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Thread: Looking for some answers and opinions

  1. #1
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    Default Looking for some answers and opinions

    First of all, let me say that I love this program: it lets me do what I wish I had the room in this tiny house to do for real. But, I am also getting fed up with many issues that I am having.

    For instance, I just created a new layout. Everything was looking good and I had used the thingy to randomly place trees, bushes, etc all over the 12 baseboards. (This was just to be a nice country session to watch all the scenery go by and enjoy the view. After manually go over all the track and moving trees off of the track, it was starting to look pretty good. But, why do I occasionally come across a tree or bush that refuses to be moved or deleted? I have to then remember exactly where it is, exit the game completely, and then go back in and try to find the offending tree which will now allow me to move it?

    After getting everything moved (about 4 hours worth of work) I put a locomotive on the track to do a test run. First problem: I get an error that the station that I am using has a null reference in line 52. Station looks good: no problems seen. OK: will just ignore. I place the loco in front of the station and go into the drive menu. I have no controls for the loco. I do have the screen that tells me speed and other things, but no controls to move the loco. I save and exit and go back in. Still no controls. So, I manually move the loco away from the station and go to drive menu. Now I have controls. I start to move the loco. This is a steam loco that I had downloaded a few nights ago. Loco starts to move. But, before I go to cab view, I see drive wheels and drive rods "floating" in the air above the loco! I know the routine: save, exit, go back in. Same thing: pieces floating in space. So, I change locos. This one will not allow me to have controls as long as it is parked in front of the station either. Move loco manually and start driving. I get maybe 20 seconds into drive and there is a tree right in the middle of the track! Did I miss one yesterday? I doubt it because I went over all of the track slowly. Anyhow, I move tree and immediately go over the whole track again from ground level. (Track ended up being over 40 miles long: this took awhile.) Found 2 more offending trees and moved them. I also have learned to save my progress constantly.

    Go back to drive mode and start driving. Found another tree on track. Exited drive, moved tree. Back to driving. Found one more tree and moved it. Now, I can go completely around without any issues. (I sat and stared at this screen for about 25 minutes while loco made it's way back the the station.) Life is good again except that I still cannot start my train from the station because I have no controls. I can stop in front of the station and all is good, but if I leave that train and then come back to it, no controls again. Enough frustration and time to go to bed.

    New morning and I enter drive mode. Still no controls: move manually and get controls back again. Start driving. Get error for station. Ignore for now. Another tree in middle of track. Keep driving: found 3 more trees on track.

    Autosave sometimes boots me out of game. Trees grow over night in middle of track. Phantom steam engine parts floating about in space. No controls in front of station. Null reference in station. DLS sloooow and half the stuff that I get downloaded has errors. Half of the things I try to download tell me that I don't have access to download them: why are they there? I know about a FCT, but will I still have the problems of not having access to certain items? Will I still have phantom parts floating in the air?

    I am thinking about moving up to 2019. But, should I? If this 2 year old program still has all of these issues, should I expect more from a newer program?

    I had some of these issues with my old machine. Bought new machine. Game runs smoother, but still issues. This machine is a Ryzen 7 2700, 16G dual memory RAM. Nvidia 8 gig RTX 2070 video. I don't think that the machine is the issue. I normally use Linux for everything, so the ONLY thing installed on this fresh version of Win10 is Trainz. Win10 fully updated. Drive scanned for errors: none found.

    Is 2019 more stable than 2017? If I upgrade, should I expect more or less issues than I am having now? I am assuming that this machine has more than enough power to run 2019: does it?

    Thanks for listening. I am going to relax now and start painting 120 feet of chain link fence.

  2. #2

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    TRS19 will have the ability to edit as you drive in future editions being tested now. A train placed at an active station will not give you control until the station script has finished doing what it has to. Every new version of trainz will have different aspects of its performance improved which may make older content less reliable. Most content is updated for the newer versions but some are just too old and need a complete rebuild. TRS19 has a completely different look to that of earlier versions and saves in a different way. You also need to check for faulty assets in CM and repair or delete them.

  3. #3
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    If there are trees in the track, then you either put them there, or perhaps you are trying to load sessions that no longer sync with the route.

  4. #4
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    I make layouts like I used to do as a kid. There is just track, scenery, and trains moving. There are no "orders" waiting. Everything is manually controlled.

    If I put a different station there, it works fine. But, I like the station that is there now and do not wish to replace it and move scenery, parking lots, etc.

