Observation on why Trainz often feels like a model railway still...Camera perspective

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Davie_UCF

Here since 2001, Trainz!!
For years and years I have struggled to figure out why Trainz often looks less realistic than the other sims. With Trainz 2019, the lighting and other graphical additions do really give a sense of realism but in some cases it still looks like a model, as if the locos aren't as big as they should be.

I feel like i've discovered why.

That sense of scale is hindered by the Trainz camera. If in camera mode 2, you're always looking down at your train, if you try to adjust the angle otherwise you end up with the wheels cut off.
This appears to be because the centre of the camera is the top of the loco, rather than the middle or the bottom.

Example of zooming in in camera mode 2, you can tell the camera centre is high up on the loco,
2019-08-09-132914.jpg



If the camera centre was in the centre of the loco you would have a different perspective and sense of scale. It's hard to get a good example as the free roam camera is on the floor.

What are your thoughts? do you agree?
If this is really the case maybe N3V could adjust it or at least give the option?
 
This is a 2019 thread, but I have noticed that in T:ANE as well. Trying to take screenshots of trains, I seem to go from laying on the ground level to the top of the loco with one tap on the up key, and reverse with the down key. There doesn't seem to be any fine positioning to get near actual head height.
 
Forester1 said:
This is a 2019 thread, but I have noticed that in T:ANE as well. Trying to take screenshots of trains, I seem to go from laying on the ground level to the top of the loco with one tap on the up key, and reverse with the down key. There doesn't seem to be any fine positioning to get near actual head height.
Click to expand...

Try holding the Shift key whilst using the arrow keys, slomo action!
 
I think the camera has been like this since TS2009 or TS2010. Can't remember which one it was, but I remember after one of the dark blue ui releases the camera angle was higher up. I'd imagine this is a simple value that could be changed, but only N3V can answer that.
 
Cannot agree with the notion proposed by the OP, Davie_UCF
The camera mode 2 level in both TRS19 and T:ANE is highly variable - it remembers the last viewpoint you set, so simply adjust this to the angle you prefer.
Move the viewpoint by holding the right mouse button whilst panning...
To change the virtual zoom level, use the Control key whilst you rotate the mouse wheel.
There is a near-infinite degree of possibilities...
 
PC_Ace said:
Cannot agree with the notion proposed by the OP, Davie_UCF
The camera mode 2 level in both TRS19 and T:ANE is highly variable - it remembers the last viewpoint you set, so simply adjust this to the angle you prefer.
Move the viewpoint by holding the right mouse button whilst panning...
To change the virtual zoom level, use the Control key whilst you rotate the mouse wheel.
There is a near-infinite degree of possibilities...
Click to expand...

Wait...what?!
I did not know you could do this... Shame Trainz has decided to do a database repair so I can't check it for some time. If this is right then my thread means nothing and N3V need to publish things like this.
 
PC_Ace said:
Cannot agree with the notion proposed by the OP, Davie_UCF
The camera mode 2 level in both TRS19 and T:ANE is highly variable - it remembers the last viewpoint you set, so simply adjust this to the angle you prefer.
Move the viewpoint by holding the right mouse button whilst panning...
To change the virtual zoom level, use the Control key whilst you rotate the mouse wheel.
There is a near-infinite degree of possibilities...
Click to expand...

Sorry I've tried this and it changes nothing about where the centre of the camera is. It's fixed to the top of the rolling stock. Try zooming in with CTRL held, you'll see it focus on the top of the loco or stock

Zoomed in.. See you loose the bottom of the train when there's plenty more screenspace available.
view1.jpg




Then when you pan down, it's still fixed to the centre so you lose most of the train. I don't want half my screen filled with sky, the whole loco should be the focal point, especially when it would still fit in the screen when zoomed in that far if the centre of the camera was set to the middle of the loco.

view2.jpg

This shows the centre pretty well, zoomed right in, although the whole loco would fit the screen it's focus is the top and you get half a loco

view4.jpg



This is closer to how it should be, (IMO), ignoring the fence ruining the shot. I only managed this view by using a loco behind this one and it's still suffering from the centre being too high as i'm using another loco.
You even get this problem using tracking camera's as they focus on the top of the loco.

view3.jpg
 
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The secrets of N3V -- I wonder how much good information is scattered around N3V Help Files (aka Wiki) and these forums. Lots of good stuff discovered by customers but either not published by the N3V Wiki or buried within some other subject. The complexity of TRxx is its selling point. However, if ALL of the functions are not revealed in an understandable manner, we see some "goodies" only within the forum and destined to be submerged in the forum fog. Customers do NOT always have questions. But they do have need for the knowledge to ask questions.

