Starting to work on sessions

I'm working on cleaning up the BC&SJ (the 100 miles I have so far). Currently I'm cleaning up scenery, finishing towns, and adding signals.

Soon I'll be trying to set up some session stuff. I've found some documentation on sessions in the Trainz Wiki but it looks like a vertical cliff to digest it all and do something useful. Are there any good tutorials out there that make session building more approachable?

For example, what is a Track Mark and how does one place them (or are the automatically placed)?

Should signals be under the route layer or the session layer.

I've tried installing signals on the following (crude ascii art) double track location. They behave in one direction, but are red all the time in the other. All turnouts are lined for the main tracks (crossovers not taken):
(S) indicates a two head signal. (A) approach signal two heads.


-----------A------------S--T---------T--S----------------A-------- current of traffic --->
\ /
\ /
-----------A------------S-----T---T-----S----------------A-------- <-- current of traffic

I apologize if this is a screwy signal installation as I know little about signalling. I've always made a point of running a "dark" model railroad - no signals, feeling that it puts more "skin in the game" for the operators. My current HO scale layout uses Time Table & Train Order operation where the only signals are Train Order Signals at the open stations. Previously I used Track Warrants.

Is such a signal configuration beyond what Trainz can handle automatically? The signals seem to work when running left to right (on the upper track).

Prototype would be Espee in the '50s / '60s. I'd love to find some lower quadrant Espee semaphores but am not holding my breath.

Enquiring minds want to know,

Horace Fithers

I suggest you consider the "Philskene method" of session creation. After you set up the trains and industries, just do a narrative of what to do in the session. A huge savings in time over navigation balloons, staged session rules, etc. Also, unlikely to be errors in the aforementioned.

Sessions really aren't that hard, and signals are a must and more so if you include any AI trains. I suggest you also look at how someone else has built a session, and start small. Trackmarks won't place themselves and after-all that's how you show someone where to take there train. I am just completing a 6 hour session, but like I said, start small. I have made 30+ sessions and I don't use interlocking towers, but I also only use TANE so if you're making it in TRS19 I'm probably no help!

horacefithers said:

For example, what is a Track Mark and how does one place them (or are the automatically placed)?

Click to expand...

Refer to this Trainz Wiki page - http://online.ts2009.com/mediaWiki/index.php/How_to_Use_Track_Markers

There is, if you have not already found it, an entire section of the Trainz Wiki "How To" guides devoted to various aspects of creating sessions as well as routes. http://online.ts2009.com/mediaWiki/index.php/HowTo#Content_Creation:_Sessions

You might find this article useful.

https://forums.auran.com/trainz/entry.php?951-Using-the-Trainz-AI-in-sessions-Part-1

https://forums.auran.com/trainz/entry.php?951-Using-the-Trainz-AI-in-sessions-Part-1&goto=next

Also:

Use the Schedule Library rule and related Copy Commands from driver command.

With this rule, you can divide up pre-setup driver command sets into groups, aka divisions. Then when you setup the drivers you simply insert Copy Commands From (choose schedule), followed by Copy Command From (choose Insert schedule), repeat, rinse, and repeat.

RE: Sessions... I've only done one session (Kickstarter 2) and I can tell you that it gets extremely frustrating. I learned simply by looking at existing sessions. 80% was easy and straightforward, 20% no so much. Where I "lost it" was when I found how someone loaded one commodity and I wanted to load a different commodity and use animated boxcars with sliding doors. All the while making sure everything was built in or on DLS. It really isn't difficult to setup... it just took a long time to gather and digest what I needed to do to accomplish one small task. There was another instance in the Kickstarter 2 yard that I had to use Extended Signal rule to get a signal to green. Again.. a long time spent for one little job. Of course, it's all learning and once you know, you know.

I have become a lover of the "narrative" style (philskene) and it doesn't make me guess what someone else was trying to make me do but failed so miserably in directing. Speaking for myself, a good "narrative" style with actions that require you plan and think are really interesting. (iE: having to do run-arounds, breaking consists so things fit at short drop-off points, etc etc). Navigation icons and such ruin the experience for me.... So I did my session with pop-up instructions based on track marks but I supplied no navigation icons and randomly set junctions.

Regarding Track Marks: see next post for correction

1611mac said:

Regarding Track Marks: They are used to trigger events. For instance when your train runs over a Track Mark (placed in Surveyor) it can trigger an AI train for you to meet just down the line... or it can trigger a pop-up instruction... or most anything.

Click to expand...

Just a correction. It is Track Triggers (commonly just called "Triggers") that are used to trigger AI events (driver commands and session rules). Track Marks are mostly used as destinations for Drive and Navigate commands and can also be used for Navigation Points (I luv 'em) and for the Couple At Trackmark driver command.

pware said:

Just a correction. It is Track Triggers (commonly just called "Triggers") that are used to trigger AI events (driver commands and session rules). Track Marks are mostly used as destinations for Drive and Navigate commands and can also be used for Navigation Points (I luv 'em) and for the Couple At Trackmark driver command.

Click to expand...