    The trees growing over night. I had a clean track: no obstructions. I literally stared out of the window of the cab for the entire length of the track. Nothing was there. Next morning, trees are there.

    This was kinda the point of my post: am I to expect the same weird problems on 2019? Newer, different weird problems? I do not mind spending the money: that is not the issue. But, it kind of reminds me of Windows: upgrade for $100 from 7 to 8. Spend another $100 and upgrade from 8 to 10. Old problems: some are gone, some remain. Some new problems arise. Should I expect life to be better with 2019?

  5. #5
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    I have a feeling this has something to do with Layers.

    When you open your route for editing, open the SESSION for editing. DO NOT open the ROUTE for editing. When you are done, merge the layers THEN save.

    As to the Trainz version that is best, TRS2019 has all the other versions beat by long shot, IMHO.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by autodctr View Post
    If I put a different station there, it works fine. But, I like the station that is there now and do not wish to replace it and move scenery, parking lots, etc.
    If the station is faulty then it needs to be fixed - you can't just ignore it. It will probably still be faulty in TRS2019. A starting point would be to indicate the KUIDs for the station and the loco and ask whether other people have a similar problem.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by pitkin View Post
    If there are trees in the track, then you either put them there, or perhaps you are trying to load sessions that no longer sync with the route.
    I am not loading a drive session because up to this point I have not saved a drive session. If I don't get the whole way around without finding a problem, I don't save the session but rather go back into surveyor and fix the issue. I put one fairly fast loco on the track to run it and find what needs to be fixed, changed, moved, etc. After making a complete circuit with no problems, then I put trains on the tracks and operate them.

  8. #8
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    I agree with the others that while they are not perfect the later versions of Trainz do appear to be an improvement on their predecessors. As for trees particularly when you have a lot of them they do seem to produce the odd ghost which tend not to want to be directly deleted. I have found however that by saving your work, closing Trainz back to the startup screen then opening it again the ghosts tend to disappear but I have no idea why they occur. Peter

  9. #9
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    If you can't get things worked out you might consider building your next route in small steps. First, lay your main line and add what you need to run trains. Signals, crossing, etc etc. At that point (having only the main) place some power and run the main line. See how it operates, fix any issues. Make double sure signals and such are working as expected. Then add power and rolling stock and save a session or two. Run this for several days and see how it performs. Fix any issues. After that ad spurs, industries, etc. Test. Then, in steps, add everything else. Run and test all along the way.

    After doing this a few times then you can build in any sequence that fits you....

    As a new user I find one of my problems is keeping FIRM CONTROL of what is Route layer and what is Session layer... These things are really basic but that i tend to forget about them just for that reason..
    Last edited by 1611mac; June 13th, 2019 at 05:49 AM.
    Win 10: TRS19-100240: ASUS B450M-A/CSM, GTX 1060-6 Windforce, 1TB EVO SSD, 224GB system SSD
    (& iMac and MBP installs)


  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1611mac View Post
    If you can't get things worked out you might consider building your next route in small steps. First, lay your main line and add what you need to run trains. Signals, crossing, etc etc. At that point (having only the main) place some power and run the main line. See how it operates, fix any issues. Make double sure signals and such are working as expected. Then add power and rolling stock and save a session or two. Run this for several days and see how it performs. Fix any issues. After that ad spurs, industries, etc. Test. Then, in steps, add everything else. Run and test all along the way.

    After doing this a few times then you can build in any sequence that fits you....

    As a new user I find one of my problems is keeping FIRM CONTROL of what is Route layer and what is Session layer... These things are really basic but that i tend to forget about them just for that reason..
    You have outlined the process I have used since I first installed TRS2004 in December 2003.

    Build tiny bits at a time. Work out the track to ensure it's smooth, signals work properly. Test, landscape and move on. I used to complete about 6 baseboards a day this way. I agree the layers thing does get confusing because it shares the same names as the two different modes of building/creating, and running. As if that's enough, to add insult to injury, there's no indication which mode you're in until you find out too late and usually after you've saved something.

    What I do is do things as I did in TRS2004 thru TS12, and still do this today with TRS19.

    I think of the route editor for everything that pertains to building permanent stuff, and sessions pertaining to volatile things and work separately and accordingly. People will jump in on this and say to do everything in the session editor then merge the layer back, but try my KISS method.

    --- Build the route, landscape, texture, fiddle with track, buildings, etc. in "Edit Route".

    Save as required. When editing the route only, there maybe a prompt to save a default session initially. Don't do that and choose manually if necessary the option to save route only.

