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Thread: Tr**n S*m 2020

  1. #1

    Default Tr**n S*m 2020

    D*G has announced the newest 2020 edition of their product, the “new” factor being the inclusion of some new routes and some environment lighting tweaks.

    Expectedly, they haven’t implemented the new visual systems used by Trainz, such as PBR or parallax. Now would be the perfect time for N3V to implement a surge of new features that can be used for leverage against the other sim, as the 2020 version announcement buys some time.

    There is current discussion about the current state of Trainz and content creation, and it seems like the ability to import custom content into TSW is still not here, and would be a long and winding road with steep learning curves anyway. If N3V implements features that content creators and route builders favor, I think that Trainz would be able to quickly get the better end of the stick.

    Eventually creators would have to migrate to either Trainz or TSW, as newer features in either could quickly leave the legacy Train Sim in the past.
    Regards Ron

  2. #2
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    Trainz has Surveyor and DLS - nuff said

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    2020 includes the Brockenhurst to Lymington Pier route, nuff said

  4. #4

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    Well at the risk of repeating earlier thoughts on the matter, if N3V want to compete with DTG on a "simulation" basis...

    1. We need a proper activity/scenario editor in the game, not just chaining commands together in Surveyor.
    2. We need a player driven train to be able to follow a timetable and be checked on performance.
    3. The default state of Driver needs to be that the AI signaller will do all the routing and operate signals etc. to get the player train to its destination.
    4. Full support for different types of braking systems (including vacuum).
    5. Banish the UTC era cabs and sounds from the game.

    Otherwise to all intents and purposes we are still driving model trains in a prototype landscape.
    TRS 2019 Coach Class (Former Customer)

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vern View Post
    1. We need a proper activity/scenario editor in the game, not just chaining commands together in Surveyor.
    If there is something better they can do, I'm game...
    Quote Originally Posted by Vern View Post
    2. We need a player driven train to be able to follow a timetable and be checked on performance.
    I thought we have rules that allow for this?
    Quote Originally Posted by Vern View Post
    3. The default state of Driver needs to be that the AI signaller will do all the routing and operate signals etc. to get the player train to its destination.
    We DO have a few methods to do this. Just gotta tell it to go from "A" to "B" or "C" or....
    Quote Originally Posted by Vern View Post
    4. Full support for different types of braking systems (including vacuum).
    This is a good one
    Quote Originally Posted by Vern View Post
    5. Banish the UTC era cabs and sounds from the game.
    A good spit and polish would be nice on old rusty parts...

    Quote Originally Posted by Vern View Post
    Otherwise to all intents and purposes we are still driving model trains in a prototype landscape.
    For a V-Scale model RR Sim, I'm happy with it. It has enough to give me a fully functioning dynasty.

    These are just my thoughts....
    (-3-)y-~~

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    Railworks is more popular because it has routes based on real railroads and playability. There are 22,000 sessions available on Steam Workshop.

    That is what simmers are looking for, "SIMULATION".

    People even play stone age MSTS/Open Rails for that reason, "SIMULATION". It is not always about graphics.

    The Trainz universe is a limited demographic.

    Railworks looks better out of the box, no adjusting the environment to look good. The initial settings in TRS2019 are dreadful. Always were and always will be.



    Love Trainz but commercially it is a dead end.

    Harold
    Last edited by hminky; September 11th, 2019 at 05:34 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hminky View Post

    Love Trainz but commercially it is a dead end.

    Harold
    I seem to recall people making similar assertions when comparing Trainz 1.3 and MSTS, way back when. Trainz makes it (relatively) easy to create. The longevity of Trainz shows its not just about "SIMULATION".
    Last edited by FootplatePhil; September 11th, 2019 at 05:48 AM.
    Phil
    WeddinNSW V4 for TRS2019 now on the DLS. All my posted screen shots are from a route you can download for free.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FootplatePhil View Post
    I seem to recall people making similar assertions when comparing Trainz 1.3 and MSTS, way back when. Trainz makes it (relatively) easy to create. The longevity of Trainz shows its not just about "SIMULATION".
    But this is 2019 and not way back then, time marches on and paradigms switch.

