.
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 36

Thread: TrainzDEM question

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    United States of America, Idaho, Sandpoint
    Posts
    445

    Default TrainzDEM question

    In addition to Trainz, my interests include geology and geography. I would like to create (reasonably efficiently) realistic but non-prototypical terrain as a basis for routes. I have used the grayscale bitmaps for this, but there are limitations since the maximum altitude possible is around 300m, and getting multiple grayscales to work together is a hassle.

    I know that TrainzDEM can be thought of as middleware between reality and a route, but is there a way to use Trainzdem as middleware between my imagination and a route (just bare terrain). If so, I will buy Trainzdem. Thanks.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Australia, NSW, Karuah
    Posts
    809

    Default

    Why complicate construction, with TrainzDEM pick an area and bingo you have it. Any where in the world as far as I am aware.
    JackDownUnder

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Antarctica, Vostok Base, South Pole, AQ
    Posts
    18,805

    Default

    Not quite as simple as "BINGO" ... There is a lot of things you need ... maps ... and a whole lot of technical work involved to get a DEM with a map and rail lines on it

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Australia, NSW, Karuah
    Posts
    809

    Default

    It is all generated by the program.
    JackDownUnder

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Antarctica, Vostok Base, South Pole, AQ
    Posts
    18,805

    Default

    NO ... Transdem does not generate the UTM Map Tile images, nor draw the rail lines, roads and rivers, you need to download satellite data, and apply them into Transdem ... It is not as simple as asking: "Transdem" ... "Make Me a DEM Map"

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Crewe, Cheshire, UK
    Posts
    14,579

    Default

    Nothing to stop you using a dem of anywhere using Transdem to produce the terrain and then create your own fictional world on it. You don't have to use the maps or railway routes if you are inventing your own.

    I've done one fictional route that way.

    By the way it is Transdem no z in it. ;o)
    Malc


  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    United States of America, Massachusetts, Haverhill
    Posts
    24,823

    Default

    I do that all the time now. It's quite fun and challenging to fit in a rail line that might have, or could have existed. Keeping the line convincing and consistent is a big part of the challenge. it's also a bit more interesting building the route around an existing terrain. Things come into play here that are not there when winging it with topology tools. If there are hills, do we tunnel through them, or do we go around them. Ridges and valleys need to be conquered. It's a lot more work, but the results are rewarding.

    My in progress Cape Anne Regional Transit, for example, is based around a DEM I generated of the Cape Anne area in Massachusetts. George Fischer's Gloucester Terminal is based on the same area as well, and so is my Gloucester Terminal Electric, which is actually his route plus some expansions. I expanded this one by adding in the Eastern Point branch with trolley stops in Wonson Cove, Southeast Harbor, and finally Eastern Point. Tacking on the DEM to this was a lot more difficult due the differences between old HOG routes and TransDem generated routes. It probably didn't help either if the HOG maps was chopped down too in some areas, making aligning impossible. In the end, I winged it and blended in the coastline. When viewed, no one know there's that difference until I point it out. This line, like the rest of the system runs under catenary for the passenger trains with freights being dieselized. I use the premise here that the old freight motors were in need of repair and the company felt it wasn't worth repairing them. The whole system was set to be dieselized, but the local transit company took over the passenger service.

    Using the DEM and topographic maps, I put in the existing railroad, the former Boston and Maine, Gloucester and Rockport Branch on my CART route, then proceeded to add in the other branches to non-existent terminals. I will say that there was once a number of old quarry railroads in the area, and the premise of my Annisquam to Pigeon Cove line is for that reason. The old ROWs are still there today in real life, but the tracks of these mostly narrow gauge lines is long gone for at least a century. This line actually runs beside Route 127 and has stops in Riverdale, Riverside, and Riverside Station. It was Riverside Station that got me curious about this area in the first place. Today the old quarries have become reservoirs and lakes with parks around them. In my world, I've connected up a line to the much bigger ones including Baystate Granite, and another up in Pigeon Cove. The Rockport terminal is met by a branch that comes up from East Gloucester. In real life there was once a narrow gauge line built to, again, to haul granite and stones. The old ROW is obvious and appears as a straight line out to the beach. When the houses were built in the early 20th century or before, they allowed for the ROW so there's that distinct space between them and their back yards. In my world, this line is connected to the East Gloucester mainline, and it too becomes a busy branch to Long Beach.

    Eastern Point too is featured prominently in both of my versions. Here I put in a branch to a port that doesn't exist. What was once a Coast Guard Station back in the day and marked still on topo maps, is a sea port with some tracks out on the piers. On my Gloucester Route, the trolley cars run on the mainline and the port-side branch peels off and down around the town to the shoreline.

    Taking this one step further, I added in branches to a couple of other areas and a busy branch to Wingersheek. This particular line is double-tracked just like the other parts of the mainline and plays an important part in funneling in traffic to the Gloucester terminal which interchanges both freight and passengers with the B&M at Gloucester. In real life, where I have turn loops on my old Gloucester Terminal route, there was once a substantial freight yard and a short branch into downtown Gloucester to Market Street. Today that branch is long gone and the yard has been replaced by a Shaw's Supermarket or Stop N' Shop.

