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Thread: 1914 UK East Coast Joint Stock Carriage Roster

  1. #31
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    Default A D.105 and D.27 pairing

    Thanks to some correspondence I can evolve the use of the 53ft6in D.105 RC. The correspondent kindly reported an article by the late John Dawson. Several things were revealed. Firstly, that since the N.E.R. had no vestibule carriages to pair with them the company modified three Diagram 27 Van Lavatory Composites by fitting a single vestibule connection to the compartment end of the carriage. This makes them similar to the E.C.J.S. Diagram 50 Brake Thirds. This provided the company with three semi-BCKs to pair with the three RCs and must have been a revelation for North Eastern passengers on the main line. Secondly, the RC No. 765 lasted in to the 1930s. Towards the end of its life in the 1930s it was paired with two or three vestibule carriages formed the 6.20 am Newcastle to Leeds breakfast service and returned to Newcastle as a Luncheon car portion. It was also mentioned that the G.N.o.S. 8.00 am Aberdeen to Inverness service utilising N.B.R. No. 463 was a very busy service which also conveyed through sleeping cars from London to Lossiemouth.

    When I look at the 1914 TCWI I see that the NE Brake Compo 4 axle 26T15Cwt 9 1st Class seats and 18 3rd Class seats matches the as-built capacity of the D.27 and is only 9Cwt heavier than the as-built D.27. A vestibule connection can easily have added 9Cwt to the as built weight. However, there is also the Leeds to Edinburgh portion, which also has an N.E. Brake Compo having the same axle count, weight and seating capacity of the D.27 paired with the D.105. I wonder if this was the D.27 rendered redundant by the 1913 sale of No.1855? There wa sno mention of the N.B.R. also buying the paired D.27 semi-BCK. This would have provided a 3-carriage corridor connected portion north of Newcastle in 1914. it grew to four carriages on Mondays, Tuesdays, Fridays and Saturdays with the addition of a Third on the leeds to Edinburgh portion, but this appears to have been a 1909 D.155 TO seating 42 making it a real 2-carriage dining set on those days. On those days at least it would seem the D.105 3d Class end was marshalled facing the north end of the train and the Newcastle to Edinburgh portion was inserted in to the train behind the Leeds portion. All carriages behind the D.27 semi-BCK were non-corridor York and Sheffield to Edinburgh carriages. I wonder how many shifted themselves to the corridor connected part of the train at Newcastle? That part of the train offered 28 1st Class compared to 58 1st Class in the non-corridor section and 51 3rd Class (WThO)/93 3rd Class (MTFSO) compared to 298 3rd Class in the non-corriodor section. Was there a rush at Newcastle to try and beat passengers embarking at Newcastle to the dining seats?

    Diagram 27 Van Lavatory Composite of 1898. Ten built, Nos 2703 - 2712. I do not know which ones were converted with the addition of a single vestibule corridor connection.
    Last edited by borderreiver; June 7th, 2020 at 06:31 AM. Reason: More to say

  2. #32
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    Default 1914 - The ECJS Summer Daytime Anglo - Scottish Expresses

    Some screenshot representations of the daytime ECJS express passenger services in 1914

    1. The 9.50 am. Kings Cross to Edinburgh








    This is the first part of "The Scotch Express", split in to two parts for the summer season and is the faster by five minutes to Edinburgh at eight hours ten minutes compared to the 10 am departure.



    2. The 10.0 am. Kings Cross - Edinburgh, Aberdeen, Perth and Glasgow







    This is the second part of "The Scotch Express", split in to two parts for the summer season.


    3. The 10.35 am Kings Cross - Edinburgh and Glasgow.








    4. the 11.20 am. Kings Cross - North Berwick, Edinburgh, Perth and Montrose








    5. The 2.20 pm Kings Cross - Edinburgh (Saturdays Excepted)








    This train ran on a Saturday with a slightly different consist, which will be the subject of a later post.

  3. #33
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    Default

    Borderreiver, thanks for the screenshots! Would it be possible for you upload these configurations as consists, or at least post kuids? It would be great to be running prototypical consists on this route!
    “We are all travelers in the wilderness of this world, and the best we can find in our travels is an honest friend.” - R.L.S.

  4. #34
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    Default

    Configurations are provided earlier in this post.
    Associated kuids I believe are generally nearly all shareware, Frank will confirm this.
    The shareware items are available from Paul web site, http://www.paulztrainz.com
    He will only require the Diagram numbers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Forester1 View Post
    Borderreiver, thanks for the screenshots! Would it be possible for you upload these configurations as consists, or at least post kuids? It would be great to be running prototypical consists on this route!
    JackDownUnder

  5. #35
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    Default

    Thanks Jack.
    The E.C.J.S. carriages are payware from PaulzTrainz and I had him build all the types present on the day expresses on the ECML in the summer of 1914.
    This was a considerable project.
    I admit to tinkering with teak finishes since it is a challenge to reproduce the range of finishes which were visible on the ECML in pre-grouping and LNER days.
    As usual, I will direct people to the Steve Banks webiste where he has extensive shots, some in colour no less, of LNER teak carriages.
    White roofs are almost unicorn-like in their rarity (they ran behind steam locos belching out smoke, embers and ash after all) and on some the finish on individual panels varies!