Opps, yep... I have corrected my post. If it were morning I'd blame things on not enough coffee (I do know the difference... wasn't thinking!) Good catch pware. Thanks

I would be a fan of the narrative style if it were possible to either 1) have AI trains running in the background, or 2) do a multi-player session where all trains are run by players.

So, is it possible to combine narrative and AI trains?

I run op sessions on my HO scale layout with up to 20 guys in the train room. There's a dispatcher, a couple of train order operators, two yard masters, and up to 7 road crews running at once.

Freight is forwarded with CC&WB (car cards and way bills) - see




The South Jackson yardmaster at work. The rack next to his right hand holds the car cards for each car in his yard (each box holds the cards for cars on a specific track.
There's a train line up and yard master cheat sheet on top of the yet-to-be-finished Milling building.

Each car card has a pocket that can hold a way bill (a slip of paper identifying that car's current destination. Between sessions the waybills get flipped to the next destination.
I don't use computer generated switch lists - either they are extremely persnickety which with real world mishaps (car not delivered, car not picked up, car sent to RIP track, etc.) make it rather painful to use them.


There can be a lot of stuff happening at once during an op session - and nary a flag hanging over a train. Junction City on the left, Oakhill top right, and
Redland lower right (the land down under).

As I mentioned before, I use Time Table and Train Order operation. In this style everyone on the railroad has an employee time table which lists the schedule for each "regular" train (there are "extra" trains not listed in the timetable).
The dispatcher issues (optional) train orders to each train "No. 203 meet Extra 71 West at Junction City" or "Eng SP 5327 run extra from Oakhill to Bear Creek" for example.
A regular train's schedule in the timetable lists the departure time for that train at each station. Less important trains use that (timetable) information, any train orders they may possess, special instructions/bulletins, and the rule book
to determine whether it is safe for them to advance to the next station. If a higher priority train leaves a station early, they are likely to meet another train somewhere in a cornfield (head on collision), because the lower priority train's
crew will be thinking they have more time to advance to the next station.

And NO signals in sight except train order signals (which tell crews when there are train orders waiting for them at a station). There is NO direct dispatcher/crew communication. It's up to the crews to determine when to go and when to stay (within the rulebook).

I'd love to be able to run a Trainz session like that. So far I've found zero interest in that. I also expect it would be ridiculously complicated to get an AI crew to follow the timetable, train orders, and rule book, so it would most likely
need to be a multi-player session. A station operator would also need to be able to raise/lower his train order semaphore.

Yes, this is a much more complicated way to run an op session than with CTC (Centralized Traffic Control - where crews just follow the green indications down the track) and there are many who much prefer CTC. I prefer the direct hands on decision making involved
TT&TO.

Is anyone interested in TT&TO?

Horace Fithers

For a really good example of "Narrative style" with AI trains see philskenes Port Zyd route (which I love) - it is purely fictional, and "fantasy"- but its loads of fun! Try session 4. There is a main line for AI trains (roughly six at any given time) and then plenty of local trackage for driving. There are short spans where the local shares the main which gives interaction between the two. Download it and try it (with the four sessions).

But you may have little interest in the AI on this route because the AI trains simply come from a portal, run the route, then are consumed. There is no timetable. Many here post that they run complicated AI sessions with dozens of trains. Sadly, I never see such Routes/Sessions for download (that I know if.)

Here it is on YouTube though I don't believe it shows the AI trains much (if at all). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8au8y2B9gRA&t=161s

I'll take a look later on. I'm actually working on the non-virtual railroad tonight (lol)

HF

While I greatly admire Philskene's work (and I wish I had a fraction of his skills) that style of session creation, where all the instructions are placed in an abbreviated text file, can annoy me.

When I first run a newly downloaded session and route I have no idea where anything is, what the industries and cargoes are, and the "rules of the road" so to speak. I am like a newly employed driver going out as the "side-kick" of one of the "old hands" to learn the road. This is where navigation points and popup messages are vital - they provide the "old hand" at the throttle.

Take my TGR Fingal Sessions, for example. Some of those sessions were identical copies but with two or three levels of difficulty.

1. A basic level with many navigation points and popup messages - these are intended as training guides for "novices" to get to know the route.
2. An expert level with no navigation points and no popup messages apart from one screen full of information at the start of the session describing the tasks that have to be performed. This screen can be accessed again at any time
3. Some had an Advanced level which sat somewhere between the two. This was for the longer and more complex sessions.

The Basic level sessions took forever to create - almost as long as creating the route itself. Most of the time was spent on programming the sequence of rules, testing, debugging and "cussin". The Expert level sessions took almost no time by comparison - just create and tweak the web page.

I can see why there are so many more routes on the DLS than there are sessions.

pware said:

While I greatly admire Philskene's work (and I wish I had a fraction of his skills) that style of session creation, where all the instructions are placed in an abbreviated text file, can annoy me.

When I first run a newly downloaded session and route I have no idea where anything is, what the industries and cargoes are, and the "rules of the road" so to speak. I am like a newly employed driver going out as the "side-kick" of one of the "old hands" to learn the road. This is where navigation points and popup messages are vital - they provide the "old hand" at the throttle.
-snip-

Click to expand...