    --- Setting up trains, signals if necessary, portals, setting up driver schedules and industries is done in the Session editor.

    After doing session stuff, save session only and don't save the route. There is an exception with TRS19, however, because there will be a prompt to save the route too, and you need to do that, otherwise, things go weird.

    With the upcoming live-editing and unified session/route/driver editing mode, this issue will be mute, but when this is implemented into production is unknown.
    John
    Trainz User Since: 12-2003
    Trainz User ID: 124863
    T:ANE Build: 94829
    TRS2019: 98592

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by JCitron View Post
    You have outlined the process I have used since I first installed TRS2004 in December 2003.


    With the upcoming live-editing and unified session/route/driver editing mode, this issue will be mute, but when this is implemented into production is unknown.

    Will TRS2019 automatically be updated when that becomes available or will that me a new program and more money? As I said before, the money isn't the issue. But, I feel like it is going the way of Windows: give me more money and I will give you something better for now.

    Also, does my machine have enough power to run 2019? I have a Ryzen 7-2700, 16 gig dual channel memory, RTX 2070 w/8G.

    Thank you all for your replies!

  12. #12
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    If you are working in the session editor and then merge into the route, then you are putting all sorts of assets into the route that do not belong there. The more assets in the route that could/should have been in a named session, then the harder it is for someone to write a session for use on your route. They cannot delete or move these objects because they are in your route.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by pitkin View Post
    If you are working in the session editor and then merge into the route, then you are putting all sorts of assets into the route that do not belong there. The more assets in the route that could/should have been in a named session, then the harder it is for someone to write a session for use on your route. They cannot delete or move these objects because they are in your route.
    Maybe I am not making myself clear. I know that there is a ton more that I could do in this program, but I am using it as probably the simplest way possible. I have no "orders" to run. My goal is exactly what I had as a kid: make tracks and scenery, put trains on them, and watch them go around and around. Each train on its own track. Some longer tracks may have 2 trains on them, but both are manually controlled: no AI assistance. I'll probably have a very small yard to keep a few pieces of rolling stock in to change out at some point. No automatic crossing gates yet (although I will probably try that at some point). Think back to your Christmas layout: simple enough for an 8 year old to operate.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by autodctr View Post
    Maybe I am not making myself clear. I know that there is a ton more that I could do in this program, but I am using it as probably the simplest way possible. I have no "orders" to run. My goal is exactly what I had as a kid: make tracks and scenery, put trains on them, and watch them go around and around. Each train on its own track. Some longer tracks may have 2 trains on them, but both are manually controlled: no AI assistance. I'll probably have a very small yard to keep a few pieces of rolling stock in to change out at some point. No automatic crossing gates yet (although I will probably try that at some point). Think back to your Christmas layout: simple enough for an 8 year old to operate.

    My comments were directed more toward the later posts. However, separating route and session still makes it easier to isolate problems.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by autodctr View Post
    Will TRS2019 automatically be updated when that becomes available or will that me a new program and more money? As I said before, the money isn't the issue. But, I feel like it is going the way of Windows: give me more money and I will give you something better for now.

    Also, does my machine have enough power to run 2019? I have a Ryzen 7-2700, 16 gig dual channel memory, RTX 2070 w/8G.

    Thank you all for your replies!
    Your machine has plenty of power to run TRS19 (TRS2019).

    TRS19 is updated just like other Trainz versions have been in the past, unlike TMR2017 which was a niche product. There are multiple ways of purchasing TRS19, however, either subscription and going for the top @14.99 per month, sometimes less if it's on sale, and this includes the First Class Ticket plus a host of other stuff. The gold gives you access to the new Trainz-Plus that has some new features to test that may or may not, but from what we were told mostly may, make it into newer releases of TRS2019, content discounts, subscription to content, etc.

    If you opt for the full-out product, and not the silver or gold packages, you will have to wait for updates to make it into the program cycle with service packs excluded since they are bug fixes and not features. Service packs as always have been free, but full program updates to TRS2000, or whatever it'll be called are not free. This is typical of most software companies these days.

    I think, and I don't want to get your hopes up, because you own TMR2017, you'll get those routes again in TRS2019 so nothing is lost in that respect.


    I hope this 'splains it well.
    Last edited by JCitron; Yesterday at 06:31 PM.
    John
    Trainz User Since: 12-2003
    Trainz User ID: 124863
    T:ANE Build: 94829
    TRS2019: 98592

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