    The carriages for the overnight expresses run to a number of types and I have not yet had the inclination to commission them.

    Regards
    Frank
    Last edited by borderreiver; December 9th, 2020 at 11:58 PM.

  6. #36
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    Default 162 Carriages to ECJS diagrams available for the Pre-grouping period

    Here is a list of the kuids.
    162 carriages to ECJS designs for the ECJS, LNER and BR periods but 46 carriages for the ECJS period up to 1922.

    <kuid:177548:152611419> ECJS 46'6' BG Diag 36 W
    <kuid:177548:172611419> ECJS 46'6' BG Diag 42 W
    <kuid:177548:16261443> ECJS 29' BV Diag 37 1900-22
    <kuid:177548:15261151> ECJS 52' RK Diag 80A 1914-22
    <kuid:177548:182631> ECJS 65'6' CK Diag 12 1900-22
    <kuid:177548:15299111> ECJS 58'6' CK Diag 2A 1911-22
    <kuid:177548:162614439> ECJS 29' BV Diag 37 1900-22 W
    <kuid:177548:182621> ECJS 53'6' CG Diag 2 1914-22
    <kuid:177548:15261141> ECJS 46'6' BG Diag 36
    <kuid:177548:17261141> ECJS 46'6' BG Diag 42
    <kuid:177548:124286> ECJS 53'6' FK Diag 56A 1914-22
    <kuid:177548:124438> ECJS 53'6' TK Diag 19 1903-22
    <kuid:177548:-1888748991> ECJS 58'6' TO Diag 29A 193 1914-22
    <kuid:177548:1626112129> ECJS 56'6' BG Diag 39B W
    <kuid:177548:15261121> ECJS 56'6' BG Diag 39
    <kuid:177548:1242881> ECJS 53'6' TK Diag 23 1903-22
    <kuid:177548:12428664> ECJS 55' RTP Diag 31 64 1902-22
    <kuid:177548:12428715> ECJS 55' TO Diag 15 14 1902-22
    <kuid:177548:1242871> ECJS 61'6' BTK Diag 52 1902-22
    <kuid:177548:15261111> ECJS 56'6' BG Diag 35
    <kuid:177548:15296111> ECJS 58'6' TK Diag 31A 1921-22
    <kuid:177548:-1888758993> ECJS 58'6' FO Diag 75A 191 1914-22
    <kuid:177548:152611119> ECJS 56'6' BG Diag 35 W
    <kuid:177548:182611> ECJS 65'6' BCK Diag 45 1905-22
    <kuid:177548:152611219> ECJS 56'6' BG Diag 39 W
    <kuid:177548:16261122> ECJS 56'6' BG Diag 39B
    <kuid:177548:15297111> ECJS 58'6' BTK Diag 49 1906-22
    <kuid:177548:15298111> ECJS 58'6' BTK Diag 49A 1914-22
    <kuid:177548:124401> ECJS 65'6' BCK Diag 46 1906-22
    <kuid:177548:15299121> ECJS 58'6' CK Diag 3A 1913-22
    <kuid:177548:124411> ECJS 58'6' FK Diag 58 1908-22
    <kuid:177548:-1888758994> ECJS 58'6' FO Diag 75A 190 1914-22
    <kuid:177548:15295111> ECJS 58'6' TK Diag 34 1906-22
    <kuid:177548:-1888748992> ECJS 58'6' TO Diag 29A 192 1914-22
    <kuid:177548:182640> ECJS 59'6' BTK Diag 50 1897-22
    <kuid:177548:15299141> ECJS 61'6' CG Diag 2B 1914-22
    <kuid:177548:1242342> ECJS 61' BCK Diag 47 1903-22
    <kuid:177548:124287310> ECJS 62' RF Diag 76A 310 1900-22
    <kuid:177548:124286332> ECJS 62' RF Diag 77A 332 1913-22
    <kuid:177548:124287316> ECJS 63'8' RC Diag 79 316 1900-22
    <kuid:177548:124286197> ECJS 64'2' RC Diag 78 197 1902-22
    <kuid:177548:124286313> ECJS 64'6' RTP Diag 30 313 1900-22
    <kuid:177548:1243301> ECJS 65'2' CK Diag 13 1900-22
    <kuid:177548:124301> ECJS 65'6' CG Diag 6 1906-22
    <kuid:177548:124287304> ECJS 65'6' RTP Diag 29 304 1900-22
    <kuid:177548:124287354> ECJS 65'6' TO Diag 33 354 1902-22

    A year or so back I also had Paul upgrade the bogies and sent new HD lettering.

  7. #37
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    Default

    Awesome. Thank you very much for posting these! Not DLS, looks like maybe Paul's Trainz?
    Last edited by Forester1; December 9th, 2020 at 08:34 PM.
    “We are all travelers in the wilderness of this world, and the best we can find in our travels is an honest friend.” - R.L.S.

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