is in push mode, it often has trouble following directives (Attach invisible loco to the train rear).
    If a train is desperate to find its way around an issue, even track direction markers won't stop it!
    Establishing train priorities does not necessarily mean that a Priority 1 train will over-rule a Priority 3 train!
    The end result is that AIs can usually be made to follow a desired schedule, but it is not straight forward! Regards. Colin.
    Even with a directive (Drive To specified track mark on a right-hand siding and a direction marker pointed right at them on the left mainline, my AI boys still like to take the left track if there is another train close by on that siding). I had to rig my special TMS rule to bend them to my will finally. TMS is my "feathers to correct" in this case.

    AI was never really intelligently designed in our game. Those with at least a masters in traffic engineering and/or railroad science should oversee future Trainz projects.

    My guess is that Trainz has limited funding for serious R and D. It is just a PC game after all. A tech toy. Millions of dollars must be spent on software and hardware that controls real autonomous vehicles (BART in San Francisco, transit trains, subways) carrying real living people. The UP yard in Roseville, California has had unmanned locomotives running about this yard at least as early as the year 2011.
    Last edited by JonMyrlennBailey; December 16th, 2019 at 03:43 AM.
    TANE SP2 Build 90945, downloaded Dec. 2017, TS12 Build 61388, downloaded Feb. 2018, American citizen, Lawton, OK

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by pware View Post
    Not in my experience, but I will give them a test run in the new TRS19 SP1 beta when I get back to my computer.
    Interested to see your results. The "trigger" for me was to save a Session. Upon restarting a saved session, the locos Priority had reverted to 2. Seem to recall the same scenario also reverts coach liveries back to their default. i.e. any customizing appears to be lost when a Session has been saved. Regards. Colin.

  6. #36
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    I just ran some tests:-


    1. set the train priority level to 1
    2. started it on an AI run in Driver
    3. saved the Driver Session (Game)
    4. exited Driver
    5. loaded the saved Driver Session (Game) and it resumed from its save point
    6. checked the priority level of the train and it was still level 1.


    I do now recall hearing some time ago that this was a bug but whether it was fixed recently in TRS19 SP1 (non Plus) beta 104930 (or earlier) I do not know but "fixed" it seems to be.

    EDIT: I tested it again in TRS19 build 100240 and again the Priority level was restored after saving and reloading a Driver Session (Game).
    Last edited by pware; December 16th, 2019 at 06:24 AM. Reason: addendum
    TRS19 Platinum 105100 - TRS19 SP1 (standard) 105096 - TANE SP4 105766

  7. #37
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    When I first started running AI driven trains I was downright amazed at how AI drivers would want to 'shortcut' through a maze of rusty industrial sidings with a speed limit of 5 mph instead of taking the open and clear mainline route right in front of them. Being a UK pre-grouping modeller facing crossovers are rare on my lines so I don't have too many problems with the AI idiots wanting to switch tracks for no reason at all, but I still need to sow 'go-this-way-you-idiot' trackmarks at the major junction stations if I want things to run smoothly.
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  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by pware View Post
    I just ran some tests:-


    1. set the train priority level to 1
    2. started it on an AI run in Driver
    3. saved the Driver Session (Game)
    4. exited Driver
    5. loaded the saved Driver Session (Game) and it resumed from its save point
    6. checked the priority level of the train and it was still level 1.


    I do now recall hearing some time ago that this was a bug but whether it was fixed recently in TRS19 SP1 (non Plus) beta 104930 (or earlier) I do not know but "fixed" it seems to be.

    EDIT: I tested it again in TRS19 build 100240 and again the Priority level was restored after saving and reloading a Driver Session (Game).
    Hmmm .... interesting. I am now on Build 100240 so I will have to revisit the customizing aspects of Sessions. Many thanks for taking the time on this issue. Regards. Colin.

