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Thread: TrainzDEM question

  1. #16
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    Here is a thread I used to explain how I applied high quality ortho images to overlay a TransDem basic map. This produced an excellent detailed visual display of the real world.

    https://forums.auran.com/trainz/show...-possibilities
    Windows 8.1 T:ANE T19
    I used to have Windows 10 but it bombed on an update and when I recovered it to went back to Windows 8 (long after version 10 was no longer free!!!) to Microsoft.

  2. #17
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    2018-11-22 121150.jpg

    This route is 100% TransDem generated and belongs to SteamBoat Eng.

    I merged his route into the connecting HT&W (Hoosac Tunnel & Wilmington, aka Hoot Toot & Whistle, or Hold Tight & Worry!), which is also a TransDEM generated route.

    The HT&W was completely abandoned in 1972/73 after being mostly obliterated by a hydro power dam. The railroad was seeing declining business and the dam proved too much to recover from.

    In the Trainz version, I've been working at this route, albeit, slowly as I rebuild the now long gone railroad. Where the hydro dam went in, there is no longer a ROW and I had to wing it as they say to get the line up the river and past the dam. This made for some steeper grades than I want, but it works.

    That said, I took Mike's TransDEM-generated route and merged it into my TransDEM-generated route. I had to do some trimming on both, but only a handful of baseboards in order to match up the Deerfield River valley and ROW where both maps connected.

    Without TransDEM and the ability to merge routes together, there is no way this project would ever get off the ground.

    I agree with Joe. There are settings to limit the number of baseboards if you so wish to use them as well as to place the track, and determine the resolution of the route textures, and a whole lot of other settings and stuff that can be done if wanted.

    How deep one goes into the program capabilities and features is all about how much one want's to delve into the details.
    John
    Trainz User Since: 12-2003
    Trainz User ID: 124863
    T:ANE Build: 94829
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  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascaderailroad View Post
    Last time I used Transdem I had to enter all the latitude longitude upper left hand corner coordinates on each and every UTM tile into Transdem, signally, one by one ... Maybe it has been improved upon since then ... IDK ... I took the program off my PC as it was taking up most of my hard drive
    You can't enter coordinates for UTM tiles. You download USGS maps and georeference them by adding coordinates. "Map Tile Servers" has been included in TransDEM for years. You obviously never learned to use the software, and so you unfairly criticize it. As I said before, this serves no useful purpose but tends to discourage potential buyers.


  4. #19
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    I asked many experienced people, and they guided me to a satellite server that receintly changed the way you used to be able download small areas ... but you now had to download an absolutely huge area, that went from Binghamton NY, out into the Atlantic Ocean off the coast of Virgina, that were unreasonably huge

    So tell me again by going to your site, that making a DEM is all automatic, and the program takes all that data and produces a DEM with roads rail lines and rivers, in one easy peasy shot ? And BINGO you have a completed map detailed DEM inside of minutes

    You download USGS maps and georeference them by adding coordinates. "Map Tile Servers" has been included in TransDEM for years.

    How long does it take to georeference, say, 1000 maps into Transdem ? Or is that tedious work now all automatically generated without having to hand type in 2 thousand latitude longitude numeral coordinates ?
    Last edited by cascaderailroad; April 11th, 2019 at 04:04 PM.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascaderailroad View Post
    I asked many experienced people, and they guided me to a satellite server that receintly changed the way you used to download small areas ... but you now had to download a huge area, that went from Binghamton NY, out into the Atlantic Ocean off the coast of Virgina, that were unreasonably huge

    So tell me again by going to your site, that making a DEM is all automatic, and the program takes all that data and produces a DEM with roads rail lines and rivers, in one easy peasy shot ? And BINGO you have a completed map detailed DEM inside of minutes
    First of all, a DEM is not a terrain generated map. A DEM is a 3 dimensional terrain area based on one latitude by one longitude. Basically all DEMs are the same size. If you had a DEM that extended out over the ocean, you could trim it in TransDEM by creating a rectangular mask over a portion of the DEM. You now would have a menu choice of deleting the area inside the mask, or outside the mask. By reducing the size of a DEM, you can save a lot of memory that could prevent you from adding a third or fourth DEM.

