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Thread: How far the hobby has fallen

  1. #31
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    To go back to the original theme of this thread, I think that the "golden age of Trainz" is right now. It is easy to look back at the past (TRS2009 and earlier) with rose coloured glasses and claim that things were so much better (or easier) back then. All too often we let nostalgia take over and we forget all the problems and "issues" that we put up with, mostly because we did not know any better. Things may have looked "rosy" but, as many posters in these forums frequently point out, a lot of the graphic quality of assets was cr@p (no disrespect to those creators who blazed the trail), video performance was poor and features limited.

    Yes, the technology has advanced since those "heady days" and the tools we used back then, GMax, MS Paint, etc simply will not cut it any more. But the results you can achieve from using the new materials and features, and learning the new tools as Zec points out in the post above, are far far better. These tools will become easier to use (software tools always do - who remembers the very first version of MS Word running on MS-DOS?) Heck, the new Blender interface is so much better that I am going to roll my sleeves up and give it a serious go!
    A member of the "Party Machine". Now if only I could remember where they are holding the party!

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by pware View Post
    To go back to the original theme of this thread, I think that the "golden age of Trainz" is right now. It is easy to look back at the past (TRS2009 and earlier) with rose coloured glasses and claim that things were so much better (or easier) back then. All too often we let nostalgia take over and we forget all the problems and "issues" that we put up with, mostly because we did not know any better. Things may have looked "rosy" but, as many posters in these forums frequently point out, a lot of the graphic quality of assets was cr@p (no disrespect to those creators who blazed the trail), video performance was poor and features limited.

    Yes, the technology has advanced since those "heady days" and the tools we used back then, GMax, MS Paint, etc simply will not cut it any more. But the results you can achieve from using the new materials and features, and learning the new tools as Zec points out in the post above, are far far better. These tools will become easier to use (software tools always do - who remembers the very first version of MS Word running on MS-DOS?) Heck, the new Blender interface is so much better that I am going to roll my sleeves up and give it a serious go!



    Pware hit the nail on it's head, nostalgia blurs the reality often and most people tend to forget the negative issues that irritated us back then, heck, even I am the victim of that once in a while. But as Tony and others already stated , TRS19 is the best TRAINZ version ever.

    Ron

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by pware View Post
    To go back to the original theme of this thread, I think that the "golden age of Trainz" is right now. ... the technology has advanced ...
    When I said:
    “I think the golden age for Trainz hobbyists was back in 2009 when for a short period of time Trainz Magazine was published monthly.

    It was free, ran to about 20 pages each month, and contained articles contributed by creators on a variety of topics.”

    I wasn’t referring to the tools, e.g., back then Blender wasn’t even an option. I was referring to the articles and tutorials that were available that were being published on a regular basis.

    How many can you name that are currently publishing or have recently published articles and tutorials? Of course there is N3V, but who else? Help me extend the list:

    pcas1986
    steveflanders
    Cayden


    Cayden

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cayden View Post
    ....

    How many can you name that are currently publishing or have recently published articles and tutorials? Of course there is N3V, but who else? Help me extend the list:

    pcas1986
    steveflanders
    Cayden

    ....
    GDennish has at least one, and perhaps two or three videos on the Trainz CC website. It says they are by N3V Games but I know he made the Blender PBR one.

    I've been wondering how one gets tutorial content onto that site.
    There are several pages of videos. I'm surprised I don't see more discussion on them.

    Paul


  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by pcas1986 View Post
    GDennish has at least one, and perhaps two or three videos on the Trainz CC website. It says they are by N3V Games but I know he made the Blender PBR one.

    I've been wondering how one gets tutorial content onto that site.
    There are several pages of videos. I'm surprised I don't see more discussion on them.
    Could be as not everyone has unlimited bandwidth, I've only recently got it, so avoided anything video related up until last December! I was stuck on capped 4G having to watch what I was using, go over the limit and it was cut off until the next month, been busy catching up now though!

    “I think the golden age for Trainz hobbyists was back in 2009 when for a short period of time Trainz Magazine was published monthly.
    That stopped when the editor suddenly disappeared or gave up Trainz, can't remember which and although discussed at the time, nobody seemed interested it taking it on, compiling a magazine is pretty much a full time job. I should have all the copies that were produced backed up somewhere. I started in 2008 and found those extremely useful at the time.

    There was that alternative Wiki that was created by a now banned user and was unfortunately rapidly out of date. It stopped when he got banned for some kind of spat on the forums.

    Creating tutorials and videos that are any good requires someone who not only knows what they are doing but can also explain it clearly so others can understand, not everyone who is good at content creation is good at putting it into words or has the time!
    Malc


  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cayden View Post
    The current agreement for uploading to the DLS allows N3V to do what they like with the content including selling it and limiting access for editing or other purposes. This is hardly going to encourage the hobbyist who wants to create and share work freely to upload to the DLS.
    The license granted to N3V for items uploaded to the DLS does NOT permit them to convert it to payware. It only allows distribution, either on the DLS or as part of a payware package. N3V has been making unauthorised changes to convert these assets to payware (as well as adding things like language strings, and making other changes). These changes now have to be rolled back to restore the asset to the original form that it was uploaded as.

  7. #37
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    Per the DLS License Agreement: http://online.ts2009.com/mediaWiki/index.php/Download_Station_License_Agreement

    Grant of license

    With regard to all your New Works uploaded to the Download Station, you grant to N3V a personal, transferable but non-exclusive license to those New Works in order that N3V can redistribute the New Works to third parties:

    (a) by making the New Works available for download from the Download Station for free or for payment;
    (b) by including the New Works on a CDROM or DVDROM (or other storage medium) that is made publicly available for sale or that is given away; or (c) both (a) and (b).

    Toujours Prêt!

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by clam1952 View Post
    There was that alternative Wiki that was created by a now banned user and was unfortunately rapidly out of date. It stopped when he got banned for some kind of spat on the forums.

    Creating tutorials and videos that are any good requires someone who not only knows what they are doing but can also explain it clearly so others can understand, not everyone who is good at content creation is good at putting it into words or has the time!
    https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Trainz

    I have an idea it might have been me who started it as a way to retain information. I think N3V had just deleted a fair chuck of user documentation at the time. Many people added to it. One person appointed themselves as editor and decided to clean it up. They did a fair bit of rewriting and I think that is the person who was banned. From memory though people who have been banned are allowed back after a couple of years in the wilderness if they wish to return.

    I think the information in the wiki book is dated now now, some is still valid and the N3V wiki is a more solid bit of work but the wiki book served its purpose at the time which was to preserve information and the current N3V wiki is more up to date, stable and reliable.

    Cheerio John

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by pcas1986 View Post
    GDennish has at least one, and perhaps two or three videos on the Trainz CC website.
    Yes. I forgot to include gdennish
    I have viewed and studied his excellent video tutorials.Wish I had the skill to deliver a video tutorial as smoothly presented and easy to follow as his.

    The Joys of Trainz – Exporting a Cube with FBX and PBR from (Blender)
    February 21, 2019
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTXgaNOETF0

    The Joys of Trainz – Exporting Substance Painter Textures f0r TRRS19
    February 22, 2019
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpPiznghbwU

    One should also add trainamdm01 (TheWelshEngineer)

    Exporting Your Model To Trainz | Tutorial
    February 2, 2019
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPzHXptc60U

    List:

    pcas1986
    steveflanders
    cayden
    gdennish
    trainamdm01

    We are up to 5. And counting?


    Cayden
    Last edited by Cayden; September 10th, 2019 at 09:53 PM.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnwhelan View Post
    From memory though people who have been banned are allowed back after a couple of years in the wilderness if they wish to return.
    The ban from updating the wiki is permanent. It was mainly because of negative comments re Auran/N3V being included in user documentation, but the fact is that the language used was overblown and turgid, and often not helpful.
    http://online.ts2009.com/mediaWiki/i...cial:BlockList

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by SailorDan View Post
    ... but the fact is that the language used was overblown and turgid, and often not helpful.
    During the last 12 months and more I have spent some considerable time working in the Trainz Wiki editing some of that "overblown and turgid" language, as well as adding my own pages to the wiki (which others have edited to improve my occasionally "overblown and turgid" language - editing which I am grateful for).

    One of the problems with technical documentation is that it is often (but not always) written by the "techies" who created the software/hardware in the first place. While these are obviously the best qualified people to understand the software/hardware and how it works etc, there is an old adage that I have always found to be useful and, more often than not, true - "Never let the programmers write the user documentation".

    Obviously, my opinion only.
    A member of the "Party Machine". Now if only I could remember where they are holding the party!

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by pware View Post
    ...

    One of the problems with technical documentation is that it is often (but not always) written by the "techies" who created the software/hardware in the first place. While these are obviously the best qualified people to understand the software/hardware and how it works etc, there is an old adage that I have always found to be useful and, more often than not, true - "Never let the programmers write the user documentation.
    That's because you need someone from a different perspective and software engineers are too close to the system. Ideally, we need a team effort. There have been, and probably still are, sections of the WiKi that are technical and not explained well. The technical description of the branches of the track-LOD-tree structure is a classic and N3V took the trouble to create a written tutorial.

    I write my little tutorials to help CCS understand a particular process since nothing may have existed beforehand. I well remember struggling with this when I first started. One aspect that confused me was UV mapping and it was one of John's basic tutorials that lit the proverbial lightbulb. A Eureka moment. But I've learned a lot since then.

    I like to investigate issues and, when I find something useful, I will pass it on.

    Paul


  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony_Hilliam View Post
    and any entrepreneurial UK content creator has a bug gap in the marketplace right now
    What a revealing slip

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by clam1952 View Post
    We get these negative threads after every change we get, however most of us are still here, what does that realistically tell you?
    Stockholm syndrome.




  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by amigacooke View Post
    Stockholm syndrome.
    Stockholm syndrome is a condition which causes hostages to develop a psychological alliance with their captors during captivity.
    Hmmm. There are many ways that could be applied to Trainz
    A member of the "Party Machine". Now if only I could remember where they are holding the party!

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