TrainzDEM question

In addition to Trainz, my interests include geology and geography. I would like to create (reasonably efficiently) realistic but non-prototypical terrain as a basis for routes. I have used the grayscale bitmaps for this, but there are limitations since the maximum altitude possible is around 300m, and getting multiple grayscales to work together is a hassle.

I know that TrainzDEM can be thought of as middleware between reality and a route, but is there a way to use Trainzdem as middleware between my imagination and a route (just bare terrain). If so, I will buy Trainzdem. Thanks.
 
Why complicate construction, with TrainzDEM pick an area and bingo you have it. Any where in the world as far as I am aware.
 
Not quite as simple as "BINGO" ... There is a lot of things you need ... maps ... and a whole lot of technical work involved to get a DEM with a map and rail lines on it
 
NO ... Transdem does not generate the UTM Map Tile images, nor draw the rail lines, roads and rivers, you need to download satellite data, and apply them into Transdem ... It is not as simple as asking: "Transdem" ... "Make Me a DEM Map"
 
Nothing to stop you using a dem of anywhere using Transdem to produce the terrain and then create your own fictional world on it. You don't have to use the maps or railway routes if you are inventing your own.

I've done one fictional route that way.

By the way it is Transdem no z in it. ;o)
 
I do that all the time now. It's quite fun and challenging to fit in a rail line that might have, or could have existed. Keeping the line convincing and consistent is a big part of the challenge. it's also a bit more interesting building the route around an existing terrain. Things come into play here that are not there when winging it with topology tools. If there are hills, do we tunnel through them, or do we go around them. Ridges and valleys need to be conquered. It's a lot more work, but the results are rewarding.

My in progress Cape Anne Regional Transit, for example, is based around a DEM I generated of the Cape Anne area in Massachusetts. George Fischer's Gloucester Terminal is based on the same area as well, and so is my Gloucester Terminal Electric, which is actually his route plus some expansions. I expanded this one by adding in the Eastern Point branch with trolley stops in Wonson Cove, Southeast Harbor, and finally Eastern Point. Tacking on the DEM to this was a lot more difficult due the differences between old HOG routes and TransDem generated routes. It probably didn't help either if the HOG maps was chopped down too in some areas, making aligning impossible. In the end, I winged it and blended in the coastline. When viewed, no one know there's that difference until I point it out. This line, like the rest of the system runs under catenary for the passenger trains with freights being dieselized. I use the premise here that the old freight motors were in need of repair and the company felt it wasn't worth repairing them. The whole system was set to be dieselized, but the local transit company took over the passenger service.

Using the DEM and topographic maps, I put in the existing railroad, the former Boston and Maine, Gloucester and Rockport Branch on my CART route, then proceeded to add in the other branches to non-existent terminals. I will say that there was once a number of old quarry railroads in the area, and the premise of my Annisquam to Pigeon Cove line is for that reason. The old ROWs are still there today in real life, but the tracks of these mostly narrow gauge lines is long gone for at least a century. This line actually runs beside Route 127 and has stops in Riverdale, Riverside, and Riverside Station. It was Riverside Station that got me curious about this area in the first place. Today the old quarries have become reservoirs and lakes with parks around them. In my world, I've connected up a line to the much bigger ones including Baystate Granite, and another up in Pigeon Cove. The Rockport terminal is met by a branch that comes up from East Gloucester. In real life there was once a narrow gauge line built to, again, to haul granite and stones. The old ROW is obvious and appears as a straight line out to the beach. When the houses were built in the early 20th century or before, they allowed for the ROW so there's that distinct space between them and their back yards. In my world, this line is connected to the East Gloucester mainline, and it too becomes a busy branch to Long Beach.

Eastern Point too is featured prominently in both of my versions. Here I put in a branch to a port that doesn't exist. What was once a Coast Guard Station back in the day and marked still on topo maps, is a sea port with some tracks out on the piers. On my Gloucester Route, the trolley cars run on the mainline and the port-side branch peels off and down around the town to the shoreline.

Taking this one step further, I added in branches to a couple of other areas and a busy branch to Wingersheek. This particular line is double-tracked just like the other parts of the mainline and plays an important part in funneling in traffic to the Gloucester terminal which interchanges both freight and passengers with the B&M at Gloucester. In real life, where I have turn loops on my old Gloucester Terminal route, there was once a substantial freight yard and a short branch into downtown Gloucester to Market Street. Today that branch is long gone and the yard has been replaced by a Shaw's Supermarket or Stop N' Shop.