    If you are referring to a large USGS map that extended out over the ocean, it doesn't matter. If you open the map in TransDEM, you must overlay the railroad lines by drawing polylines with the mouse. Once you complete these polylines, TransDEM saves them as a route, and will then create terrain based only on the polylines, and the number of baseboards you select in the route filter. Any terrain beyond the selected baseboard radii will be excluded when the route is exported into Trainz

    Secondly, I never said or implied that making a terrain generated map (or a DEM as you refer to it) is automatic. Like anything else, you have to put a certain amount of effort into it before it begins to materialize. TransDEM will export rail lines into Trainz, but you still have to adjust the track, apply grades, install roads, and rivers, but this has nothing to do with TransDEM. It's called route building.


  6. #21
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    There should be an established "Transdem for Dummies" thread for those that can not wrap their minds around a thousand pages of reading the overly complicated Transdem manual ... so that even the technically challenged can grasp and understand, without taking a 4 year college course in Transdem mapmaking cartography course

    Last edited by cascaderailroad; April 11th, 2019 at 05:16 PM.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascaderailroad View Post
    There should be an established "Transdem for Dummies" thread for those that can not wrap their minds around a thousand pages of reading the overly complicated Transdem manual ...
    The manual is not overly complicated! There are plenty of good tutorials included, one of which shows how to create terrain for Trainz. TransDEM is used for other purposes than just Trainz. Granted, a little bit of intelligence is needed to work with TransDEM, but if you can learn Trainz Surveyor, there is no reason why you can't successfully learn and use TransDEM. With some patience, time and the willingness to learn, you can use TransDEM to create wonderful things!

    Andrew

    PS - The 2 manuals included with TransDEM only comprise a total of 286 pages, not a thousand!
    Last edited by SharkNose; April 11th, 2019 at 07:47 PM. Reason: page count

  8. #23
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    Default TransDEM works!

    I agree with Sharknose. Anyone who has downloaded the amazing White Pass & Yukon Route Railway created by Jango should know that I created the DEM map for that with TransDEM in about 4-5 hours. I just used the TransDEM manual and tutorials to do that. I even had to use two different sources of DEMs because the railway crosses from the United States into Canada. That included overlapping the US DEMs with the Canadian DEMs at White Pass. It worked.

    Want to do prototypical real world railway routes or make a fictitious railway in the Grand Canyon ? Buy TransDEM.

    Case closed.
    Windows 8.1 T:ANE T19
    I used to have Windows 10 but it bombed on an update and when I recovered it to went back to Windows 8 (long after version 10 was no longer free!!!) to Microsoft.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by SharkNose View Post
    Granted, a little bit of intelligence is needed to work with TransDEM, but if you can learn Trainz Surveyor, there is no reason why you can't successfully learn and use TransDEM. With some patience, time and the willingness to learn, you can use TransDEM to create wonderful things!

    Andrew

    PS - The 2 manuals included with TransDEM only comprise a total of 286 pages, not a thousand!
    Why does it take 286 pages and some intelligence, if:
    Quote Originally Posted by JackDownUnder View Post
    Why complicate construction, with TrainzDEM pick an area and bingo you have it. Any where in the world as far as I am aware.
    Quote Originally Posted by JackDownUnder View Post
    It is all generated by the program.
    Can't it be as simple as: BINGO ? Pick an area, and bingo you have it, why does it have to be so complex ?

    Why can't it be a simple 5 page, 5 step by step process ... instead of being a complex 286 pages long difficult process, requiring a 4 year college course in cartography map making ?
    Last edited by cascaderailroad; April 11th, 2019 at 11:32 PM.

