TRS19 Content delivery strategy causing major route development problems

I have been working on a layout for TRS19 for quite some time now, when it would be ready I'd upload it to the DLS so I was very careful with which assets to use, one of my rules was, ..only from the DLS, no 3rd party websites cause I didn't want people having to go to other websites ( with the chance that the links to them could become dead after some time ) to download anything. But now with this sh*t going on I stopped working on the layout and won't upload it to the DLS...thank you so much , N3V..., nice job!

Ron

I hope you wait and see how this plays out before giving up on sharing your creations. I doubt things are going to remain as they are right now.
 
oh Pitkin...the route stays as it is now..for now, when ( or maybe it is better to say 'if' ) N3V is going to correct this mess I'll pick it up again, but only then. I like to build routes, I am no database engineer.

Ron
 
Many thanks for bringing this to our attention, MSGSapper. It seems that uploading a route to the DLS is more trouble than it's worth, thanks to the devs. I'm with RW912, though I've used a few 3rd party assets, I've tried to document them carefully to make them easy to find, but this issue puts the kibosh on it. Maybe send it to a few friends, leave it at that. It never ends, does it.

Thanks Again, MSGSapper,
smyers
 
oh Pitkin...the route stays as it is now..for now, when ( or maybe it is better to say 'if' ) N3V is going to correct this mess I'll pick it up again, but only then. I like to build routes, I am no database engineer.

Ron


I am, actually:). Anyway, I think a way out of this mess is for the developers to write an SQL (database query language) program that searches daily for uploads that include the offending assets and automatically places them on the DLS. There will probably not be that many of them.
 
Many thanks for bringing this to our attention, MSGSapper. It seems that uploading a route to the DLS is more trouble than it's worth, thanks to the devs. I'm with RW912, though I've used a few 3rd party assets, I've tried to document them carefully to make them easy to find, but this issue puts the kibosh on it. Maybe send it to a few friends, leave it at that. It never ends, does it.

Thanks Again, MSGSapper,
smyers

What makes this situation worse is that:

a. I am upgrading my 14 existing U.S. based T:ANE routes. These routes all had content that was all previously either in T:ANE or on the DLS.

b. A number of the items that were in those routes has been moved out of TRS19 and the DLS to the DLCs.

c. The regional editions won't be able to to use my U.S. based routes because some of the content, that was previous in TANE or on the DLS, will now be in the free European DLCs, which I have been told some regions will not be able to access.

For us freeware route developers to be successful we need to be able to count on location stability for the content items contained in our route. Constantly moving them around to different platforms does not help us. The ideal situation for us route developers would be to have the content only on the DLS. That way there is no question of where content items are located and regardless of Trainz version you can still get what you need. When someone purchases Trainz they should be given a 30 day FCT so they can get whatever they need from the DLS. That would be a lot easier for N3V to deal then the current situation.

I sometimes wonder if N3V goes out of there way to make things more difficult for us content/route developers with each new major version of Trainz. Of all the major versions I have had to upgrade my routes to, TRS19 has been the worst experience so far, and caused me the most headaches. As an example I spent all yesterday dealing with tech support issues for one of my TRS19 routes that were caused by this problem and some problems in TRS19.

Bob
 
Unfortunately anything you upload to the DLS can be used by N3V, as stated in the upload agreement that no one reads. ;o)
But there is no need to have it marked as payware when delivered to whoever buys the DLC. N3V gets the right to distribute it with a DLC package, but they should not also be making it uneditable and undeletable by changing it from freeware to payware.

I just came across yet another example (built-in, not payware, but the principle is the same).

C&O Hinton Division uses a number of trackside grass splines that get denser instead of lighter as they get farther away. The error is a simple oversight in the LOD config, but it can't be changed because the splines are now built-in. These are simple grass splines. They are on the DLS and could be easily downloaded and fixed, except that built-in assets can't be replaced! There is no reason for them to be built in, in exactly the same way that there is no reason for lots of other assets to become payware. A simple problem that affects performance as well as appearance, in a sim that is supposedly based on user-supported content, that the user cannot fix.
 
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Of all the major versions I have had to upgrade my routes to, TRS19 has been the worst experience so far,


Gosh..and I don't have even a tiny fraction of the knowledge and experience you guys do. Just tryin' to make a simple route, see if I can even do it at all, let alone produce some of the beauties you have. I barley have an idea of how to build a route even without manufactured difficulty like this. It seems this DLS thing has always been a problem of one sort or another.
smyers
 
Gosh..and I don't have even a tiny fraction of the knowledge and experience you guys do. Just tryin' to make a simple route, see if I can even do it at all, let alone produce some of the beauties you have. I barley have an idea of how to build a route even without manufactured difficulty like this. It seems this DLS thing has always been a problem of one sort or another.
smyers



Route creation includes hard work, repeated successes and failures, and learning from other's routes. This DLS flap, although serious for advanced route creators, should not be used as an excuse to give up before you start. The situation that scripters face is much worse in my experience.
 
