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Thread: Trainz Plus "Release Candidate" 103221 (PC) and 103219 (Mac) are now available

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by HPL View Post
    No, I often use the train tab when driving, and with this method it would end with dozens new sessions in all routes.
    Whereas the previous method would end with dozens of saved games in all routes.

    I'm not sure what your point is, other than that we've moved from calling them "saved games" (when you save a session from driver) and "sessions" (when you save a session from surveyor) to just always calling them "sessions" and letting the user pick whether they want driver or surveyor.

    chris

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by WindWalkr View Post
    Whereas the previous method would end with dozens of saved games in all routes.
    Yes, and easily manageable.

    Quote Originally Posted by WindWalkr View Post
    I'm not sure what your point is, other than that we've moved from calling them "saved games" (when you save a session from driver) and "sessions" (when you save a session from surveyor)
    No, this is not the only modification: saved games are visible in sessions menu, saved sessions are visible in routes menu. With the new method it becomes hard to identify which session is a real session and which is a saved game. In addition, you have to look both routes and sessions menus when you want to resume a saved game. Why make simple things complicated?

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony_Hilliam View Post
    Actually, I think what you're after is quite possible.

    My understanding of what you're trying to do is update the ROUTE, so as long as you're making route layer edits, and you choose Save route, do not save session, you'll have exactly what you're after.

    1. Start with a route with a loop track and single loco in "12 o'clock" on the route.
    2. Drive Session, switch to Surveyor, paint the terrain, raise the terrain, add new track, new signals, new scenery
    3. You can either have the train paused while doing the edits or not - that's up to you.
    4. Switch back to driver
    5. Train is now at 6 o'clock and you're done editing and driving
    6. Exit and Save > Overwrite existing route + Do not save session.
    7. From the menu, Drive session again.
    8. You loco is where you want it, and your route layer edits are maintained.

    I've updated the wiki page with a [hopefully] clearer picture of what was meant about the Save new option.

    Or, if you don't want to lose the "original start position" for the session, then choose "Create a New Session"
    NOTE: This means you now have two sessions saved - the old one has the original start positions, and the new one has the current saved positions.
    Tony, Thanks for your response. I think this does what I want. One main point that needs emphasized is that in item 2 in your instructions all the additions and changes must be to the route level. Otherwise they do not get changed. So for instance when you normally add trees or splines they are assigned to the session level, not to the route level. So what I end up doing, which is fine for me, is merging everything into the route level before following your save instructions.

    I will try this out on some of my larger routes and hopefully it will solve my issue. Thanks again.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by HPL View Post
    No, this is not the only modification: saved games are visible in sessions menu, saved sessions are visible in routes menu.
    I'm not sure what you're referring to here. Both saved games and sessions are visible once you select a specific route (which I assume is what you mean by the "sessions menu"). Only routes are visible at the top level.

    Perhaps you've saved a route, rather than a session? That's an entirely different discussion to the one we've been having.

    chris

  5. #35
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    My thoughts on Saving/Editing Sessions in the new Unified system.

    The system was probably originally designed as part of the multiplayer Surveyor concept and works well for editing a route.

    This latest build which eliminates "save games" works fine - just requires the user to rethink the concept of "session". I would like the "Save New Session" if checked to provide the old "save game" naming structure as a default. ie Session Name and date/time. If that was not the user's intention then it is easy to modify it to whatever is wanted.

    I find that using this UDS for debugging a long session is however not very useful. I start with 20+ consists scattered on a large route. Some of these start automatically at the beginning, but most are waiting for triggers to start them up. I start up UDS in driver and drive watching for problems with the various AI trains. I find that a "Set Junctions" rule needs to be modified after running for an hour. I can modifiy this, manually deal with the problem and continue. When I get tired and want to save the changes and select "create new session" the modified session rules are saved, but now many of the consists are no longer in the original locations.

    The only way to replace the session rules in the original session with these modified ones is to copy/paste between the sessions or write the changes on paper and do it in the old way.