    This as you can see get's quite complex. The other part of the challenge is putting in the lines so that they are convincing. One of the biggest challenges I find is putting in the tracks, outside of the choice between tunnels and bridges, without breaking roads as much as possible through areas that never had a railroad. The Eastern Point branch, for example follows the real life Route 127a out there. In real life this area is a bit snooty with the big mansions, so I wanted to feature those as well as the trolleys pass through Southeast Harbor, passed some horse farms, and on to Eastern Point where I turned a rather rural area with big mansions into a small town. The line too, being a trolley or interurban line, isn't quite as flat as a heavy rail line would be so the grades are a bit steeper. Being a former interurban too, means the freights are shorter, besides it's only a boxcar or two out on the branch anyway where the car is exchanged at the fishing piers.

    The thing is use your imagination and have fun. If it doesn't work, the only thing lost is some pixels, bits, and time unlike a real model railroad where the plaster, track, mess, and cost of materials and kits comes into play. This is by far the best feature of Trainz. We can not only take an existing route, outside of the built-in stuff, and modify it to our heart's content, we can do this without wasting anything other than our time.
    John
    Trainz User Since: 12-2003
    Trainz User ID: 124863
    T:ANE Build: 94829
    TRS2019: 98592

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Thailand, A.Muang, Nonthaburi
    Posts
    150

    Default

    I heartily agree John. I have a WIP based on an old disused/derelict line in Suffolk UK but I often leave that and build something totally ficticious like my current Island route in which i simply used the built-in ground templates (Mountains 1-3 Valleys1-3 Etc).
    the fun is as you say letting your imagination run wild, and then getting T-ANE to cooperate.
    Keith

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Antarctica, Vostok Base, South Pole, AQ
    Posts
    18,805

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JackDownUnder View Post
    Why complicate construction, with TrainzDEM pick an area and bingo you have it. Any where in the world as far as I am aware.
    Quote Originally Posted by JackDownUnder View Post
    It is all generated by the program.
    NO ... it is not ! You have to download a huge chunk of the earth satellite data ... Delete thousands, if not millions, of extra baseboards ... Download hundreds or thousands of satellite maps, get their coordinates all entered in, one by one ... draw the river, roads, rail lines on each map on the DEM ... simple as that ... You have a completed DEM within a couple of weeks of HARD WORK !

    You just can't say to Transdem: "Hi Transdem" ... "Make me a DEM of the Horseshoe Curve, or SE England" ... it is NOT that simple of a chore !
    Last edited by cascaderailroad; April 10th, 2019 at 05:32 AM.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    United States of America, Delaware, Dover
    Posts
    2,272

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    United States of America, Idaho, Sandpoint
    Posts
    445

    Default

    I have used DEM created blank routes and enjoy thinking about where a railway could or would be built similar to what JCitron describes. Thanks all for your responses.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    United States of America
    Posts
    199
    Blog Entries
    3

    Default

    Using Transdem to make totally bare 3d landscapes is not very hard,(if you can figure out how to download the proper dem files and format) but once you get into using detailed maps to create 3d tiles (like the picture below) and stuff..
    It gets insane... (you better have 64-bit PC, 64gigs of ram, and still multiple SSD's for DiskRAM, if you want huge routes with detailed 3d tile maps that will help you place all the objects for a total real world replica.) (And I only do this for personal fun..)



    Last edited by TINE; April 10th, 2019 at 02:16 PM.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Auran, SA, Adelaide
    Posts
    317

    Default

    That's pretty inspirational.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    United States of America, Pennsylvania, Murrysville
    Posts
    1,054

    Default

    I've seen threads on this forum that contained a lot of unsubstantiated garbage, but this one takes the cake.

    NO ... Transdem does not generate the UTM Map Tile images, nor draw the rail lines, roads and rivers, you need to download satellite data, and apply them into Transdem ... It is not as simple as asking: "Transdem" ... "Make Me a DEM Map"
    TransDEM does indeed create UTM tile objects, and adds them to the map. There's an icon in the user interface (Third from the right) that automatically creates all of the UTM tiles for that particular map. If you're creating a route just using multiple baseboards instead of TransDEM, you still have to add the rail lines, roads, and rivers etc.

    You have to download a huge chunk of the earth satellite data ... Delete thousands, if not millions, of extra baseboards ... Download hundreds or thousands of satellite maps, get their coordinates all entered in, one by one ... draw the river, roads, rail lines on each map on the DEM ... simple as that ... You have a completed DEM within a couple of weeks of HARD WORK.
    "Download a huge chunk of the earth satellite data"? You can download any US Dem Here Click on "Elevation Products (3Dep)" I'm currently working on a route that's 150 miles long. It took 4 DEMs that I downloaded in a half hour.

    "Delete thousands, if not millions of extra baseboards". That is absolutely ridiculous! if you have too many baseboards, that's your own fault. TransDEM gives you complete control of the number of baseboards that you want to install by setting the radius in the TransDEM route filter. I prefer a radius of 3 baseboards on each side of the track.

    "Download hundreds or thousands of satellite maps."? Map Tile Services will do this for you automatically, unless you're creating a route that has been abandoned, and is no longer shown on current USGS maps. You can then download historic maps, and enter the coordinates. The average route will take about 15 to 20 USGS maps.

    "You have a completed DEM within a couple of weeks of HARD WORK" ? My 150 mile route was created in TransDEM, and imported to TANE in one day.

    Posts like these serve no useful purpose, and tend to discourage potential purchasers.

    Joe






  15. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Antarctica, Vostok Base, South Pole, AQ
    Posts
    18,805

    Default

    Last time I used Transdem I had to enter all the latitude longitude upper left hand corner coordinates on each and every UTM tile into Transdem, signally, one by one ... Maybe it has been improved upon since then ... IDK ... I took the program off my PC as it was taking up most of my hard drive

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •