How far the hobby has fallen

Must say TANE SP4 is looking quite good. Hopefully not too long before the general version is released. Think that is my current "backstop" for Trainz even if it does make me a former customer...
 
I don't know if there are orther programs free or less expensive programs for the making of PBR textures

Two free programs for PBR stuff, Awsomebump and Materialise on N3V's software page https://contentcreation.trainzsimulator.com/category/software/

Chasys Draw free graphics suite that does layers etc, from playing with it, plenty good enough for Trainz stuff.

Tattoo a free Mesh skinning tool, not tried it but supports TGA and 3ds and obj

Free add-ons for Blender appearing gradually.
 
Two free programs for PBR stuff, Awsomebump and Materialise on N3V's software page https://contentcreation.trainzsimulator.com/category/software/

Chasys Draw free graphics suite that does layers etc, from playing with it, plenty good enough for Trainz stuff.

Tattoo a free Mesh skinning tool, not tried it but supports TGA and 3ds and obj

Free add-ons for Blender appearing gradually.

Thanks. When I finally dive deep into Blender 2.80, I'll definitely check these out.

Take care,
 
@Tony
Quote: “there are dozens of tutorials here: https://contentcreation.trainzsimula...egory/scenery/

I have never seen this webpage before. Go figure! Play around a bit to see how I might have stumbled on it. Can’t seem to find a link trainz Onlinr (http://online.ts2009.com) or Trainz Portal (http://www.trainzportal.com/). Can find it by goggling “Trainz Content Creation”. Guess I have never done that before. Perhaps this is something others have missed?

@narrowgauge
Interesting perspectives. As a creator I tend to think of hobbyist and entrepreneurs. But, of course when it comes to Trainz itself, for hobbyists it is a simulator however for most users it is a game.

Perhaps what is a challenge for N3V is that gamers tire of the game sooner. Once you have played it and “won” what else it there? Creators find a whole new world to explore beyond Trainz itself, the world on 3D graphics, for which Trainz provides an outlet to explore.

@johnwhelan
Quote: “…to be honest I can't see any major difference between those assets and ones made for earlier versions using traditional tools.”

Also my observation. I would like to see some further discussion on this topic, perhaps some examples, e.g., comparison pictures in game. For example, I have viewed Trainz - Content Creation - #33 - Convert Old Ground Textures to PBR / Parallax (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDKXWd4zOV4) many times and tried use height maps to get the effect nut to no avail. Frankly, I still don’t understand how a height map is supposed to simulate parallax given that the usual definition of parallax is “the effect whereby the position or direction of an object appears to differ when viewed from different positions”. Just one example of the complexity of PBR that I think needs more discussion and examples of its application.

I am still creating for TANE and then, perhaps, importing into TRS19. I am still trying to work out the advantages of PBR (see above), Blender 2.8, and all of the new Blender add-ons.

I only recently discovered that my routes, the Canadian Pacific Railway’s Mountain Subdivision circa 1887 and the Canadian Pacific Railway’s Mountain Subdivision circa 2010 can look good in TRS19 if I reset the diurnal color data thanks to the post

https://forums.auran.com/trainz/sho...turation-and-transparency-in-TRS2019-vs-T-ANE, which popped up again on the forum on September 1, 2019 thanks to CitMusJoe and posts that followed. Makes on wonder how new users are fairing with figuring out Trainz and, in particular, TRS19. But then again maybe it is just getting old and not being with it!


Cayden
 
The "Trainz Wiki" link at the top of this page takes you to the main page. Links for content creation is on the left and also further down the page in the text.

Hmmm, seems like the official wiki has not been updated to link to https://contentcreation.trainzsimulator.com/


I'm NOT a big fan of using a wiki to replace a proper manual.

William
 
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I appreciate Cayden's concerns but I don't completely share his views. I believe there has never been a more exciting time to make models:

1. We can now make models and export or import in FBX format. There are quite a few free, cheap and expensive tools we can now use. Even Windows 10 has a built in FBX editor/viewer. It doesn't understand Trainz materials but it is still useful for viewing models.
2. PBR. The concepts are not as difficult as you may think but the production of the required textures can be expensive. I've been looking for cheap solutions for well over a year. But things are looking up.
3. Blender 2.8 is going to be a game changer and I believe we will be able to paint models and produce Trainz PBR materials. But not yet. This is another issue I've been looking at.

I don't write full tutorials bit I do write, and maintain, simple "get you started" tutorials for the Trainz WiKi.

The Discord channels have largely taken over from the regular CC forum because answers can be provided much quicker. The channels feature some very talented, and some not so talented, creators. I usually have it running in the background.

Yes, things are not as they were. I wasn't making content back in the TS04/TS06/TS09 days but it's obvious to me that today's creators are standing on the backs of giants who paved the way. I like to think those giants would like us to continue their good work.
 
...
Also my observation. I would like to see some further discussion on this topic, perhaps some examples, e.g., comparison pictures in game. For example, I have viewed Trainz - Content Creation - #33 - Convert Old Ground Textures to PBR / Parallax (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDKXWd4zOV4) many times and tried use height maps to get the effect nut to no avail. Frankly, I still don’t understand how a height map is supposed to simulate parallax given that the usual definition of parallax is “the effect whereby the position or direction of an object appears to differ when viewed from different positions”. Just one example of the complexity of PBR that I think needs more discussion and examples of its application.
....
Recently, I watched an Allegorithmic candidate tutorial for their new, still in beta, Substance Alchemist. As I recall, the tutorial showed how to extract height data from a simple texture texture. i.e. An image of a real cloth texture. The tool allows you to vary the height and see the effects onscreen. You can get some rather weird results.

The tutorial is out of date with the latest beta and much of that is in the interface which made the tutorial difficult to follow.

Your quote matches exactly how height is used. At most angles the effect can be stunning but at acute angles or too close or exacerbated height values it can look odd.

Substance Painter uses some height information to render scratches, rust blisters, dirt, etc, and the results can look very realistic.

I think height information should be used sparingly.
 
Have also been on this ride for a long time. Used to make quite a few objects, mainly as Surveyor helpers but with a few "normal" objects thrown in as my needs required them. And that was the main motivation, I needed something and then shared it in case someone else wanted it too. Was never driven to profit from them.

Back then, it seemed to be easier to create things although that may just be rose colored nostalgia. Still remember the thrill in getting bump mapping to work. At least the tools were free so the cost was only in time.

Change is the only constant and Trainz is no exception.
 
Blender 2.8 is going to be a game changer ...

I have had Blender on my computer(s) for several years now and I update as every new version is released. After each update I immediately fire it up and look at the user interface, get depressed and close it down. The new Blender 2.8 has redesigned the interface to something that even I can understand. I had a look at a few videos on the new interface and it now works in much same way as any other Windows software - no need to reverse your thinking on using the mouse for example and keyboard shortcuts that make more sense.

I will actually give this version a serious go - no more depression!
 
Hi All
From a creator perspective, I would personally say that a lot has changed but as far as I have seen it's been relatively stable (ie the bad and good are at least even, if not more good than bad IMO). I have seen a lot of people who lost interest over the years, and many others who have gained interest as well.

That said, for content, there's been some big shifts. Most have been towards higher detailed, better performing, content. Some of these include GMax becoming less popular (due to no support from it's developers for about 16 years) and Blender becoming more popular, better use of LOD, better support for higher detail models and textures, and more.

This has meant that, in many cases, content can take much longer to make, when using similar tools. OTOH there are many tools around, although not specifically 'Trainz' tools, that can help reduce this time as well. It doesn't quite balance out, but it still helps.

One concern I do have is reskinning a PBR textured asset. Is it possible without some fancy software to modify the PBR textures?

This is a question that definitely caught my attention. To a degree it depends on the asset, but beyond an image editor that supports editing channels, there's nothing special needed. If all you are talking about is 'repainting' a traincar (painted surfaces remaining painted, metal surfaces remain metal, etc), then it should actually be easier. PBR doesn't have the AO bake in the 'diffuse' (albedo) texture, so repainting this should be far easier than on non PBR assets since no AO is present. Actually there shouldn't be any shading (ie faked shadows or highlights) at all; just paint/weathering/etc.


If you want to change how much shine is on an asset, then you would need to edit the parameters texture, which requires you to have edit each of the image channels. Photoshop can do this, and I'm fairly sure there's some other free tools that would help with doing this. That said, it's honestly not that much different to editing the specular or 'reflection' channels on a tbumpenv asset (or any other normals mapped asset, in the case of specular).

So for the average PBR traincar reskin, in theory you might be able to get away with using very basic image editing tools to repaint it.

As to the difference between PBR and tbumpenv (as the most 'advanced' of the TANE materials), this really depends on what you are doing. A lot of objects will generally appear quite similar, but you should be able to get better control over reflection and specular. It's also a lot easier to add, and edit, the AO with this being separate to the albedo.

Personally I found it was easier to achieve certain looks with PBR. I definitely like what I can achieve with reflective surfaces on my steam locos. And a lot of details really pop in shadowy areas, as AO is now handled more realistically.

Regards
 
To go back to the original theme of this thread, I think that the "golden age of Trainz" is right now. It is easy to look back at the past (TRS2009 and earlier) with rose coloured glasses and claim that things were so much better (or easier) back then. All too often we let nostalgia take over and we forget all the problems and "issues" that we put up with, mostly because we did not know any better. Things may have looked "rosy" but, as many posters in these forums frequently point out, a lot of the graphic quality of assets was cr@p (no disrespect to those creators who blazed the trail), video performance was poor and features limited.

Yes, the technology has advanced since those "heady days" and the tools we used back then, GMax, MS Paint, etc simply will not cut it any more. But the results you can achieve from using the new materials and features, and learning the new tools as Zec points out in the post above, are far far better. These tools will become easier to use (software tools always do - who remembers the very first version of MS Word running on MS-DOS?) Heck, the new Blender interface is so much better that I am going to roll my sleeves up and give it a serious go!
 
To go back to the original theme of this thread, I think that the "golden age of Trainz" is right now. It is easy to look back at the past (TRS2009 and earlier) with rose coloured glasses and claim that things were so much better (or easier) back then. All too often we let nostalgia take over and we forget all the problems and "issues" that we put up with, mostly because we did not know any better. Things may have looked "rosy" but, as many posters in these forums frequently point out, a lot of the graphic quality of assets was cr@p (no disrespect to those creators who blazed the trail), video performance was poor and features limited.

Yes, the technology has advanced since those "heady days" and the tools we used back then, GMax, MS Paint, etc simply will not cut it any more. But the results you can achieve from using the new materials and features, and learning the new tools as Zec points out in the post above, are far far better. These tools will become easier to use (software tools always do - who remembers the very first version of MS Word running on MS-DOS?) Heck, the new Blender interface is so much better that I am going to roll my sleeves up and give it a serious go!




Pware hit the nail on it's head, nostalgia blurs the reality often and most people tend to forget the negative issues that irritated us back then, heck, even I am the victim of that once in a while. But as Tony and others already stated , TRS19 is the best TRAINZ version ever.

Ron
 
To go back to the original theme of this thread, I think that the "golden age of Trainz" is right now. ... the technology has advanced ...

When I said:
“I think the golden age for Trainz hobbyists was back in 2009 when for a short period of time Trainz Magazine was published monthly.

It was free, ran to about 20 pages each month, and contained articles contributed by creators on a variety of topics.”

I wasn’t referring to the tools, e.g., back then Blender wasn’t even an option. I was referring to the articles and tutorials that were available that were being published on a regular basis.

How many can you name that are currently publishing or have recently published articles and tutorials? Of course there is N3V, but who else? Help me extend the list:

pcas1986
steveflanders
Cayden


Cayden
 
....

How many can you name that are currently publishing or have recently published articles and tutorials? Of course there is N3V, but who else? Help me extend the list:

pcas1986
steveflanders
Cayden

....
GDennish has at least one, and perhaps two or three videos on the Trainz CC website. It says they are by N3V Games but I know he made the Blender PBR one.

