Does this bother anyone else?

It's always a bit of a struggle for me to set up a good image for a thumbnail and write a coherent description, but since I've sometimes spent a lot of time making the textures it would be silly not to finish everything up properly before uploading the model. Not doing a proper thumbnail and description would be spoiling the ship for a ha'penth of tar as my grandmother used to say.

When it comes to downloads from the DLS I've always avoided the ones with foreign language titles and/or no thumbnail or description and I don't think I've missed out on very much that was worth having.

Some of the items with no description tend to be the multiple clones of Russian assets that the copier couldn't be a**ed to add their own description or thumbnail.

KotangaGirl said:

It's always a bit of a struggle for me to set up a good image for a thumbnail and write a coherent description

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That seems like a task that your testers would be able to take on - a small contribution to the project in addition to their testing.

Picking up on a point from harpman, it would be really useful if you could have a information for a session as to the route it matches. I doubt that the config file structure could be changed, but either a naming convention, or details in the description would be really helpful.

The other problem is that the ipad and android (?) creators have to store their routes on the DLS, so it gets clogged up with test routes, work in progress etc. Similarly, the number of route clones for multiplayer games tends to hide the original route. It's probably too late for a bid DLS clean-up, but with TS19 (only) installed, I can filter these out..

Colin

pware said:

I agree about the lack of creator supplied information in session descriptions but if you download the session CM will automatically download the route it requires (if you do not already have it).
Trainz users come from all over the world and English is often not their native language.

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I don't care for the idea that I need to download an entire route and all its assets just to find out what the session runs on. Sure, I can always delete the session and route if it isn't something I want, but I'm still stuck with a bunch of associated assets I probably don't want/need. I refuse to download sessions where the author can't even be bothered to put a note in that tells me what route it's written for.

How much effort would that take? The same goes for routes that are named "New Route." Even if the description is in a foreign language at least that tells me something.

ColPrice2002 said:

-snip-
The other problem is that the ipad and android (?) creators have to store their routes on the DLS, so it gets clogged up with test routes, work in progress etc. Similarly, the number of route clones for multiplayer games tends to hide the original route. It's probably too late for a bid DLS clean-up, but with TS19 (only) installed, I can filter these out..
Colin

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RE: "but with TRS19 (only) installed, I can filter these out.."

- What CM filter settings do you set to to this please?

The lack of description/image really annoys me as well. Sometimes even the NAME of the item is misleading or doesn't relate to what the item actually is. It can take hours to make a 3D model for a locomotive, but it only takes a couple minutes to write a description and take a screenshot of it. For those of us without a first-class ticket, downloading a poorly-described item "just to find out" and (probably) deleting it later would take significant time. So, I feel like every item should have, at bare minimum:

- A name that tells you what it is (i.e. "N&W SD40")
- Screenshot of it, either from the modeling software used to create it or taken in surveyor
- A BRIEF description, including:

-- For things like handrails that are just a dependency for something else, say so at the top and give the KUID
-- for rolling stock, what gauge is it and what products (if any) is it set up to carry. Also say what kind of couplers it has, because in a lot of the thumbnails it can be hard to tell.
-- for industries, is it interactive and what does it produce/consume
-- if it is designed to interact with another item you've made, describe it and provide the KUID
-- any animations
-- Note that I said a BRIEF description. I also don't appreciate having to scroll through 10 paragraphs of historical research on all the things that happened at the prototype of this route, only to find out you don't even tell me if the industries are interactive or just for decoration. Doing that kind of research is great, but personally I feel like it should go into a forum post rather than the description.

I think its quite silly you all honestly are trying to still polish a turd.

The DLS is ancient at this stage, N3V fully knows it and any web dev who stares 5 secs at it knows it. You can say all you want, and list all the suggestions, and more area to write, and more screenshots and thumbnails. All I agree with. But that's still polishing a turd.

