.
Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 64

Thread: The AI mechanism never ceases to amaze me.

  1. #16
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    2,734
     

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pware View Post
    Interlocking Towers and Train Control Blocks would achieve much the same thing. There is a staff/token system, that includes working mechanical staff machines and staff ticket boxes, that is designed for use in Trainz but it is cosmetic only - it has no control over junctions and signals.
    Thanks pware. My GER layout is in TS2012 so I can't use interlocking towers unfortunately. I do have plans to move it over to TANE, but with so many custom assets I've modded myself on the layout it's going to be a bit of a nightmare.

    That cosmetic staff/token system sounds interesting though and I might check that out just for the fun of it.
    Narcolepsy is not napping.



  2. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Location
    Quarantining Since March 1st In Front Of My PC
    Posts
    857
     

    Default

    I must say that AI gives me absolutely no problems whatsoever at all, and I am overall perfectly satisfied with AI operations (as I mostly drive manually), But when using "Drive", AI functions exceptionally (as I have become an AI professional, forcing AI to do exactly as I want it to operate, by "Fooling AI" with outside the box thinking)
    Last edited by MP242; December 13th, 2019 at 07:39 PM.
    My apologies to all. I have decided that in these horrible current events, we all need to stick together as a Community

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    2,734
     

    Default

    I have all the passenger services running on AI controlled schedules, but I drive all the goods trip workings myself. This means that like a real world engine driver I have to be aware of the timetable and work accordingly between the scheduled trains. Having my layout correctly signalled helps a lot with this.
    Narcolepsy is not napping.



  4. #19
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    United States of America, Oklahoma, Lawton
    Posts
    1,560
    Blog Entries
    5
     

    Talking

    Quote Originally Posted by JCitron View Post
    Yes this issue seems to have vanished. Note the word seems. From my testing I haven't run into that, but then again anything is possible to reoccur with AI drivers. You know how that goes.

    If N3V fixed it, it's most likely through fixing other things such as the code threading issues which plagued TS12 and below. These threads are data communications going on with various parts of the program that interact with signals, update AI positions, control what track marks do, switch positions, and other things. If these threads are bogged down, the AI can and do weird things. It's like having a stuck key on a keyboard with stuff in the buffer. If we wait long enough, we'll get a bunch of stuff in the command queue and then all the data is streamed at once. This issue causes stutters as well. Through code changes, as well as the 64-bit program code, we now have a much more efficient program so that issue doesn't appear as often if not at all.

    One way around this issue in general is to delay the AI trains a bit so they don't drive as close to each other. I've run into this issue a few times which drove me absolutely nuts. I had two trams (trolleys) running one after another. One driver took the mainline back to Gloucester station while the other headed to Western Avenue. The tram that was supposed to take the Gloucester mainline followed quite close behind the Western Avenue tram. Occasionally the one taking the Western Avenue branch caused the following tram taking Gloucester to not flip the junction and he would get lost. It so happened one day I caught the action in front of me and I was able to see why the idiot driver ended up heading to Western Avenue and on to West Gloucester to turn around, or spend the rest of his career backing up and turning around and causing an awful traffic tie up. The solution was quite simple. I delayed the start time of the Gloucester mainline tram by about 10 seconds on start up. That's all it took to offset that driver from going down the wrong branch.

    John, J Citron:

    Reinstalling TS 2012 did NOT resolve the AI junction goof that is the subject of the thread. I pulled my hair out for several hours trying to figure out how to fool these idiots then it clicked! The good ol' Trigger Multiple Signals Rule. You, see, AI doesn't want to follow another train onto this siding if this lead train too close ahead so I was happy to oblige. I rigged up track triggers on the very long siding (about six miles) and an absolute signal right before the switch points. The switch diverges here. If there is another train within a mile down the siding, the following train will be put on hold until the lead train clears this mile-long gap. Track triggers have a range limit of 500 meters, so I used several in tandem to get a total range coverage of about a mile down this siding. Pretty clever, ay? Trigger Multiple Signals can be used with a single signal controlled by several triggers to boot in spite of its namesake. Now, the following train confidently flips the mainline turnout lever to a red state after a several minute wait at the signal if necessary and then goes down the proper siding as he should once he gets a green or a yellow. No more excuses to roll down the wrong branch missing the turnout. You just have to be smarter to a greater degree than AI is stupid to beat them.