    I think there needs to be a series of options for what exactly is to be saved with save session.

    - save new consist locations or keep locations from the start of the current session
    - save modified environment
    - save modified session data like multi industry setup, road crossings etc
    - save modified session rules
    - save new consists (where placed or current location)

    These options could default to the current way a session is saved and be "hidden" behind some warning wall to protect naive users.

    Another preferred modification: If a session is started with Edit Session then it should default to PAUSED. AI trains which are not on screen move and then these altered locations get saved without the user being aware of the problem.

    Glenn

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by PharmboyNorth View Post
    The system was probably originally designed as part of the multiplayer Surveyor concept and works well for editing a route.
    It was designed in isolation actually; the idea has been around in one form or another since the very first version of Trainz but the modern incarnation was designed separately from MPS. Obviously when designing any system, we keep in mind (and to some extent prototype against) other possible future directions and features, but that’s about the extent of the relationship here.


    This latest build which eliminates "save games" works fine - just requires the user to rethink the concept of "session". I would like the "Save New Session" if checked to provide the old "save game" naming structure as a default. ie Session Name and date/time. If that was not the user's intention then it is easy to modify it to whatever is wanted.
    That’s definitely under consideration. We were considering this for the current beta but there were some unanswered questions about how things would be received so we wanted to get the current state teated as-is before making further changes.


    I find that using this UDS for debugging a long session is however not very useful. I start with 20+ consists scattered on a large route. Some of these start automatically at the beginning, but most are waiting for triggers to start them up. I start up UDS in driver and drive watching for problems with the various AI trains. I find that a "Set Junctions" rule needs to be modified after running for an hour. I can modifiy this, manually deal with the problem and continue. When I get tired and want to save the changes and select "create new session" the modified session rules are saved, but now many of the consists are no longer in the original locations.

    The only way to replace the session rules in the original session with these modified ones is to copy/paste between the sessions or write the changes on paper and do it in the old way.

    I think there needs to be a series of options for what exactly is to be saved with save session.

    - save new consist locations or keep locations from the start of the current session
    - save modified environment
    - save modified session data like multi industry setup, road crossings etc
    - save modified session rules
    - save new consists (where placed or current location)
    As noted above, we have some ideas in this direction but it’s well beyond the scope of this current update. Consider this as the first step, laying a groundwork for other improvements to come.


    Another preferred modification: If a session is started with Edit Session then it should default to PAUSED. AI trains which are not on screen move and then these altered locations get saved without the user being aware of the problem.
    Sounds reasonable. Thanks for the suggestion.

    chris

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by PharmboyNorth View Post
    My thoughts on Saving/Editing Sessions in the new Unified system.



    Another preferred modification: If a session is started with Edit Session then it should default to PAUSED. AI trains which are not on screen move and then these altered locations get saved without the user being aware of the problem.

    Glenn
    This would be a great improvement. Currently, if you remember, you have to go to the menus and hit pause. Each time you open surveyor the “original state” gets modified slightly which can add up to a lot over time.

  8. #38
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    Experimented the train tab "evolution": I rotated my train in a driver session, and when I wanted to exit I was prompted to save with the only choice of creating a new route and session! Great innovation! As I already wrote, train tab is now ruined and useless in Driver.

  9. #39
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    Was the train on the Session layer or the Route layer? if on the route layer that may account for the only option being to save the route.
    Malc


  10. #40
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    I don't know, and I don't care. The route is built-in, I always used the train tab without hassle and it is now impossible to use it in a driver session since somebody decided to destroy it. Fortunately it is not (yet) broken in T:ANE.

  11. #41
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    Things are moving ahead: I resume a saved driver session, I drive my train, I don't use the train tab, exit and am prompted to save the driver session, everything's OK. Same on two different routes. Then on a third one, still starting from a saved driver session, and still without using the train tab, when I exit I am prompted to create a new session or overwrite the existing one. What the...?

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