This as you can see get's quite complex. The other part of the challenge is putting in the lines so that they are convincing. One of the biggest challenges I find is putting in the tracks, outside of the choice between tunnels and bridges, without breaking roads as much as possible through areas that never had a railroad. The Eastern Point branch, for example follows the real life Route 127a out there. In real life this area is a bit snooty with the big mansions, so I wanted to feature those as well as the trolleys pass through Southeast Harbor, passed some horse farms, and on to Eastern Point where I turned a rather rural area with big mansions into a small town. The line too, being a trolley or interurban line, isn't quite as flat as a heavy rail line would be so the grades are a bit steeper. Being a former interurban too, means the freights are shorter, besides it's only a boxcar or two out on the branch anyway where the car is exchanged at the fishing piers.

The thing is use your imagination and have fun. If it doesn't work, the only thing lost is some pixels, bits, and time unlike a real model railroad where the plaster, track, mess, and cost of materials and kits comes into play. This is by far the best feature of Trainz. We can not only take an existing route, outside of the built-in stuff, and modify it to our heart's content, we can do this without wasting anything other than our time.
 
I heartily agree John. I have a WIP based on an old disused/derelict line in Suffolk UK but I often leave that and build something totally ficticious like my current Island route in which i simply used the built-in ground templates (Mountains 1-3 Valleys1-3 Etc).
the fun is as you say letting your imagination run wild, and then getting T-ANE to cooperate.
Keith
 
Why complicate construction, with TrainzDEM pick an area and bingo you have it. Any where in the world as far as I am aware.
It is all generated by the program.
NO ... it is not ! You have to download a huge chunk of the earth satellite data ... Delete thousands, if not millions, of extra baseboards ... Download hundreds or thousands of satellite maps, get their coordinates all entered in, one by one ... draw the river, roads, rail lines on each map on the DEM ... simple as that ... You have a completed DEM within a couple of weeks of HARD WORK !

You just can't say to Transdem: "Hi Transdem" ... "Make me a DEM of the Horseshoe Curve, or SE England" ... it is NOT that simple of a chore !
 
Last edited:
I have used DEM created blank routes and enjoy thinking about where a railway could or would be built similar to what JCitron describes. Thanks all for your responses.
 
Using Transdem to make totally bare 3d landscapes is not very hard,(if you can figure out how to download the proper dem files and format) but once you get into using detailed maps to create 3d tiles (like the picture below) and stuff..
It gets insane... (you better have 64-bit PC, 64gigs of ram, and still multiple SSD's for DiskRAM, if you want huge routes with detailed 3d tile maps that will help you place all the objects for a total real world replica.) (And I only do this for personal fun..)

vtfG7Sl.jpg


FfYgXuy.jpg
 
Last edited:
I've seen threads on this forum that contained a lot of unsubstantiated garbage, but this one takes the cake.

NO ... Transdem does not generate the UTM Map Tile images, nor draw the rail lines, roads and rivers, you need to download satellite data, and apply them into Transdem ... It is not as simple as asking: "Transdem" ... "Make Me a DEM Map"

TransDEM does indeed create UTM tile objects, and adds them to the map. There's an icon in the user interface (Third from the right) that automatically creates all of the UTM tiles for that particular map. If you're creating a route just using multiple baseboards instead of TransDEM, you still have to add the rail lines, roads, and rivers etc.

You have to download a huge chunk of the earth satellite data ... Delete thousands, if not millions, of extra baseboards ... Download hundreds or thousands of satellite maps, get their coordinates all entered in, one by one ... draw the river, roads, rail lines on each map on the DEM ... simple as that ... You have a completed DEM within a couple of weeks of HARD WORK.

"Download a huge chunk of the earth satellite data"? You can download any US Dem Here Click on "Elevation Products (3Dep)" I'm currently working on a route that's 150 miles long. It took 4 DEMs that I downloaded in a half hour.

"Delete thousands, if not millions of extra baseboards". That is absolutely ridiculous! if you have too many baseboards, that's your own fault. TransDEM gives you complete control of the number of baseboards that you want to install by setting the radius in the TransDEM route filter. I prefer a radius of 3 baseboards on each side of the track.

"Download hundreds or thousands of satellite maps."? Map Tile Services will do this for you automatically, unless you're creating a route that has been abandoned, and is no longer shown on current USGS maps. You can then download historic maps, and enter the coordinates. The average route will take about 15 to 20 USGS maps.

"You have a completed DEM within a couple of weeks of HARD WORK" ? My 150 mile route was created in TransDEM, and imported to TANE in one day.