I agree.. but it does force one take some time and learn and plan from the map. Nav icons do just ruin the experience for me and you really can't tell where they are until you get right up on them. In fact, if in a yard and similar I have to stop driving and "fly up" to the icon to double check where it is actually sitting at. They are especially deceiving when curves are involved. In fact, I've actually taken the wrong track going to where the icon was only to find that it deceived me because of slightly curving track way up ahead where it was located.

Nav icons should have a vertical line from them that extents down to the actual track it's located on.

I personally prefer an "overview" in the initial message box so I know generally what I'll be doing, and then specific directional popups at the appropriate times, and well enough ahead that you can plan a bit. I'm running some sessions now where you get a popup telling you to load at the next facility but if you are running track speed you cannot possibly stop before passing the industry and it's junction.

I've often thought how great it would be if every route came with an AI session where a loco stopped at each industry and a message box was your "tour guide" giving you products produced and consumed, etc. I've actually played with doing that (strictly for self) for Port Zyd and I run AI sessions on my Win10 machine while I do other things on my Macs. (My work machines.) It's a great way to learn a route "in your spare time."

There are so many aspects to this game... that's what makes it so immersive and interesting.

pware... I'm going to have to grab some of your sessions and check them out...

Edit: That's funny... just started your TGR AI session and it does just what I said above... a tour guide session!

Interesting read. I have to agree with Pware, a big text box and maybe a map of yards just makes for hard work trying to figure out where to go. I want to enjoy a session and be clearly shown. I have enough work in making a route (been a full year on current one) and making sessions myself. I believe there was a remark about not knowing which track to follow if it's on a bend and the trackmark guide is therefore misleading. Hit #4 and go to roaming view, run up ahead and confirm, and return to engine. Simple. Now I lived in Tassie for 8 years and know Conara well, so I downloaded your TANE version of the Fingal line Pware. However, every time I try to load a saved session (2), it causes a CTD! Tried this last 2 days, did a database rebuild, and still cashes. Any ideas?

Alikiwi said:

However, every time I try to load a saved session (2), it causes a CTD! Tried this last 2 days, did a database rebuild, and still cashes. Any ideas?

Click to expand...

I assume that by "saved session" you mean a saved driver game? Session 2 is the "St Marys Night Passenger Drive" session.

I have just run the session (the initial part at least) in TANE with a couple of game saves at different points. They all reloaded and resumed without any problems. I used TANE build 102323.

Peter

Does anyone have an example (screenshot) of the GUI that was used in the SCS Session Creation System??

Dave

Actually Session 1 and 4, if that makes any difference. My TANE build is 94916.

Hi Horace,

Check out the Youtube channel of Rudysmodelrailway. He has some Trainz tutorial videos from several years ago and they are pretty good at explaining the items you asked about. Also there is a Navpoints Demo route on the DLS with 2 sessions that show how navpoints work and how to set them up.

There is no reason you can't use the same system in Trainz that you use on the model railroad. I use Shenware's Waybill program to make the waybills I use on different routes.

To use multiplayer mode, your route and all assets and rolling stock it uses MUST be on the DLS. Or at least that was the rule when I messed with MP. Every operator must have a Trainz username and a copy of the game.

William

Alikiwi said:

Actually Session 1 and 4, if that makes any difference. My TANE build is 94916.

Click to expand...

I just ran some tests with Session 1 (<kuid:45176:100576> TGR Fingal Session 1: St Marys Day Mixed Passenger RIDE Version) and Session 4 (<kuid2:45176:100063:1> TGR Fingal Session 4: Conara Mixed Goods BASIC Version - there is also a Session 4A Advanced and Session 4E Expert which I did not test). For each I started the session and then later saved the Driver game, exited TANE, restarted TANE and loaded and restarted the Driver Games. In each case the games resumed correctly and there were no CTDs.

CTDs can often be caused by faulty assets (and not always those that are in the Route/Session being used). My TANE build is 102323.

The first sessions I made were modifying the built in C&O Hintion Division sessions. Working in the Hinton Yard required pausing the game, going into the roaming camera and following through the yard switches (and each switch renamed from the original number to an alphanumeric label to help with the routing) to arrive at the correct location, car, etc. Sometimes that process had to be done numerous times for verification. In my sessions, the driver must do all the switch throws (no hand-holding with my sessions) so the gamer will probably end up doing the same thing as I did with the set of switch names in order to find their way in the yard rat maze. With time, one gets somewhat familiar with the yard layout but one can also end up frustrated.

Another thing I also did in my sessions, contray to the original sessions, was to put yard speed limits at about half of the original 40 mph. From my investigations using track charts of real yards, the speed limits rarely exceed 20-25 mph. Exceed those speeds in the yard by a set amount and the session ends (yes, I did it several times in testing). That low speed limit does make the session drag out a bit but, hey, you want a bit of realism there it is with a very simple change to the session.

Take care,