  10. #25
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    Can't it be as simple as: BINGO ? Pick an area, and bingo you have it, why does it have to be so complex ?

    Why can't it be a simple 5 page, 5 step by step process ... instead of being a complex 286 pages long difficult process, requiring a 4 year college course in cartography map making ?
    It is. A good part of the manual is tutorials to learn about all aspects of the program. The rest explains all the options available. There is no need to use all the options and in the end you only use what you really need, and for me it's about 5-pages worth if that. This is the same for other people as well as the use the options they need for their own route creation.
    John
    Trainz User Since: 12-2003
    Trainz User ID: 124863
    T:ANE Build: 94829
    TRS2019/Trainz-PLUS: 105100

  11. #26
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    I will be buying Transdem this month and put an end to this controversy ... I am hoping for a DEM from Trenton NJ, to Harve de Grace MD, to Harrisburg PA, and Reading PA ... perhaps that would require 2 separate DEM routes, kept unmerged ?

  12. #27
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    If you've never used TransDEM before, I'd suggest a much smaller route than what you described. A quick glance tells me a single route connecting those 4 cities in that order would be > 200 miles long. That's close to 450 baseboards in Trainz. DEMs are usually downloaded by county (at least the higher resolution ones are) and that 200+ mile route covers 10 separate counties in 4 states.

    If I were to attempt something that large (which I wouldn't), I'd break it up into 10 chunks. And then try to merge them together in Trainz. DEM data eats up hard drive space pretty quickly. And that's even before you get it into TransDEM to narrow it down.

    Try a 10 mile route first to get your feet wet. I did the "Muengsten" tutorial in the manual first and then repeated the process on a more familiar area in the US.

    Andrew

  13. #28
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    DEMs are usually downloaded by county (at least the higher resolution ones are) and that 200+ mile route covers 10 separate counties in 4 states.
    DEMS are now 1 arcsecond slices. A good example is mid-eastern New England which covers from just a bit south of Manchester, NH to the coast around Portsmouth south to Rhode Island/MA state line and the western part of Cape Cod and includes the Boston Area. This is a huge area, and impossible to work with.

    The files are also huge downloads ranging between 350 to 400 MB compressed. The .img file or other format (I can't remember!) is about twice that if not a bit more than twice that size. There is no way to merge these completely even with 64GB of RAM. The DEMS need to be trimmed down then merged together if a longer route is being created before adding that to the maps.

    When building Down East Maine, it took 3 DEMs because I needed slices of each one to cover from Brunswick to Rockland. This was a real pain...

    I download my maps first, place the DEM, and trim out the area in TransDEM to get as much unwanted outside the area removed first before I concentrate on the route area. There is no way around this because of the huge size of the data set to start with. In the earlier days, we could download tiny slices of a larger DEM and that was very helpful, but that's no longer the case since the changes that started in 2007 or 2008. A super huge route, even imported into T:ANE and TRS19, will crash the program. It's just too much data to process. Even if we bring in a base route that big, after we start adding in assets, textures, and stuff, it gets bigger still and a lot slower.
    John
    Trainz User Since: 12-2003
    Trainz User ID: 124863
    T:ANE Build: 94829
    TRS2019/Trainz-PLUS: 105100

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derekc75 View Post
    I agree with Sharknose. Anyone who has downloaded the amazing White Pass & Yukon Route Railway created by Jango should know that I created the DEM map for that with TransDEM in about 4-5 hours. I just used the TransDEM manual and tutorials to do that. I even had to use two different sources of DEMs because the railway crosses from the United States into Canada. That included overlapping the US DEMs with the Canadian DEMs at White Pass. It worked.
    I haven't downloaded this, but would like to now! Any ideas how as I can't spot it on the DS?

    Thanks,
    Paul

  15. #30
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    Not sure if this is the one or not, but I found a White Pass & Yukon on:

    http://www.trainzitalia.com/forum/in...ukon-railroad/

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