I'd never upload to the DLS. Its quite honestly a disgrace and blows my mind how anyone finds anything new. To only sit there and still download at painfully slow speeds even with a FCT and download 1k+ items for a Route you may or may not like and delete 5 mins later. Quite honestly its pure trash. Literal trash. Oh wow, 1 thumbnail, and then a terrible description that someone wrote? Along with a terrible site design. Tiny pics. God awful still way of obtaining.

Only way anything ever be changed is if the whole DLS system and structure is changed. Trainz can say its 2019 all it's like, but at its core, its still in 2004. The entire DLS needs to be re-written and updated. Any other amateur made Mod site can display better and showcase better than the DLS can. The in-game DLS for 19? Well, I'll still say from Day 1 when I got 19.. Who ever thought DLS in-game and made that UI and UX... No comment.

Most of you are so stuck with having what you have, you all don't mind still having a system that is now a decade old. Sad really when ya think about it. That's the thing with niche communities and markets, people roll over just because its the only product they got.

Kilrbe3 said:

I think its quite silly …. I'd never upload to the DLS.….people roll over just because its the only product they got.

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Ancient, non-optimized and should be managed much more rigorously by N3V. That's for sure BUT unlike many 3rd party sites, it still exists, it's searchable by kuid number and the game software interacts with it. As a result, I am not burdened by "missing asset" complaints and queries when it comes to any of my own creations. The peace of mind that brings me outweighs all those criticisms as far as I'm concerned.

The DLS is all we have, as when a 3rd party site goes belly up, and all it's assets go "404", or they pull the product … then no one can get it

Kilrbe3 said:

The DLS is ancient at this stage, N3V fully knows it and any web dev who stares 5 secs at it knows it. ... I'd never upload to the DLS. Its quite honestly a disgrace and blows my mind how anyone finds anything new. To only sit there and still download at painfully slow speeds even with a FCT and download 1k+ items for a Route you may or may not like and delete 5 mins later.

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From the opening line of your post it seems to me that you are referring to the Web based DLS, and I agree. But I never use the web based DLS anymore. All my downloads and uploads are via CM which I find much easier and far more practical.

The filters in CM make searching much easier and getting version updates is a breeze. But what would be useful is an upload date so you can sort out the newer stuff from the old.

As far as the download speed, that, in my experience, has more to do with your internet service provider than the DLS or an FCT. I am currently sitting in a hotel room relying entirely on their WiFi service which is painfully slow compared to the (not quite as slow) ADSL2+ service I get when at home. Fortunately my home connection will be upgraded within a few months to a much faster service.

As for downloading 1k+ assets for a route that you decide you don't like and delete 5 minutes later, that also happens to software downloads that I have made. In any case, there are many users here who regularly download routes they will never use (and delete immediately) for the assets included in the route.

As for the asset thumbnails (or lack of), descriptions (or lack of) and totally cryptic and useless asset names that are sometimes/often uploaded, many will agree (as it is the theme of this thread). But the DLS relies entirely on user contributions so we are at their mercy.

The DLS is actually one of Trainz' strongest assets. I've been dabbling around with all three of the big sims of late and I can tell you, it's a nightmare trying to gather resources or assets to build a route. For MSTS, outside of UKTS and Trainsim.com the stuff is scattered - many sites are gone or pop up claiming your Flash software etc. is out of date (i.e. trying to give you a virus). For the DTG-TS even worse, not that much freeware about and again you have to go on a scavenger hunt with the further caveat that some authors insist you can't include their asset with your route which means end users also going on the scavenger hunt. Certainly in TANE and TRS2019, using the built in CMP the DLS is still a clean, easy way of getting what you need. Of course there are issues, as being discussed with regard to multiple cloned items and lack of descriptions - but still better than its peers.

pware said:

The filters in CM make searching much easier and getting version updates is a breeze. But what would be useful is an upload date so you can sort out the newer stuff from the old.
.

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This can be done. just right click on the CM window Title bar which says "Description", "status" etc and select from the drop down window "Add column" and select from the named column/s to add to the bar. "Upload Date" is one of the columns available. Can also remove columns.