    And outside the Trainz universe "Simulation" is everything.

    N3V wouldn't need subscriptions to stop bleeding money if there was a market for a "routebuilding/screenshot" game.

    Harold
    Last edited by hminky; September 11th, 2019 at 05:55 AM.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by maruffijd View Post
    If there is something better they can do, I'm game...
    I thought we have rules that allow for this?
    We DO have a few methods to do this. Just gotta tell it to go from "A" to "B" or "C" or....
    This is a good one
    A good spit and polish would be nice on old rusty parts...

    For a V-Scale model RR Sim, I'm happy with it. It has enough to give me a fully functioning dynasty.

    These are just my thoughts....
    1. Locating and chaining arcane rules to set up an activity is no substitute for a one stop system like the MSTS Activity Editor.
    2. Not for player trains you don't, at least again not in a default or easy to use system. The default is still trying to figure out what points you need to switch then DIY.
    3 & 4 - Glad you agree!

    There is no doubt Surveyor is the No.1 route builder of all the sims combined with Transdem and the wealth of DLS content. But you still need to apply a decent driving experience if you want a simulation rather than an emulation of the real thing.
    TRS 2019 Coach Class (Former Customer)

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by hminky View Post
    But this is 2019 and not way back then, time marches on and paradigms switch.

    Harold

    But the example I raised does highlight the dangers of signposting dead ends.
    Phil
    WeddinNSW V4 for TRS2019 now on the DLS. All my posted screen shots are from a route you can download for free.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FootplatePhil View Post
    But the example I raised does highlight the dangers of signposting dead ends.
    When I bought Trainz in 2009 there were 4800 active members on the forum now there are 1779. Last year at this time there were 1900 members active.

    For what was once a community based game that is not a good sign.

    Harold

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    Anyone remember Stopgap and Stopgap 2 from UTC days? Or SCS and SCS2006? I spent hundreds of hours on the Razorback Railway running scenarios. The issue with the session system is the timing of rules is not really precise. It is very easy for a session to get out of sync. The session creation contest a few years ago highlighted how a session could work perfectly on the creator's PC but not work when it is given to others.

    William

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    22,000 sessions
    wow, these are all first class? Do they have a random element built-in? For how many routes? Are they locked?
    So now graphics are not important and it's only about SIMULATION?
    Personally, I like that any route can be built in Trainz by anyone with enough time and skill. And then being able to edit them to my tastes and not how someone else thinks it should look.


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    TRS19 build 100240 and 103369 Win10 Pro 64 bit, i7-7700 3.6GHz 16 GB, GTX 1070 Ti

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by FootplatePhil View Post
    The longevity of Trainz shows its not just about "SIMULATION".
    You're right. I want simulation and creation.

    Being as subjective as possible, Trainz excels at creation but falls flat on simulation. TS wins hands down on driving experience but isn't for the faint hearted when it comes to route creation.

    I'd never drive in Trainz; braking and acceleration physics aren't even in the park when it comes to reality and yes, while there's a physics editor, it is near unfathomable. The majority of cab interiors and sounds are exceedingly dated although I note that some steps are being taken to improve visuals at least. The route creation is streets ahead though. Intuitive UI, fairly shallow learning curve, incredible number of free assets on the DLS. Ability to import real world geo data (I've not managed to work this out for TS). Oh, and a generally civil and helpful forum.

    Flip that round for TS. Reasonably good physics, highly detailed cabs and superb sound. Route creation... Well, I still haven't worked it out. Also costs money.

    Both sims have plus and minus sides. It's just a case of what each individual is looking to do. As I want both, I use both sims.

    Cheers,
    Innis

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    Quote Originally Posted by martinvk View Post
    wow, these are all first class? Do they have a random element built-in? For how many routes? Are they locked?
    So now graphics are not important and it's only about SIMULATION?
    Personally, I like that any route can be built in Trainz by anyone with enough time and skill. And then being able to edit them to my tastes and not how someone else thinks it should look.
    Trainz has to compete with what is selling, train driving on real routes?

    Any route can be built in in Railworks or MSTS/Open Rails with the new TRES editor with enough time and skill.

    Duh!

    There is no new audience for Trainz.

    Harold

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