Why do installs of TRS19 have different "built-in" assets? UMR2019 route

This issue recently came up with "missing kuid" issues for the very fine UMR2019 route. The author neilsmith749 replies that the following are built into his TRS19 install. I don't have any of them in either my Mac -or- Windows install of TRS19. Why?

I'm not asking for help with individual kuids. I'd much rather like to know why installs would have "missing" assets. Yes, I have done db repairs. If these are indeed built in assets how can I obtain them?

<kuid2:54760:27000:1> kraft mill 54760
<kuid2:64038:272416:2> Tank white
<kuid2:60238:32:1> Hiace
<kuid2:67261:26016:3> Ians gas station
<kuid2:64038:26008:1> 40ftvan BandB
<kuid2:64038:272301:1> Industrial Caterpillar
<kuid2:60238:27181:1> Rail Overhead Crane
<kuid2:60238:34:1> Mitsubishi Cantor
<kuid2:60238:27106:3> Selferecting Tower Crane
<kuid2:453099:100251:50> River Birch
<kuid2:64038:32003:2> tanker exon
<kuid2:64038:27783:1> Trailer container cr

These are built in but not in the basic install of TRS19. Most come from DLC routes and show as built in when downloaded. ECML seems to be the route that contains most of those assets.

stagecoach said:

These are built in but not in the basic install of TRS19. Most come from DLC routes and show as built in when downloaded. ECML seems to be the route that contains most of those assets.

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I have ALL six of the TRS19 routes installed including ECML. None of them show missing dependencies.

I should add that this appears to be a kuid version issue. For example, I do have kraft mill 54760 <kuid2:54760:27000> but not <kuid2:54760:27000:1>. The one I have shows in CM as "installed from DLS" and it's date is the date I installed UMR2019 (Apr 23, 2019).

The ECML route is ECML Kings Cross - Edinburgh it was a gold member vault offering in October 2018. As N3V did not mark them as payware the author like myself have used assets from those routes and not know about it. It has been mentioned about assets that are not available to some users because of this. Even if the author of a route did a check of its content this will not show up.

stagecoach said:

The ECML route is ECML Kings Cross - Edinburgh it was a gold member vault offering in October 2018. As N3V did not mark them as payware the author like myself have used assets from those routes and not know about it. It has been mentioned about assets that are not available to some users because of this. Even if the author of a route did a check of its content this will not show up.

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Thank you for that information. It is good insight to help me understand all the nuances of the whole Trainz experience and what is happening.

ECML was available to all those who have TANE and TRS19 and downloaded as builtin as were all the TANE builtin routes, normal install or Subscription. It's only DLC, if you don't have TANE.

It's getting confusing these days what to not use in routes for those on a basic install.

Yeah.. I don't understand all that... to me the CM "Built-in" Status is not truly "built-in." I keep good records of what I download and when (date/time). I have not paid enough attention to "Status." I now see that TANE routes I downloaded from my Silver program have assets marked as "built-in." I would have thought that for my TRS19 install "built-in" would have been ONLY those assets "built in" to the TRS19 app install (and not even the other five routes.)

So it is obvious to me now that terms are "universal" across versions and such. ie: if originally built into Tane it shows as "built in" even thought it's not "built in" to MY install.

The problem is... as I understand it.. if I create content then "built in" is pretty much meaningless to me if I am creating for TRS19 as the asset could be "built in" into Tane or any other version.... So I'm not sure what help any of these terms have in the end... I've a lot to learn...

In later builds of TRS19 it is built in.

In a post some time ago I did warn that this would happen.

Which is why in the routes, or rather the layouts, that I upload I use only assets that come with the very basic installation of TRS19 (which has, effectively, just Kickstarter) or from the Download Station.

mac --

One way to check is to have several installations of TRS19. Keep one "clean", that is just the original base installation.

Phil

1611mac said:

The problem is... as I understand it.. if I create content then "built in" is pretty much meaningless to me if I am creating for TRS19 as the asset could be "built in" into Tane or any other version.... So I'm not sure what help any of these terms have in the end.

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It's become a complete mess that is going to take a lot of time and effort to sort out.

"Built-in" should mean that it was delivered as part of the standard content with the particular release of Trainz, as specified by the build number. It would therefore be available to everyone who has installed that release. So if you built a route for T:ane SP3 Built 94829 that included only DLS and built-in items then you could be sure users of that release or better would not have missing dependencies.

Instead, a large number of items have been delivered as built-in items packaged with some payware. This seems to be a recent change, and only occurs with payware packages created for recent releases, particularly those released to TRS2019 subscribers. But it also included packages provided for free with the subscriber trial offer.