Posts like these serve no useful purpose, and tend to discourage potential purchasers.

Joe




 
Last time I used Transdem I had to enter all the latitude longitude upper left hand corner coordinates on each and every UTM tile into Transdem, signally, one by one ... Maybe it has been improved upon since then ... IDK ... I took the program off my PC as it was taking up most of my hard drive
 
2018-11-22 121150.jpg

This route is 100% TransDem generated and belongs to SteamBoat Eng.

I merged his route into the connecting HT&W (Hoosac Tunnel & Wilmington, aka Hoot Toot & Whistle, or Hold Tight & Worry!), which is also a TransDEM generated route.

The HT&W was completely abandoned in 1972/73 after being mostly obliterated by a hydro power dam. The railroad was seeing declining business and the dam proved too much to recover from.

In the Trainz version, I've been working at this route, albeit, slowly as I rebuild the now long gone railroad. Where the hydro dam went in, there is no longer a ROW and I had to wing it as they say to get the line up the river and past the dam. This made for some steeper grades than I want, but it works.

That said, I took Mike's TransDEM-generated route and merged it into my TransDEM-generated route. I had to do some trimming on both, but only a handful of baseboards in order to match up the Deerfield River valley and ROW where both maps connected.

Without TransDEM and the ability to merge routes together, there is no way this project would ever get off the ground.

I agree with Joe. There are settings to limit the number of baseboards if you so wish to use them as well as to place the track, and determine the resolution of the route textures, and a whole lot of other settings and stuff that can be done if wanted.

How deep one goes into the program capabilities and features is all about how much one want's to delve into the details.
 
Last time I used Transdem I had to enter all the latitude longitude upper left hand corner coordinates on each and every UTM tile into Transdem, signally, one by one ... Maybe it has been improved upon since then ... IDK ... I took the program off my PC as it was taking up most of my hard drive

You can't enter coordinates for UTM tiles. You download USGS maps and georeference them by adding coordinates. "Map Tile Servers" has been included in TransDEM for years. You obviously never learned to use the software, and so you unfairly criticize it. As I said before, this serves no useful purpose but tends to discourage potential buyers.
 
I asked many experienced people, and they guided me to a satellite server that receintly changed the way you used to be able download small areas ... but you now had to download an absolutely huge area, that went from Binghamton NY, out into the Atlantic Ocean off the coast of Virgina, that were unreasonably huge

So tell me again by going to your site, that making a DEM is all automatic, and the program takes all that data and produces a DEM with roads rail lines and rivers, in one easy peasy shot ? And BINGO you have a completed map detailed DEM inside of minutes

You download USGS maps and georeference them by adding coordinates. "Map Tile Servers" has been included in TransDEM for years.

How long does it take to georeference, say, 1000 maps into Transdem ? Or is that tedious work now all automatically generated without having to hand type in 2 thousand latitude longitude numeral coordinates ?
 
Last edited:
I asked many experienced people, and they guided me to a satellite server that receintly changed the way you used to download small areas ... but you now had to download a huge area, that went from Binghamton NY, out into the Atlantic Ocean off the coast of Virgina, that were unreasonably huge

So tell me again by going to your site, that making a DEM is all automatic, and the program takes all that data and produces a DEM with roads rail lines and rivers, in one easy peasy shot ? And BINGO you have a completed map detailed DEM inside of minutes

First of all, a DEM is not a terrain generated map. A DEM is a 3 dimensional terrain area based on one latitude by one longitude. Basically all DEMs are the same size. If you had a DEM that extended out over the ocean, you could trim it in TransDEM by creating a rectangular mask over a portion of the DEM. You now would have a menu choice of deleting the area inside the mask, or outside the mask. By reducing the size of a DEM, you can save a lot of memory that could prevent you from adding a third or fourth DEM.

If you are referring to a large USGS map that extended out over the ocean, it doesn't matter. If you open the map in TransDEM, you must overlay the railroad lines by drawing polylines with the mouse. Once you complete these polylines, TransDEM saves them as a route, and will then create terrain based only on the polylines, and the number of baseboards you select in the route filter. Any terrain beyond the selected baseboard radii will be excluded when the route is exported into Trainz

Secondly, I never said or implied that making a terrain generated map (or a DEM as you refer to it) is automatic. Like anything else, you have to put a certain amount of effort into it before it begins to materialize. TransDEM will export rail lines into Trainz, but you still have to adjust the track, apply grades, install roads, and rivers, but this has nothing to do with TransDEM. It's called route building.
 
Back
Top