These events may be the result of marketing first, program data impact second. N3V is, in my opinion, infamous for all of the various versions and the significance of the major differences with those products over the past many years. Once you disperse the base program into regional programs with different data sets, trouble will occur. Whoever is managing the software process is not looking at the big picture as each asset is relegated to a unique status. It costs time (money) to take changes through an association process to assess impact on existing processes. The money is an obvious negative to a professional process. Time is translated to income not accrued, when there are delays in a product change. Little attention is paid to a broad assessment of impact in favor of rapid deployment and clean things up later.
 
I am not a route developer, and many of these issues are going over my head. But, this sounds like a VERY serious lack of support from N3V for route developers, and I am really disappointed that no one from N3V has not weighed in here on this yet, even with a "we are aware of the problems....".

Where are you N3V?

(Bottom line for me: I love TRS19 and I know that software is an extremely complex and difficult business. Tony is very good at working on critical issues, but I'd like to see the issues in this thread be publicly acknowledged by N3V.)
 
Apparently the only relatively safe strategy is to rely exclusively on items on the DLS. In effect that's what I do, since built-in items frequently can't be renamed which makes them impossible to find in a very large base of installed assets. This is particularly true of items which are labeled payware, and which I automatically disable. A waste of disk space as far as I'm concerned. (This of course doesn't apply to dependencies such as engine sounds or bogies which are not usually chosen directly by the route designer, though even these can snarl things up after an upgrade.)

Unfortunately, there have been cases of items formerly available on the DLS which in later versions became payware, with the result that even attempting to install an older version from a previous installation of Trainz is instantly obsoleted upon submitting. There seems to be no rhyme or reason at all to how this issue is handled. Sadly, this has become yet another reason for not upgrading, which I would think would be the opposite of what N3V management intended.

--Lamont
 
I've had several of my assets on the DLS become integrated into DLC or the base game. In all cases, the original asset is still on the DLS; and the built-in / payware copy has kept the same KUID. So, if someone used one of those assets in a route, it would still be available on the DLS for people w/o the built-in / payware copy.
On a related note, N3V has been good about reverting to 'built-in' any assets that have been incorrectly marked as payware, so they do seem to be paying attention and responsive to the issue.

Curtis
 
Okay let me try to summarize this whole thing up.
1. Ts19 doesn't seem to play well when it comes to content creation.
2. It's making third party content providers jump through hoops just to get routes ready for upload.
3. Even once uploaded there is the issue of what is the base trz19 game with the regional editions making it harder.
4. Then there is the turning of content into either dlc or built-in.

Now add on to that content being replaced or omitted and the fact that even now almost 6 months after the supposed release date for the retail boxed version it's been delayed again until June.
 
Basically I had 3 routes I put into TS19 from Tane and low and behold assets started becoming unavailable as I was trying to transform them...
So I deleted them and switched back to TANE...
 
Take it no one has noticed the large amount of previously builtin / Payware assets being put on the DLS in the last month or so? Looks to me to be correcting the stuff marked as payware which shouldn't have been, might be an idea to check for out of date stuff, which might solve some of these problems, it might not but not having any issues whith unavailable stuff here.
 
Ya I noticed that and also knew they were gonna do such but for me., I downloaded a few assets and half showed up faulty...
I am just trying to get a few routes finally completed...
I am sure they'll get it under control eventually...

Dave =)
 
There may not be that many problems. We will never know if you don't make it available.

OK. I opened the latest version of my route in Content Manager and listed Recursive Dependecies.

There are hundreds of Installed, Payware items, some of them critical to the BC&SJ route (like the '50s automobiles). How about the JR wood grade crossing?

I'm still pretty new to Trainz (only TRS19 so far) and I didn't really understand (and probably still don't) the ramifications of assets selection.

I have a gold membership and without realizing what I was doing I just picked assets that looked good to put in the route.

Yikes there are a lot of payware items in there.

If I wanted to spend the time replacing the items for which I can find good, non payware replacements, how does one track down the location of the instances of a particular item used in a large route when I'm not sure where they are located (ie a particular tree type lost in vast expanses of forest)?

How does one tell which DLC content packs or built-in content packs (from the gold membership) one has installed?

H. Fithers

ps. My fithers are definitely ruffled by all this!!!!!!!!!!!! {:<)
 
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