T:ANE and TRS19

Is T:ANE and TRS19 incompatibility killing off 3rd party assets, and culling creators ?
See: https://forums.auran.com/trainz/sho...reeware-F7A-s-And-F7B-s&p=1744269#post1744269

jointedrail said:

They were removed due to compatibility issues with later TANE versions as well as going forward into 2019. These are many years old and were not going to be upgraded. We hope to have some F units done in the future but we don't have a solid release date.

Sorry posting has been slow, its been a busy time just with life in general for alot of us here at JR.

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It would seem that because N3V has moved the ball on Trainz, allot of 3rd party assets will no longer work, "due to compatability issues with later TANE versions as well as going forward into 2019"

But as moving forward in Trainz, the old assets must be culled off as it is no longer "Compatible" with later T:ANE and TRS19

Many sites have closed their doors ... the first major loss was USLW as it went "404" a good while back ... My prediction is that Jointed Rail, RRMod's, and K&L will be next on the chopping block: "due to compatibility issues with later TANE versions as well as going forward into 2019", as their "old" assets will soon no longer work due to being "Incompatible" with later T:ANE and TRS19

Yadda bug, yadda feature. The alternative is to build for lowest common denominator rather than chasing the moving target, which has both advantages and disadvantages. Some new features could be worth chasing, but it's a balancing act; best to treat it as a hobby, I say.

I'm not familiar with the assets concerned but perhaps JR are facing the reality that these assets don't meet current expectations. TANE introduced a whole lot of validation in an attempt to make assets better suited to game performance expectations. TRS19 introduced PBR materials that are rapidly becoming the norm for modern gaming.

I think this is a time for many creators to rethink how they make their models and decide whether it is worth the time and effort to learn new skills. There's no doubt in my mind that model making for TRS19 has become much more expensive not only in dollar terms but in the level of expertise required.

We're not playing with TS04 anymore.

Progress always means that some are going to be left behind if they cannot keep up or upgrade their equipment. Is anyone still making TV series that can be shown on the old 4:3 analogue B/W TV sets? Can you buy the latest Hollywood releases on VHS tape? I know that vinyl records are making a comeback, of sorts, but I have no plans to buy any of them or the mechanical turntable you need to play them. You can still buy 35mm film (but not Kodachrome) from some suppliers but I find digital cameras so much easier to use.

This was inevitable and I am amazed that N3V have managed to keep some of those old TS04 and 06 assets "up to date" in terms of compatibility but they do look very tired and dated, and have no LOD to boot.

It is unfortunate and I, for one, will probably never have the time or resources to create scenery assets to the standard of TRS19 and later. One of my retirement goals was to learn how to use Blender and start creating buildings, tracks, etc. I have a copy of Blender on my system and I keep it up to date with each new release but I have yet to make a start and probably never will. Instead I have concentrated on developing skills in other Trainz areas such as adding to the Trainz Wiki, learning how to use EITs and creating routes and sessions with the assets others have created.

Yes ... No doubt ... but instead of rashly removing and eradicating the all the old incompatible assets completely ... they could have been left there, and still remained on the website, creating no harm

Fully agree! Worked out well for Kodak, Blockbuster, Nokia, IBM etc, I will pass onto the team - long live TRS2004!

cascaderailroad said:

Yes ... No doubt ... but instead of rashly removing and eradicating the all the old incompatible assets completely ... they could have been left there, and still remained on the website, creating no harm

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Creating no harm? Sure. Tell that to all those who expect us to support these asset. We received MANY complaints about the F7s not working via our support system. AS a team we decided the best course of action was to remove the assets.

We have had for years that we only support TS12 HF4 up. TS12....that is now at least 7 years old. Im not even sure Windows supports back that far. Theres going to be a time where we discontinue support for TS12 as well, are you going to get the pitchforks and torches out for us then too?

There comes a point where you cannot hold onto content that is from years and years ago and expect it to work and be upgraded to work thru 6 different versions of software. That time has come for the F units.

jointedrail said:

Creating no harm? Sure. Tell that to all those who expect us to support these asset. We received MANY complaints about the F7s not working via our support system. AS a team we decided the best course of action was to remove the assets.

We have had for years that we only support TS12 HF4 up. TS12....that is now at least 7 years old. Im not even sure Windows supports back that far. Theres going to be a time where we discontinue support for TS12 as well, are you going to get the pitchforks and torches out for us then too?

There comes a point where you cannot hold onto content that is from years and years ago and expect it to work and be upgraded to work thru 6 different versions of software. That time has come for the F units.

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As to: "receiving MANY complaints about the F7s not working via your support system", you could have simply messaged the people back, and informed them, that the F-Units no longer work in later versions of T:ANE and TRS19 due to incompatibility ... or you could have ignored their complaints

Unsupported is one thing ... that means that you are not going to fix old things, and people are on their own to fix them ... But to totally remove and eradicate the assets, that drastically does solve the entire problem so easily, cull the old assets completely ... Then no one can get them ... As to: "There comes a point where you cannot hold onto content that is from years and years ago ...", I guess that removing the download links severely helped by cutting the bandwidth cost of hosting these assets on the website" ?

Maybe one of us could have fixed the assets to work in later T:ANE and TRS19 ... But not now ... As they have been eradicated from existence

“We'll be remembered more for what we destroy, than what we create.”

One wonders if people knew that they were available years ago, as it seems they did, they did not download them when they were still available and back them up! You can never ever rely on anything downloaded from the internet to be there forever.

Although most old stuff that is faulty can be fixed or bodged to work in TANE and TRS19, as said much of the older stuff while fine in it's day is looking very dated and in some cases pretty dreadful and if there are encrypted scripts involved they are often out of date and not compatible with current versions of Trainz.

In the case of a Payware organisation, having albeit free copies of old stuff that does not work in newer versions of Trainz and are not to their current standards is not going to do much for ones payware reputation, if free stuff doesn't work!

I would suggest that biting the hand that feeds you never works ;o) Moan too much and you may find that free stuff is no longer forthcoming.

cascaderailroad said:

As to: "receiving MANY complaints about the F7s not working via your support system", you could have simply messaged the people back, and informed them, that the F-Units no longer work in later versions of T:ANE and TRS19 due to incompatibility ... or you could have ignored their complaints

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Perhaps that level of support would be fine for your own company, but that isn't how it works at JR.

cascaderailroad said:

Unsupported is one thing ... that means that you are not going to fix old things, and people are on their own to fix them ... But to totally remove and eradicate the assets, that drastically does solve the entire problem so easily, cull the old assets completely ... Then no one can get them ... As to: "There comes a point where you cannot hold onto content that is from years and years ago ...", I guess that removing the download links severely helped by cutting the bandwidth cost of hosting these assets on the website" ?

Maybe one of us could have fixed the assets to work in later T:ANE and TRS19 ... But not now ... As they have been eradicated from existence

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None of this is relevant. We made a decision to remove the freeware F7 models and that is that. Supporting 10 year old freeware is a waste of time and resources regardless if you agree with it or not. If you haven't had the chance to download them in 10 years then you have just missed out. Anyone who has them is welcome to address any shortcomings they have or 'fix' them but they will not return to JR. It's time to stop using old junk.