The result is that the route creator can no longer assume that items listed as built-in will be available to all users. The only way to confirm what you should or shouldn't use in a route is to do a new installation of TRS2019 and not add any DLC content. It would probably be OK to include the DLC content that is provided free to all users: it is possible to identify what that is, but it is not simple.

What is really frustrating is that many of the items listed as built-in are actually available on the DLS and could be easily downloaded. But the built-in asset has the version number incremented (for no reason) and therefore CM won't show the missing asset as available for download. Some careful searching on the DLS reveals these items, and the user can then download them and increment the version number to obtain the missing dependency, but this is a task that should not be needed.

Some, such as the US region (!) can be created from scratch. Other built-in items just aren't available.

Many items included as built-in in earlier versions of Trainz were not built-in in later versions, and this created a similar problem. A big effort was made for T:ane to get many of the TS12 built-in assets added to the DLS: this mostly solved the problem, but there are still TS12 routes that are OK in their original version but are missing dependencies in T:ane.

The other similar problem that is still not resolved is that many built-in and payware items should actually be freeware. Installing the payware package overwrites the installed freeware items, and they cannot be deleted. This unnecessarily restricts the assets that a diligent route creator can use. It also removes the ability that the user had to modify these assets for their own use.

N3V needs to stop work on developing new assets - the community has more than adequate capability for doing this. The N3V effort needs to be put into getting the DLS back into proper shape.

philskene said:

In a post some time ago I did warn that this would happen.

Which is why in the routes, or rather the layouts, that I upload I use only assets that come with the very basic installation of TRS19 (which has, effectively, just Kickstarter) or from the Download Station.

mac --

One way to check is to have several installations of TRS19. Keep one "clean", that is just the original base installation.

Phil

Click to expand...

Phil... that's good advice. I actually have already done that for session creation. I have created a whopping one session for Kickstarter 2. ("Local Duties - TRS19 KS2") I'd forget to re-assign AI trains with drivers that were built-in. I'd also use rules that were not "built in." - And now I realize that "built in" doesn't really mean "built in" at all...

stagecoach said:

In later builds of TRS19 it is built in.

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My Build 98592 (latest official release I believe?) has <kuid2:60238:27181> but not <kuid2:60238:27181:1> and the modified version is not available for download on CM.

1611mac, I believe that updating to the newly released build 100240 should address many of your built-in/payware problems. Another thing you might try is checking that you do not have "Out of Date" assets in the Content Manager.

The new 100240 did not help. Still have 34 "unknown asset"s - largely due to version numbers as much as I can tell. Nothing critical to running the route so not a big deal. Out of the large number of assets in the Route 34 unknown's is not bad... I'm enjoying the route! My post and questions come as I just like to understand how all this works......

I don't understand why there is not a simple utility that will report to route and session builders any asset not built into the "official" install (TSR19 and it's six routes). But now, with todays announcement of Regional versions of TRS19, that complicates things even more, does it not?

No complaints here... just observations.

That was my first thought on seeing the Regional announcement too. I have found the whole "built-in"/"payware" thing to be an incredible pain, especially as we see Trainz diverging.

Ah well, it is still a fun hobby and, as I remember from my model railroading era things were more expensive and more incompatible in the "real" world.

For the most part I'm still very happy to be messing with trainz.

normhart said:

-snip-
For the most part I'm still very happy to be messing with trainz.

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I'm trilled to have found Trainz and this community. When I purchased TRS19 I thought I was just buying another sim. But it turns out that I've found a whole new "world" here. The only problem I have is not knowing what to do next.... route build, session build, run a route, look for accurate 3rd party assets, jump in an AI train and watch the world go by, try to find "easter eggs" in routes (Dave Snows newspaper headline for example), learn more about real world trains to be more prototypical, etc, etc, etc, etc...

Are there some problems/issues? Yes. But that has to be expected in a "wide open" environment such as this...

Trainz is never boring, you just don't know what is going to turn up next!

After the patch had new downloads of Sebino Lake and sim:sc498 whatever that is.

The issue with the asset versioning has caused a lot of frustrations. What I think happens too is assets that are imported locally for some reason are not version-checked for updates while those that are downloaded from the DLS go through the process.

With this error, the end result is if an asset has been updated from a KUID:XXXXXXX:YYYYYY to KUID2:XXXXXX:YYYYYY:z, we end up with this disparity when an asset is imported from a CDP.

This issue shows its self really badly when asset dependencies are exported for routes and sessions. I ran into this more than a few times when sending routes off to the QA team for testing. The newer version asset is installed, however, the route and session still refer to the KUID version and not the KUID2: verions that's installed in the route obj file.

When the route and session are now installed, the assets can't be found even though the new version is installed already.

This has been a problem since T:ANE and it's been reported, but somehow ignored as an issue.