"you don't know what you don't know".
 
boleyd said:
The secrets of N3V -- I wonder how much good information is scattered around N3V Help Files (aka Wiki) and these forums. Lots of good stuff discovered by customers but either not published by the N3V Wiki or buried within some other subject. The complexity of TRxx is its selling point. However, if ALL of the functions are not revealed in an understandable manner, we see some "goodies" only within the forum and destined to be submerged in the forum fog. Customers do NOT always have questions. But they do have need for the knowledge to ask questions.

"you don't know what you don't know".
Click to expand...

We're now a bit off topic, but just to point out that N3V is a very small outfit, with limited resources. They rely (and always have) on community support. Thankfully we have a great community, with many people willing to help out via the forums.
 
Last edited:
Not seeing what the problem is with Camera 2?

All done on Camera 2, using mouse wheel and arrow keys.




 
Davie_UCF - Still disagree with the statement that in Trainz camera mode 2 that you are 'always looking down on your loco'.
Here's a shot from one of my routes and sessions in Driver mode showing a camera mode 2 viewpoint. Zooming in appears to focus on the midpoint (and not the top) of the locomotive.

pov.jpg


This might vary from loco to loco, but in general, for most consists, the focal point is the selected locomotive's or wagon's mid-point.
Holding down the right mouse button - or using the arrow keys - will pan your point of view around that focal point. Once you achieve the view you like, try switching to another loco in the session and see how the chosen viewpoint is replicated there.
You can also move your camera's frame of reference/ focal point and depth of field inside your cab and some wagons (where design has allowed) in Camera mode 1. Use the ] and [ keys to cycle through various presets...

cab_pov.jpg


Using the Ctrl key to zoom in and out - or simply using the mouse wheel, without the Ctrl key whilst in any camera mode, allows for fine control over your point of view (POV).
Hope this helps!
 
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I've been using Trainz since 2003 so I have a grasp of moving the view about, I just didn't know about holding CTRL.

Most of the examples posted are at distance. If you were to zoom in I don't think you could get the loco to fit the screen.
Maybe it's different on different locos, I'll have to look.

But I can't get a good close up shot of the train feeling big without it cutting half of it off and the rest of the screen being either the sky or floor.
 
I agree with Dave. All your example shots show the top of the locos at the vertical center of the shot. So bottom half is the loco and the top half it empty of the loco. Crop the upper third of any image and you will have the composition that he wants. Ok, cropping distorts the aspect ratio.

If you want to see the difference. Toggle between chase view (2) and Free Roam (4).

William
 
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wreeder - Perfectly aware of the wonders of Free Roaming Camera Mode, the one I tend to use most.
Underscores the fact that there is heaps more versatility available to the user in Driver mode for achieving the camera viewpoint they need/ prefer.
Discussion and screenies above simply to point out the factual error of many of the OP's initial observation/ opinions and conclusions relating to Camera Mode 2.
The moral of the story here is that TRS19 and T:ANE users should learn to make the most of ALL of the available camera modes - and augmenting shortcut and directional arrow keys/ mouse controls - before they suggest that Trainz has inferior viewing modes compared to other sims. That is simply not correct.
 
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Interesting. Just use the arrow keys, up, down, left and right. This will change the camera view in chase mode, freeview, cab. Also Lineside (when not viewing in lineside camera). When the shift key is held this will slow the camera movements.

Using mouse wheel will zoom in and out.

When wanting a close up, just use mouse wheel and in combination with the arrows to get the suitable view wanted.

This is chase camera where the down arrow key was used to get the lowered look and then swung a little to the left or right with the other directional arrow keys.
My-Trainz-Screenshot-Image.jpg


A close up using the arrow keys and mouse wheel combo in chase mode 2:
Let-there-be-snow..jpg


Even closer without cutting off
My-Trainz-Screenshot-Image.jpg


If trainz has been paused while a screenshot taken, the train will need to clicked on again to use the zoom and directional keys.
 
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Just try this the next time you are setting up a screenshot. Line it up as you have always done and then press the "4" key. Notice the shift? You will also find that you can point the camera to any part of the scene.

William
 
Davie_UCF said:
Sorry I've tried this and it changes nothing about where the centre of the camera is. It's fixed to the top of the rolling stock.
Click to expand...

I think the camera centres on the 'origin' of the loco, which is set by the person who created the asset. Happy to be corrected on this though.

You'll notice where the origin of the object / loco is when you try to click and drag it in surveyor. I set my asset's origin to zero on the XYZ axis, but I've come across assets where this isn't the case and moving them around (or if it's rolling stock, the external view) can seem counterintuitive.
 
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