So What's next for Non-Subscription TRS19 Users?

I started with the Gold sub to kick the tyres on the game, then when the Uk version came along I purchased that and cancelled my Gold sub, - but not before purchasing the DLC routes I actually wanted using my Gold sub discount. There wasn't much DLC I did want though since anything for the Uk is the poor relation when it comes to Trainz.
The content vault wasn't worth having. It was the same old stuff going round and round I didn't want so it was no loss giving it the toss.

I use TS2019 mostly to run updated versions of my favourite legacy routes and they certainly do look very nice in the new simulator. I don't use any of the magic stuff like Tufts (or whatever it is) in TS2019 because from reading forum posts all it does is cause problems and wreck things when trying to use it. Most of the time I can find a lighting setting somewhere between the sun going supernova and the depths of the Slough of Despond that works and looks Ok, but for someone new to Trainz starting out with TS2019 they must wonder what the heck is going on when they start up the sim for the first time.

I continue to build things in TS2012 and I do my own reskins so I don't think I'm missing anything. The day N3V comes up with something I can actually use in the way of assets for my chosen Uk era will be the day there's snowball fights in hell.
 
I am very much with Mika (post #19 above).

Like it or not, subscriptions are now the way most software seems to be going. Microsoft Office 365, by all independent reports, has been a huge financial success and many other software developers have or are following suite.

From all the posts I have seen from N3V, including the most recent ones from Tony, they have no plans to abandon the full outright purchase option.

From his post https://forums.auran.com/trainz/sho...ership-Update-Sept-2019&p=1766576#post1766576

There is no change to the store option.
Click to expand...

TRS19, the non-subscription version, will still be available and updates (bug fixes, SPs, HFs, etc) will still be released. The original plan of providing the Gold features to non-gold owners as later releases has not changed.

Gold, Silver, Plus are just options designed to increase sales and revenue (N3V is not a charity) and pay the bills.

Now of course, business plans can change at the drop of a hat. Auran/N3V have always been a small operation that are more susceptible to market and economic forces than the likes of EA, etc. But the claim that

...the developers don't think things through before doing things...
Click to expand...

is nonsense. The fact that they are offering customers a choice, and one that by all accounts has been popular, and that they are prepared to make changes and try new options proves the opposite.

Why do some forum users fear choice?

My thoughts only.
 
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pware said:
I am very much with Mika (post #19 above).
But the claim that
[...the developers don't think things through before doing things...]
is nonsense.

When I said that I had in mind specifically that I enter the game one morning and I'm greeted with a download window full of items. (Don't mis-understand, I love items, but some notice would have been appropriate.) Then someone said their "Manage Content Vault" button was gone. "It's all in game now" we were told, and then less than 24 hours later the "Manage Content Vault" button was back. That was what I was thinking about when I made that statement. I think that indicates "not thinking things through" and that adds to a lot of confusion.
Click to expand...
 
I think there is sufficient content without the DLC to keep me reasonably happy. I'd like a few basic enhancements to TS19 to make it usable but I have DRM free TANE if need be and it runs not too badly.

At the moment I'm not convinced that Blender 2.8 exporting to FBX and PBR are ready for prime time and as far as I can see they need TS19 anyway.

Cheerio John
 
I am loosing track. When was the last release of TANE that was not beta, I presume it was SP3, and what was the PC and Mac version numbers?

When was the last release of TRS19 that was not beta, or has TRS19 ever been released in a non-beta? If so, what was the PC and Mac version numbers?

Cayden
 
Vern said:
Don't worry, the official response that TRS19 (non subscription version) is now the province of "former" customers will probably follow shortly... I still find it hard to believe so many (or maybe not so many given this latest push) prefer the subscription where you are effectively borrowing TRS19! Suspect TRS21 if such a beast ever arrives will be entirely subscription based.
Click to expand...

Personally, I'm not really a big fan of the "subscription models". Those options just don't interest me... Buy/own, that's me. I read all the lastest offers, newletters, etc, and in some ways, I have to admire N3V for trying to be abit innovative with their business model to help stay in business.

Why not offer choice? As long as there's choice's that suits everyone, why not? Clearly the subscription model suits some...

It doesn't worry me whether they offer a large range of subscriptions options/offers to customers. As long as they continue to allow customers to buy the sim "outright", if they wish too, and any DLC "outright" that customers may fancy, then I'm OK with any other offers they wish to promote. If it's helping their bottom line, good luck to them.

I don't think that N3V would be stupid enough to remove customers buying the sim/DLC outright options. I'm sure that they have clearly got the message in the forum, that a number of their existing customers would much rather "walk away from future versions" if a "subscription only" ever came down the line...

I'll continue to stay optimistic...

Happy Trainzing,

Cheers, Mac...
 
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1611mac said:
pware said:
I am very much with Mika (post #19 above).
But the claim that
[...the developers don't think things through before doing things...]
is nonsense.

When I said that I had in mind specifically that I enter the game one morning and I'm greeted with a download window full of items. (Don't mis-understand, I love items, but some notice would have been appropriate.) Then someone said their "Manage Content Vault" button was gone. "It's all in game now" we were told, and then less than 24 hours later the "Manage Content Vault" button was back. That was what I was thinking about when I made that statement. I think that indicates "not thinking things through" and that adds to a lot of confusion.
Click to expand...

Tony said that it turned out to be easier for us to keep the content vault around for now until things were fully in place.

So looking at this, I don't think this was a developer decision and more of a marketing decision that didn't quite go as planned. Sometimes in big business, marketing moves faster than the developers and the changes were implemented on the website before they were full implemented in the program. I've seen this happen with other products and other companies as well.
Click to expand...
 
meatloaf747 said:
I don't think that N3V would be stupid enough to remove customers buying the sim/DLC outright options.
Click to expand...

But posts claiming that N3V are moving to an "all subscription model" or are going to reduce/eliminate/cripple features for the non-subscription version, keep appearing. Could this happen? Obviously yes - just like I could win the lottery!
 
So many are heading for that subscription model, I refuse to have anything to do with it, I prefer to "own" what I paid for not rent it temporarily, but its the"modern" world and people let it happen, it wont go away until they say "no more". But they wont because it "seems" cheaper in the short term. Its a bit like content that we have to have an online access to authorize, what happens when the developer goes out of business?? ye funny thing with software its only any good when you have electricity or it like paying for nothing. Wel lit is nothing without electricity.
 
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lackoo11111 said:
I moved backward to TS2012 .
Click to expand...

Not a bad idea. Port the decent built in routes over from TS2010 (with assets from the DLS while I still have a FCT) and away we go. At least it doesn't turn the laptop into a room heater like TRS19 does. I will probably keep TANE around though, at least to see how SP4 does.

Obviously there are things to be aware of working in TS12, as mentioned the spline detachment and height issue plus the speed tree version changing in later versions. But I was thinking about this earlier, most of my enjoyable time building routes in Trainz was actually spent in TS12 or earlier versions. TANE and TRS19 have largely been a headache for creation due to initial bugs, frequent updates which break things and poorly optimised code trying to burn out your hardware.
 
To be very honest with you, i do not have a clue, whats that all about subscribing, golden or silver membership and that sort of holluballou.



I am with Trainz for ages and have purchased most of the upcoming versions. And most of the time, I kept an FCT and I have even bought some amount of payware from the shop.



After all, most of them payware routes are a joke. There is tons and tons of brilliant routes out as freeware. Same with locos and rolling stock.



However, I do understand that N3V games need to create money in order to keep this game going. Fair enough.



But then, when they find time, to create the most complicated subscription systems and they find time, to explain the whole theatre again and again – and send mailings around, how wonderful the world of the downloadstation is, as long as you are gold or a silver member, at least – they might find time as well, to finish one of the current versions, either Tane or TS19 from Beta SP 1 – 99 to a full version. 1 point zero at least.
And to implement that (old) new idea, driving, building and editing in drivers mode without always leaving driver and restarting in editor and, if possible a stable working multiplayer system.
 
My own feeling is that N3V are trying to do too much with insufficient staff. We non subscribers are still waiting for TANE SP4 while N3V are also working on a TRS2019 update and trying to raise income from their subscription goodies. I must admit I find nothing of interest in the payware especially when they issue sessions like a US train travelling in Britain where it would demolish the first bridge it came to or jam in a tunnel with its taller loading gauge! I tend to be a pessimist but I do wonder if N3V are clutching at straws to keep Trainz going.
 
The fact a software company has no other games in its portfolio (other than the long failed Fury) is not a sign of a thriving operation! (IMHO).
 
Vern said:
The fact a software company has no other games in its portfolio (other than the long failed Fury) is not a sign of a thriving operation! (IMHO).
Click to expand...

Agree . The monthly subscription model only works for big companies like EA ( Origin Access Premier ) , Ubisoft ( Uplay+ ) .
 
As a non-subscriber with Build 100240, I am pretty much a happy camper, contented with my choice to purchase the simulator, as opposed to the subscription/ game-leasing model.
TRS19 is a brilliant railroad simulator offering countless hours of route creation and session design pleasure for many of us - and is a worthy successor to the brilliant step-change that T:ANE represented to the Trainz franchise.
I dislike subscription models - and purchase alternatives accordingly. (Consider the expensive Adobe Creative Suite subscription model, for example - and then compare that to the low-cost alternatives of even better professional creativity software offered by the Affinity Suite by Serif.com, for example). The business case for the latter is robust.
Nevertheless, I applaud N3V for giving us a range of choices. For some, the subscription model suits well.
What is of genuine concern to me, however, is that with all these different development forks, there's a chance (no - certainty!) that non-subscribers do not get any priority whatsoever for bug fixes that have arisen/ been created by recent updates and changes to the DLC and DLS assets to suit the Gold Plus and beta-stream users. That seems rather unfair to me.
Will patiently await the arrival of Service Pack 1 and sincerely hope that these fixes are applied to TRS19 non-subscriber builds too. ;)
 
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On the one hand I think that the additional plus subscription is a nice feature on the other hand, for me it would be a kind of paid beta-test. I took part for long time in beta tests, as existing TRS 2019- and FCT owner, i would only benefit from the Trainz PLUS-updates. So should I really pay more for beta-testing new features? Sure i'm interested, but i'm not comfortable with the idea of paying for testing.

Regarding the DLCs: I have no problem with paid content, but it should be definitely clear when a Freeware asset (e.g. a route) requires DLC-content.
So the CM and also the DLS-website should show for example an icon for content that requires paid DLCs, maybe also lists the required DLCs BEFORE the user downloads those assets as it is very frustrating when you download a large route with many dependencies and at the end, there are DLCs missing.
Does not happen that often currently, but could in the future.
 
Can see more "Payware, not active" crap in the future.

Just bought the American Mountains route and installed in TANE SP4, great route.

tane4_0006.jpg


tane4_0009.jpg



There was an asset that had been "payware-ized" in every TANE version but the author's SP3.

Had this problem with a loco in a payware JR route.

I could fix the problem due to experience. What about the bad taste for new people with this crap show?

How bad will this be in the future?

Harold
 
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JCitron said:
Tony said that it turned out to be easier for us to keep the content vault around for now until things were fully in place.
-snip-
Click to expand...

Thats exactly what I mean... Initially they turned Content Vault off when all content was available to download in game. Then there were several "wheres my Content Vault" msg's here in the forums and CV was suddenly turned on again. So now I have a CV and I have an in game download window with all content and they are not in sync. So... I'm just completely ignoring Content Vault.

Now is this a big deal? No. When I say "not thinking things through" I'm not referring to long term goals, marketing, business model, etc etc. I'm referring to everything things that give the appearance that they make spur of the moment decisions that can cause confusion.

If it is easier to use Content Vault for now... why was it removed the day all the content was made available only to reappear hours later when users complained about an in game download window full of content and having no CV button.

By the way....
I could also comment about all the GREAT things that the developers do. For example, I thank them for making all content available and making TRS19 available for me to purchase outright and use. I personally thank Tony_Hilliam for his participation in these forums. I also thank all the participants in the forums for helping me learn....
 
pware said:
But posts claiming that N3V are moving to an "all subscription model" or are going to reduce/eliminate/cripple features for the non-subscription version, keep appearing. Could this happen? Obviously yes - just like I could win the lottery!
Click to expand...

The last few days we got N3V's answer via their newsletter. If they continue their 'total subscription' policy my decision is clear. I'll leave N3V in this case.
I understand that they'll have to finance their next projects... Every company that produces hardware has to plan and budgetize their next projects. Mercedes or VW also have to do this. But no one would come to the idea to release his product as 'rent only' model.

Maybe their marketing strategists encouraged them according market analysis?

I guess they simply test how far they can go, cause they prefer their own way.

_______
Josef
 
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Hello all.

I have been a fellow trainz enthisiast since 2001 and have enjoyed all versions since v1.? but I think something has been lost along the way, the K.I.S.S. (Keep It Simple S.....) principle should still be applied.
We are not programmers or computer Guru's we just like to be able to get things working and run a layout or session.
Most new versions when they came out caused us to have to correct thousands of pieces of content just to get things to work properly.
Now with TRS19 there is so much missing and faulty content that I have deleted over a third of the layouts that have either missing or faulty dependencies.
Being a non-subscriber with Build 100240, I am pretty much a happy camper, contented with my choice to purchase the simulator, as opposed to the subscription/ game-leasing model.
TRS19 is a brilliant railroad simulator offering countless hours of route creation and session design pleasure for many of us.
Nevertheless, I applaud N3V for giving us a range of choices. For some, the subscription model suits well.
What is of genuine concern to me, however, is that with all these different development forks, there's a chance (no - certainty!) that non-subscribers do not get any priority whatsoever
for bug fixes that have arisen/ been created by recent updates and changes to the DLC and DLS assets to suit the Gold Plus and beta-stream users. That seems rather unfair to me.
Will patiently await the arrival of Service Pack 1 and sincerely hope that these fixes are applied to TRS19 non-subscriber builds too.
I still have T:ane and TS12 on another computer as well so I may use some of the DLC that no longer works with TRS19, I know content creators are working hard to bring their
content up to the new standards and I applaud them for their efforts.
Thank you content creators and keep up the good work.

Dave
​
 
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