As for downloading off the dls, I use CM for this and only a handful of times have had slow downloads. I enjoy going to the dls webpage to see what is newly uploaded for the various trainz versions prior to any downloading. Yep, content that has no description is annoying as well as seeing the likes of this: ?????????????????? Decent Thumbnails would be a nice addition for some content uploaded too. Overall though, the dls is a pretty good depository for content and we are very fortunate to have it.

ARhian7 said:

This can be done. just right click on the CM window Title bar which says "Description", "status" etc and select from the drop down window "Add column" and select from the named column/s to add to the bar. "Upload Date" is one of the columns available.

Click to expand...

You learn something new in Trainz every day. When I get back to my Trainz computers in about 7 weeks I will give it a go!

Yes- you can filter a lot of ways in CM and also save your custom filters. What CM filters is lacking is a filter based on software version. (Unless I'm missing something.) Having TS19 only I don't care to see iPad saved routes in CM but I find no way to filter them. As for routes and sessions, I wish I could display TRS19 and Tane routes specifically, and not simply based on date uploaded.

1611mac said:

Yes- you can filter a lot of ways in CM and also save your custom filters. What CM filters is lacking is a filter based on software version. (Unless I'm missing something.) Having TS19 only I don't care to see iPad saved routes in CM but I find no way to filter them. As for routes and sessions, I wish I could display TRS19 and Tane routes specifically, and not simply based on date uploaded.

Click to expand...

Right click on CM headers, Insert Column, tick Build Version, then click the label to sort, you can get the highest build at top.

clam1952 said:

Right click on CM headers, Insert Column, tick Build Version, then click the label to sort, you can get the highest build at top.

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WOW! OK, I had actually looked at build version before (and even sorted by build) but the numbers meant nothing to me (ie: what does build 3.1 mean???) But you prompted me to search and find the build version list:http://online.ts2009.com/mediaWiki/index.php/"trainz-build"_number

That list is meaningful info! Thanks for the "push" to get me to find it!

Seems to me this thread went off topic, but since we are here...

http://online.ts2009.com/mediaWiki/index.php/%22trainz-build%22_number

See how version 3.8 and 4.4 are in red, like they have been orphaned. Some assets that worked with previous version can jump over the 'Red' version numbers, but will not work with the 'Red' versions. The table on the page provided by the link is very useful for helping us figure out that some assets will work with what, or can jump over version numbers. I have found that TS12 assets can be uploaded with all versions of TANE and TRS19 but will not work with TMR17 (which is in 'Red'). I only say this because every route I created in TR12 works in both TANE and TRS19, but have problems in TMR17 with just one or two assets that wont or cant be found or uploaded.

Christopher824 said:

I only say this because every route I created in TR12 works in both TANE and TRS19, but have problems in TMR17 with just one or two assets that wont or cant be found or uploaded.

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Note that there is a big difference between 'will not work with the 'Red' versions' and 'problems in TMR17'. Missing dependencies for a route does not stop it from working.

There are some cases where assets with a lower build number have errors that cannot be fixed, because they use features not available in that later edition. For instance, there is a small number of assets that use features available at build 4.4 that did not exist for build 4.5 (and similarly for build 3.8). AFAIK all these features become available in some later edition, so a build 4.4 asset should work in TRS19.

However there is an additional issue with dependencies, and this is likely what you see with routes that have problems in TMR17. There are inconsistencies with the built-in assets provided with different versions so any asset that depends on other assets (and of course routes are by far the most common occurrence) will likely have missing dependencies, or dependencies that are superseded by a later version which is not compatible with the original and cannot be replaced because it is built in, or dependencies that do not have their version list updated correctly so the system does not know what replacement asset to use, or a dependency which is a library and more than one version of the library exists and the out-of-date one cannot be deleted because it is built-in.

SailorDan said:

Missing dependencies for a route does not stop it from working.

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Not quite the case if the missing dependency happens to be something like a rail bridge or track asset.