    Update later: a space (following gap) of 3,000 meters down the siding is overkill, though. I just reduced the siding trigger zone to a mere 1,000 meters , 0.62 miles, so following trains may only have to wait to up to less than a minute at the "gate signal" a couple hundred feet behind the junction points before proceeding down the correct branch once and for all. My gate signal is the one controlled by the TMS Rule and controls movement past this junction based upon whether there is a leading train close on the siding diverging to the right. If the siding is clear at least 1,000 meters down, the gate signal will be green and approaching trains can just roll down this siding non stop. No AI train is ever intended by me to take the mainline past this junction anyway. They are always to be diverted down the siding. Only my hand-driven vehicles may use the mainline branch here. I don't have to stop my hand-driven train on any red here and wait since I know this special signal is only to circumvent AI stupidity. There is just enough gap on the siding now so any lead train is far enough down to make the following approaching AI train ready, willing and able to take this siding without acting balky and miss the intended turnout. It's as if the lead train down the siding is "locking" the lever behind itself for a certain distance.

    This very long siding is in the staging area of the route as it is a model RR layout. This siding acts as a train dispenser that is timed-release. Every 20 minutes a new train (variously a steam passenger excursion, a modern diesel passenger, a classic diesel passenger, a MOW truck, a mixed freight or a unit freight with both modern and classic d/e locos) is released from here to travel the loop of the layout then return to this holding siding. Trains are in the AI mode with their own respective command-line schedules and drivers. Some freight trains are even commanded to change their freight loads each run of the mainline loop while waiting in staging. This way, my BN piggy-back trailer train will get a fresh new assortment of differently-marked trailers for each and every go-round. This action effectively mimics what human hands do in a fiddle room. Passenger trains are scheduled to stop at the passenger station downtown. Steam trains make scheduled water stops along the way. Trains line up, stack up, here single file. There is a track mark from where the lead train is released once it's "on deck". Each successive train is given a Wait For command of 20 minutes upon moving up to the standby track mark. This way a train passes the layout circuit about every 20 minutes. Steam excursion passenger trains, because they are less common and rather special, are held for an additional 30 minutes in the staging yard before advancing to the holding siding from which they are then released to make a trip around the layout. It's more or less like the roller coaster rides at an amusement park. Trains line up at the loading platform to take on new passengers before completing their loop then return to line up again and discharge old riders. Continuous repetitive action. This is a two-track/two-way layout mainline system so there is a separate staging yard and holding siding for each direction of the route. Yes, folks, I have a "Disneylandized" philosophy to Trainz route design and building. I could use the Portal assets and train emission for periodic train generation, but those trains are random and don't look as nice as regular rolling stock placed on the track using the Trains tab in Surveyor. I am fussy about the consist makeup and the engines used. I like a lot of color, sound, action, variety and diversity. I like to see every rivet on my locos!
    Last edited by JonMyrlennBailey; December 14th, 2019 at 11:02 PM.
    TANE SP2 Build 90945, downloaded Dec. 2017, TS12 Build 61388, downloaded Feb. 2018, American citizen, Lawton, OK

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Australia, NSW, Sydney
    Posts
    6,722
    Blog Entries
    3
     

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JonMyrlennBailey View Post
    Track triggers have a range limit of 500 meters, so I used several in tandem to get a total range coverage of about a mile down this siding. Pretty clever, ay? Trigger Multiple Signals can be used with a single signal controlled by several triggers to boot in spite of its namesake.
    It is not necessary to use a line of triggers, all set to 500m, to get the coverage of about a mile down a track. A single trigger, with its default radius of 20m, will do the job. That one trigger can be used to set a signal using the Set Signals Extended Rule or the Trigger Multiple Signals Rule (if you must), 1 mile or 100's of miles away. The signal, switch, or whatever, will remain set until it is cancelled by another trigger placed somewhere else.

    Screenshot 1 - Using Trigger Multiple Signals Rule



    Screenshot 2 - using the Trigger Check Rule and the Set Signal Extended Rule



    In either case only a single trigger is needed.
    TRS19 Platinum 105100 - TRS19 SP1 (standard) 105096 - TANE SP4 105766

  6. #21
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    2,071
     

    Default

    Hi Anne

    What I would like to see in Trainz is an instruction equivalent to having the staff/tablet for a section so that the AI driver who has it has full control of the section until the staff/tablet is surrendered at the end of the section.
    I have been using a system of variables to achieve this with the AI for at least 10 years. Once you understand how variables work it is quite easy to implement and it is even possible to have trains traveling in the same direction follow one another into a long single line section that has intermediate signals along it.

    If this interests you then let me know and I can expand on it for you.