  9. #39
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    On my experience, the priority setting on locos stay as set even if you save many times. Only time I for sure will lose it is when the consist goes into a portal. Remember that logically what comes out of these is not the same as what went in.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Driver_Col View Post
    Hmmm .... interesting. I am now on Build 100240 so I will have to revisit the customizing aspects of Sessions. Many thanks for taking the time on this issue. Regards. Colin.
    My test did produce consistency in the area of Priority in the loco but, interestingly enough, customization options in rolling stock were not so lucky! Using andi06's LNER 61ft coaching stock. They are configured with a default livery, and also some alternative liveries. If I select an alternate livery, then after saving and reopening the Session, the coach has reverted to default livery (TRS19 Build 100240). There is a simple workaround though.When determining the desired livery, then change the default livery to match!

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by KotangaGirl View Post
    When I first started running AI driven trains I was downright amazed at how AI drivers would want to 'shortcut' through a maze of rusty industrial sidings with a speed limit of 5 mph instead of taking the open and clear mainline route right in front of them. Being a UK pre-grouping modeller facing crossovers are rare on my lines so I don't have too many problems with the AI idiots wanting to switch tracks for no reason at all, but I still need to sow 'go-this-way-you-idiot' trackmarks at the major junction stations if I want things to run smoothly.
    Very well said. This has been my experience as well. It really frosted my cookies the first time I saw my crack express passenger train head down the crooked and rusty branch instead of staying on the mainline. The issue is the driver "sees" the bad track as the shortest way between two points due to the junctions even if they don't appear that way to us.

    I use Drive via and Navigate via track mark commands in those places where there are going to be issues. Placing a track mark in the beginning, just as a section begins, in the middle, and then at the end really helps. Using the Drive via, and not the Navigate via, they AI will tend to wait and the drive command is more specific. Navigate will mean they will find the shortest way between two points and do stupid things, but the Drive version means do this with no faffing around!

    I do the same with wye-type junctions (triangle-junctions). Without direction the AI, the driver will take the wrong leg of the wye and end up doing a back up move that's beyond explanation. To avoid this idiot move, I place 6 track-marks. One before and after each leg on the mainline side plus one on the middle, and then one on each branch, plus one at the very end on the branch its self.

    I then direct the AI to drive via track marks through the junction and they don't do the backup, reverse, get stuck, turn around, get stuck again, and then proceed after I untangle them move.

    Where there are crossovers, I will either place direction markers as one-way signs to prevent the AI from randomly crossing over, and in these areas only I do the manual moves. In other places I will use the direction markers and sometimes track marks to keep the AI on their respective routes if I need them to take the crossovers to a branch or siding.

    After doing this for about 16 years, I now anticipate what the AI might do in a particular area. This experience helps with setting up driver command-schedules.
    John
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  12. #42
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    AI will invent it's own shortest path, that AI deduces as being the shortest path, unless you block undesired paths with track directional markers, pointing them towards oncoming trains that will surely take an undesired path/crossover

    You must outsmart AI, by fooling AI at it's own game
    Last edited by MP242; December 16th, 2019 at 12:45 PM.
    My apologies to all. I have decided that in these horrible current events, we all need to stick together as a Community

  13. #43
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    What causes "No path to selected destination" message/failure? I received this somewhat a distance away but "navigated" to a TM close by with no problem. Once at the TM I'm literally 6 engine lengths away from my original destination (a station) and I still get "No path to selected destination."
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  14. #44
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    Usually a missing/misadjusted turnout lever
    My apologies to all. I have decided that in these horrible current events, we all need to stick together as a Community

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by llebrez View Post
    On my experience, the priority setting on locos stay as set even if you save many times. Only time I for sure will lose it is when the consist goes into a portal. Remember that logically what comes out of these is not the same as what went in.
    One workaround for this would be to add the Priorityz driver command, with the correct priority level set, to the driver command bar immediately after the Drive/Navigate To <portal name> command.
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