I've been wondering how one gets tutorial content onto that site.
There are several pages of videos. I'm surprised I don't see more discussion on them.
 
GDennish has at least one, and perhaps two or three videos on the Trainz CC website. It says they are by N3V Games but I know he made the Blender PBR one.

I've been wondering how one gets tutorial content onto that site.
There are several pages of videos. I'm surprised I don't see more discussion on them.

Could be as not everyone has unlimited bandwidth, I've only recently got it, so avoided anything video related up until last December! I was stuck on capped 4G having to watch what I was using, go over the limit and it was cut off until the next month, been busy catching up now though!

“I think the golden age for Trainz hobbyists was back in 2009 when for a short period of time Trainz Magazine was published monthly.

That stopped when the editor suddenly disappeared or gave up Trainz, can't remember which and although discussed at the time, nobody seemed interested it taking it on, compiling a magazine is pretty much a full time job. I should have all the copies that were produced backed up somewhere. I started in 2008 and found those extremely useful at the time.

There was that alternative Wiki that was created by a now banned user and was unfortunately rapidly out of date. It stopped when he got banned for some kind of spat on the forums.

Creating tutorials and videos that are any good requires someone who not only knows what they are doing but can also explain it clearly so others can understand, not everyone who is good at content creation is good at putting it into words or has the time!
 
The current agreement for uploading to the DLS allows N3V to do what they like with the content including selling it and limiting access for editing or other purposes. This is hardly going to encourage the hobbyist who wants to create and share work freely to upload to the DLS.

The license granted to N3V for items uploaded to the DLS does NOT permit them to convert it to payware. It only allows distribution, either on the DLS or as part of a payware package. N3V has been making unauthorised changes to convert these assets to payware (as well as adding things like language strings, and making other changes). These changes now have to be rolled back to restore the asset to the original form that it was uploaded as.
 
Per the DLS License Agreement: http://online.ts2009.com/mediaWiki/index.php/Download_Station_License_Agreement

Grant of license

With regard to all your New Works uploaded to the Download Station, you grant to N3V a personal, transferable but non-exclusive license to those New Works in order that N3V can redistribute the New Works to third parties:

(a) by making the New Works available for download from the Download Station for free or for payment;
(b) by including the New Works on a CDROM or DVDROM (or other storage medium) that is made publicly available for sale or that is given away; or (c) both (a) and (b).

 
There was that alternative Wiki that was created by a now banned user and was unfortunately rapidly out of date. It stopped when he got banned for some kind of spat on the forums.

Creating tutorials and videos that are any good requires someone who not only knows what they are doing but can also explain it clearly so others can understand, not everyone who is good at content creation is good at putting it into words or has the time!

https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Trainz

I have an idea it might have been me who started it as a way to retain information. I think N3V had just deleted a fair chuck of user documentation at the time. Many people added to it. One person appointed themselves as editor and decided to clean it up. They did a fair bit of rewriting and I think that is the person who was banned. From memory though people who have been banned are allowed back after a couple of years in the wilderness if they wish to return.

I think the information in the wiki book is dated now now, some is still valid and the N3V wiki is a more solid bit of work but the wiki book served its purpose at the time which was to preserve information and the current N3V wiki is more up to date, stable and reliable.

Cheerio John
 
GDennish has at least one, and perhaps two or three videos on the Trainz CC website.

Yes. I forgot to include gdennish
I have viewed and studied his excellent video tutorials.Wish I had the skill to deliver a video tutorial as smoothly presented and easy to follow as his.

The Joys of Trainz – Exporting a Cube with FBX and PBR from (Blender)
February 21, 2019
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTXgaNOETF0

The Joys of Trainz – Exporting Substance Painter Textures f0r TRRS19
February 22, 2019
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpPiznghbwU

One should also add trainamdm01 (TheWelshEngineer)

Exporting Your Model To Trainz | Tutorial
February 2, 2019
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPzHXptc60U

List:

pcas1986
steveflanders
cayden
gdennish
trainamdm01

We are up to 5. And counting?


Cayden
 
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