    Regards

    Brian

  7. #22
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    United States of America, California, Port Hueneme
    Posts
    1,908
     

    Default

    A tutorial on variables, or where to find it would help many of us. Thank you.

  8. #23
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Australia, NSW, Sydney
    Posts
    6,722
    Blog Entries
    3
     

    Default

    There is one, that gives sample applications, at http://online.ts2009.com/mediaWiki/i...ons_(Examples)
    TRS19 Platinum 105100 - TRS19 SP1 (standard) 105096 - TANE SP4 105766

  9. #24
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    2,734
     

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kennilworth View Post
    Hi Anne



    I have been using a system of variables to achieve this with the AI for at least 10 years. Once you understand how variables work it is quite easy to implement and it is even possible to have trains traveling in the same direction follow one another into a long single line section that has intermediate signals along it.

    If this interests you then let me know and I can expand on it for you.

    Regards

    Brian
    Thank you very much Brian. Forgive me for not replying sooner, but I've been having more problems with sleepiness just lately. I think variables would be a useful thing for me to learn about so please do explain more about it.
    Narcolepsy is not napping.



  10. #25
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    2,734
     

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pware View Post
    There is one, that gives sample applications, at http://online.ts2009.com/mediaWiki/i...ons_(Examples)
    I notice they give an example using the Signal Passed At Danger rule. What I would like is if the AI driver backed up to the correct side of the signal and waited until it cleared like they were supposed to. Waiting two minutes on a single line after illegally leaving a passing loop and then completely blocking traffic is not exactly a useful thing to do.
    Narcolepsy is not napping.



  11. #26
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Australia, NSW, Sydney
    Posts
    6,722
    Blog Entries
    3
     

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KotangaGirl View Post
    What I would like is if the AI driver backed up to the correct side of the signal and waited until it cleared like they were supposed to. Waiting two minutes on a single line after illegally leaving a passing loop and then completely blocking traffic is not exactly a useful thing to do.
    In many systems drivers are not allowed to reverse on a main line. If they do a SPAD then waiting (several minutes) for radio clearance from control before proceeding forward is the norm .
    TRS19 Platinum 105100 - TRS19 SP1 (standard) 105096 - TANE SP4 105766

  12. #27
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    2,734
     

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pware View Post
    In many systems drivers are not allowed to reverse on a main line. If they do a SPAD then waiting (several minutes) for radio clearance from control before proceeding forward is the norm .
    I don't think they had radios in 1913. That's the date of my minor lines GER Norfolk layout by the way. For my period it would be the signalman yelling, 'What the hell do you think you're playing at', or words to that effect and out would come the red and green flags and someone would be sent up the line to lay warning detonators, - and then the engine would shunt slowly back with all signals set at danger until it was back in the passing loop again.

    That is of course so as long as the engine didn't derail itself by running past the signal set at danger and into a set of mechanically locked over points and then there would be a right mess. Operating steam era single line railways is a lot of fun.
    Last edited by KotangaGirl; December 14th, 2019 at 09:33 PM. Reason: spelling
    Narcolepsy is not napping.



  13. #28
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    South Africa, West Cape, Sedgefield
    Posts
    1,095
     

    Default

    Annie - The driver command: Token Management 2 (in the PLL downloads) simulates handing over a token to one driver. Other drivers wanting the same token are forced to wait until the current owner clears the token (which happens automatically in some circumstances).

    There is a companion Token Management rule (TMR) that adds functionality to the command.

    Best Regards - Trevor

  14. #29
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    2,734
     

    Default

    Thank you very much Trevor that sounds exactly what I'm looking for.
    Narcolepsy is not napping.



  15. #30
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Canada, Ontario, Oakville
    Posts
    1,978
     

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KotangaGirl View Post
    Thank you very much Brian. Forgive me for not replying sooner, but I've been having more problems with sleepiness just lately. I think variables would be a useful thing for me to learn about so please do explain more about it.
    I have been playing around with AI for quite some time now, and have to workaround the following scenarios.
    If a train approaches a junction without any directives, it will take the left track. (Use feathers to correct)
    If a train is held at a signal for excessive time, it will start looking for a way around the signal. (Direction markers are partially successful in resolving)
    If a train is in push mode, it often has trouble following directives (Attach invisible loco to the train rear).
    If a train is desperate to find its way around an issue, even track direction markers won't stop it!
    Establishing train priorities does not necessarily mean that a Priority 1 train will over-rule a Priority 3 train!
    The end result is that AIs can usually be made to follow a desired schedule, but it is not straight forward! Regards. Colin.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •