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Thread: Route and Sessions - How do they work together?

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by pware View Post
    As long as the new session track does not join onto the existing route track then there should be no problems. But if you join the two tracks together then you have made a change to the original route and you can then expect "trouble".

    Also, you will have to add any switches, signals, etc for your new session track to the same session layer (or to a layer lower down in the session list).
    In TANE in Railhead001's "Expanded" routes, I used to attach session track to ends of his tracks and no route change was indicated. However, most route builders now are adding those end of track signals that look like a pile of logs or whatever, and I can no longer do that, as deleting them causes a route change.

    Another thing to keep in mind, and I believe this is so, the new session tracks cannot change the base contours. They need to be on whatever contour is on the route.
    Last edited by pitkin; August 19th, 2019 at 10:39 PM.
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    The whole thing can be very confusing. It has taken me years to understand, at least, what I need. And it works quite satisfactory. Having said that, I strongly believe that Auran should have made available a comprehensive guide of what saves on route or sessions, and how one affects the other. Don't ask me to write about it. Is complicated and would take long. Some of the modus operandy of what happens could be interpreted as idiotic, and I would have made it differently to simplify things. But you have to live with what we have. Besides, I have no scripting skills other than operate what is available. So the best you can do is try, try and experiment until it makes sense, as I did.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by pitkin View Post
    Another thing to keep in mind, and I believe this is so, the new session tracks cannot change the base contours. They need to be on whatever contour is on the route.
    Yes, as soon as you use the smooth terrain tool to match the terrain height to the track you have altered the route.

    Quote Originally Posted by llebrez View Post
    The whole thing can be very confusing. It has taken me years to understand, at least, what I need. And it works quite satisfactory. Having said that, I strongly believe that Auran should have made available a comprehensive guide of what saves on route or sessions, and how one affects the other.
    It is amazing what you can find on the Train Wiki. Such a guide does exist inside the Wiki document Using Layers. To summarise ...

    There are many features of Trainz Routes and Sessions that are NOT stored in layers. These include:-

    landforms
    textures
    trackside camera positions and settings

    ... which are all stored in the Route (but not in any route layers). Then there is the ...

    weather conditions
    time of day
    session rules and driver commands
    signal and junctions settings
    rolling stock loads
    industry settings
    portal settings
    passenger station settings
    navigation points
    interlocking tower settings^

    ...which are saved as part of a Session (but not in any session layers).
    Last edited by pware; August 20th, 2019 at 01:26 AM.
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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by pware View Post
    Yes, as soon as you use the smooth terrain tool to match the terrain height to the track you have altered the route.



    It is amazing what you can find on the Train Wiki. Such a guide does exist inside the Wiki document Using Layers. To summarise ...

    There are many features of Trainz Routes and Sessions that are NOT stored in layers. These include:-

    landforms
    textures
    trackside camera positions and settings

    ... which are all stored in the Route (but not in any route layers). Then there is the ...

    weather conditions
    time of day
    session rules and driver commands
    signal and junctions settings
    rolling stock loads
    industry settings
    portal settings
    passenger station settings
    navigation points
    interlocking tower settings^

    ...which are saved as part of a Session (but not in any session layers).
    I knew it was going to come to this. Let me be specific on some stances:

    You have a route and one session. The session is dependent of the route and consists are only on this session. One day you decide to add one of these junction controllers. Add it in the route and set the list of junctions to control. Go to the session and it is there. Great! If you install this controller in the session, it will stay there but not in the route (expected), so is better to do it in the route so it will show in all the dependent sessions (I know I only have one, but later in life, I may create others). Now here comes the twist: If you find there was a missing command in the Jtn. controller, you would think all you have to do is go to the route and add it, same as when you started doing this. Well, the change shows now on the route but not in the session! You have to go to the session and add that change there too. (remember that if you change or add in the session, it does not reflect on the route). So you investigate the matter and find that it depends on WHEN you implement the changes. You install the controller in route (not necessarily a controller, could be another object with controls of what it would do, such as Multiple Industries), and set it right then. Save and it shows in the session. If you go back a second time and try to do the same, it does not show in the session. Interesting or confusing?

    A second case: You have a route. Has all the basic ingredients but not consists. A session runs diesels. One day you decide to expand and create a session to run steam. Easy, create a session of the route and add the corresponding consists. But you find that steam locos need water columns and coal loaders, and these assets are not on the route. Easy, in that session delete a short piece of track, and insert the asset pertaining to the coal and water. You would think that because you are in this session, things would not be messed in the other layers. Nope, if you do that, everything would get screwed. The correct solution if to delete that short piece in the route and leave blank. Now go to the diesel session and add your connecting track, then go to the steam session and add the object you need. And doing this, everything fits into place. But remember that because the route is missing this piece of track, next time you create another session, it will have the gap and you'll have to fill it, but not in the route.

    I have more examples, but as I said, it takes space and is long, plus you have to concentrate carefully on what is happening to understand all. It may be on Wiki, but implementing in the real World is another thing. I try to stay away from layers. If you don't understand some basic kirks, you may run into problems and go around in hard to comprehend circles, and the complexity of layers (what layer are you on now? does not help.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by llebrez View Post
    I knew it was going to come to this. Let me be specific on some stances:

    You have a route and one session. The session is dependent of the route and consists are only on this session. One day you decide to add one of these junction controllers. Add it in the route and set the list of junctions to control. Go to the session and it is there. Great! If you install this controller in the session, it will stay there but not in the route (expected), so is better to do it in the route so it will show in all the dependent sessions (I know I only have one, but later in life, I may create others). Now here comes the twist: If you find there was a missing command in the Jtn. controller, you would think all you have to do is go to the route and add it, same as when you started doing this. Well, the change shows now on the route but not in the session! You have to go to the session and add that change there too. (remember that if you change or add in the session, it does not reflect on the route). So you investigate the matter and find that it depends on WHEN you implement the changes. You install the controller in route (not necessarily a controller, could be another object with controls of what it would do, such as Multiple Industries), and set it right then. Save and it shows in the session. If you go back a second time and try to do the same, it does not show in the session. Interesting or confusing?

    A second case: You have a route. Has all the basic ingredients but not consists. A session runs diesels. One day you decide to expand and create a session to run steam. Easy, create a session of the route and add the corresponding consists. But you find that steam locos need water columns and coal loaders, and these assets are not on the route. Easy, in that session delete a short piece of track, and insert the asset pertaining to the coal and water. You would think that because you are in this session, things would not be messed in the other layers. Nope, if you do that, everything would get screwed. The correct solution if to delete that short piece in the route and leave blank. Now go to the diesel session and add your connecting track, then go to the steam session and add the object you need. And doing this, everything fits into place. But remember that because the route is missing this piece of track, next time you create another session, it will have the gap and you'll have to fill it, but not in the route.

    I have more examples, but as I said, it takes space and is long, plus you have to concentrate carefully on what is happening to understand all. It may be on Wiki, but implementing in the real World is another thing. I try to stay away from layers. If you don't understand some basic kirks, you may run into problems and go around in hard to comprehend circles, and the complexity of layers (what layer are you on now? does not help.


    If you are using the routes and sessions for your own use, then just change the route and go on with life (with some adjustments to the session possibly).
    If you are creating for uploading for others, then best to just consider the route permanent. It really is two different worlds.
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  6. #36
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    "A session runs diesels. One day you decide to expand and create a session to run steam. Easy, create a session of the route and add the corresponding consists. But you find that steam locos need water columns and coal loaders, and these assets are not on the route."


    By the way, you can add coaling towers and other items without changing the route. Just rotate the coal tower track so that it aligns with the route track (not in the route layer, of course), and place it in the route. (If you don't like the look, lower the item a bit). It will not operate of course, but you can use the Edit Trains or other driver commands to operate on the cars or engines. I have done this on Kickstarter Country 2, but can't seem to get the energy to upload the session.
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  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by llebrez View Post
    You have a route and one session. The session is dependent of the route and consists are only on this session. One day you decide to add one of these junction controllers. Add it in the route and set the list of junctions to control.

    <snip>

    If you find there was a missing command in the Jtn. controller, you would think all you have to do is go to the route and add it, same as when you started doing this. Well, the change shows now on the route but not in the session! You have to go to the session and add that change there too.
    By "go to the route and add it" I can only assume that you mean load the route only, without the session, into Surveyor. The problem here is that the junction controller has been placed in the route but its settings are stored in the session (wisely). This is exactly the same for active industries - the assets are in the route and their settings are in the session which allows you to give the same industry (or junction controller) different properties in different sessions. If you load a route only into Surveyor then the properties of all the industry assets (and junction controllers) will have the values set as default by the asset creator. The values you set are stored in the session (with a few exceptions that have been the result of "bugs"). If you load the session into Surveyor then those assets will always show the values you have set.

    A second case: You have a route. Has all the basic ingredients but not consists. A session runs diesels. One day you decide to expand and create a session to run steam. Easy, create a session of the route and add the corresponding consists. But you find that steam locos need water columns and coal loaders, and these assets are not on the route. Easy, in that session delete a short piece of track, and insert the asset pertaining to the coal and water.
    As I mentioned in another thread on this topic, years ago I conducted a number of experiments on doing just that (placing some track and active industries in session layers) and found that this really has more disadvantages than advantages. To quote from the same Wiki page ...

    It is recommended that the following objects should be placed in the "route-layer":-
    • Track and interactive industries with track
    • Track infrastructure (turntables, bridges, tunnels)
    • Signals
    • Junctions and switches
    • Track signs (speed limits, warnings, etc)

    ..and that the "route-layer" be placed at the top of the Route Layers Group.
    I place all track attached objects (and objects with track) into the same route layer and never have these problems. The only exceptions I make here is with Interlocking Towers and Enhanced Interlocking Towers which, because of a known "bug", I place in a session. But, like Junction Controllers, they are not actually attached to any track so I suspect that it does not matter with them.
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  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by pitkin View Post
    In TANE in Railhead001's "Expanded" routes, I used to attach session track to ends of his tracks and no route change was indicated. However, most route builders now are adding those end of track signals that look like a pile of logs or whatever, and I can no longer do that, as deleting them causes a route change.
    You should be able to hide those end of track signals using layer binding. Create a session layer and set it to hidden. Open the trackside tab and click edit properties on the end of track signal. Set your new hidden layer as the bound layer and the signal should disappear. It will still show up on the mini map but it won't give you a spad.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob View Post
    You should be able to hide those end of track signals using layer binding.
    I just tried that and, to my amazement, it worked. I did think that changing the binding of an object that was in a route layer to a session layer would be considered a "change to the route" but TRS19 classified it as a "change to the session" only. Obviously though, changing the parent layer would be an alteration to the route.

    This is another useful application for the bound layer!
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  10. #40
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    [QUOTE=Rob;1764052]You should be able to hide those end of track signals using layer binding. Create a session layer and set it to hidden. Open the trackside tab and click edit properties on the end of track signal. Set your new hidden layer as the bound layer and the signal should disappear. It will still show up on the mini map but it won't give you a spad.[/QUOTE


    Yes, that works great. However, I had to set the new layer to hidden before I used the properties for the track signal. Else the track the signal was attached to became part of the new layer.
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