An engine spec needed for an 1870's Beyer-Peacock.

I need a little help. I regularly run this delightful Beyer-Peacock single driver locomotive on my GCR-GER-M&GNR layout and I really like driving it, but trying to find the right engine spec for it has been a bit of a trial. The problem is I don't just want to run it under DCC, but I also want to run it using the 'realistic' advanced controls. So far I've found some engines specs that seemed promising on DCC, but won't work at all using the advanced steam engine controls. At present No.3 has a 2P engine spec by Paul Hobbs which does work well on both DCC and when I use the advanced steam engine controls, but the problem is No.3 is now just too good and has a performance way beyond what it should have. These Beyer-Peacock singles were a very successful design, but they were nothing like as good as how No.3 is at present since No.3 can readily outperform other more modern engines on the line with ease. Despite having made some stunningly fast passenger runs which were amazing fun I really would like to find a more appropriate engine spec for this old engine.
Any useful suggestions would be very much welcomed and received with thanks.

KotangaGirl said:

I need a little help. I regularly run this delightful Beyer-Peacock single driver locomotive on my GCR-GER-M&GNR layout and I really like driving it, but trying to find the right engine spec for it has been a bit of a trial. The problem is I don't just want to run it under DCC, but I also want to run it using the 'realistic' advanced controls. So far I've found some engines specs that seemed promising on DCC, but won't work at all using the advanced steam engine controls. At present No.3 has a 2P engine spec by Paul Hobbs which does work well on both DCC and when I use the advanced steam engine controls, but the problem is No.3 is now just too good and has a performance way beyond what it should have. These Beyer-Peacock singles were a very successful design, but they were nothing like as good as how No.3 is at present since No.3 can readily outperform other more modern engines on the line with ease. Despite having made some stunningly fast passenger runs which were amazing fun I really would like to find a more appropriate engine spec for this old engine.
Any useful suggestions would be very much welcomed and received with thanks.

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Hello KotangaGirl,,,,

Hope you are doing well, I learn more things from you about these Ancient Locos and other Assets you make.....Really amazing stuff you make......Can you imagine how it was when it Rained, Snowed or a really hot day on this engine....I guess something like old Airplanes and Ships, we are so lucky these days with the comfort we have, and yet, we still complain....LOL

I hope someone can find the Engine Spec you need.....Nice looking Loco you are playing with.......

Hi there Blue. The Beyer-Peacock is by Paulz Trainz and is quite a nice model. I've done quite a bit to it with modifying the textures and brought it up to a cosmetic 1970-1890s spec. More than likely it would have had some kind of cab by the time period of my layout, but since I can't do 3D modelling I can't do anything about it. The weatherboard plugs into an attachment point so I would imagine a cab could be made to do the same. Perhaps I should talk to Paul about it and see if he could help me out.

These are the only details I've been able to find for my Beyer-Peacock engine.

Beyer-Peacock 2-2-2 built 1856.

Valve gear Stephensons
Driving wheel dia 78ins
Boiler pressure 120lbs/sq in
Grate area 14 sq ft
Firebox area 82 sq ft
Evaporative heating surface 1010 sq ft
Evap heating surface/Cyl volume ratio 217.01
Cylinders 16"x20"
Tractive effort 6695lbs
Weight 22000 lbs engine only

At least one Beyer-Peacock engine of this design went to Australia. Note that the driving wheel is of a smaller diameter than my one though. http://www.beyerpeacock.co.uk/Drawings/890 Col-El.pdf

Some went to Europe, but I don't have any details of those.

With the engines specs I've tried so far let's start off with the original Paulz Trainz one. For a start it steams like the devil himself was doing the stoking which would be Ok if I couldn't manage to do 50mph on 7% cutoff with the regulator barely cracked open. The Paulz Trainz engine specs have the worst brakes ever by the way which is why I modded the Beyer-Peacock's tender to have working brakes before I started to look at other engine specs.

I have a De Glenn compound with the same '68005' engine spec and if I hang 12 of Steve Flander's excellent GWR coaches behind it the engine spec gets tamed a little, but with a much lighter engine like the Beyer-Peacock the poor thing gets turned into a uber steam powered roller skate.

By the way all tests were done with five six wheel coaches that Trainz said was a 87 ton load.

Several engine specs had zero steam pressure when tried in advanced mode so they were out for a start. Others had good steam pressure, but it disappeared moment the regulator was cracked open and it never recovered.

Camscott's E8 engine spec showed some promise with having good regulator and reverser controls that worked realistically, but it wouldn't steam no matter what I did despite being hungry for coal and thirsty for water, -and eventually at a long signal stop the steam in the boiler just faded away and never came back.

Paul Hobb's 2P engine spec is a good steamer with the steam pressure staying at around 120 lbs/in which fits the Beyer-Peacock's specs nicely. The engine can be driven realistically with the reverser which works precisely and well (I read '2750, - Story of a Locomotive' when I was 14 so I learned all about this technique and never forgot it). The brakes are good in a perfectly realistic and believable way; - the only problem is this old Beyer-Peacock would have been a great contender in the 'Race to the North' if it'd had the same level of performance as I'm getting with Paul Hobb's engine spec.

So that's where I am at the moment. If all else fails I'll keep using Paul Hobb's 2P engine spec and just drive sensibly, but it would be nice if I could find an engine spec that was a little closer to my old Beyer-Peacock's actual performance.

So I've found a contender. Paul Hobb's Y7 engine spec. I can hear the cries of 'No!' and 'No way!' from the audience, but bear with me. For a start it makes good steam and doesn't die off or fade away. I will admit that as an e.spec it is just a little underboilered for the Beyer-Peacock, but not enough to put it out of contention. With a train it's excellent, - the reverser and the regulator work as they should nice and precisely. I had no problems maintaining steam and did all the right things with not making the fire too thick or suddenly dumping a lot of cold water in the boiler. I did mess up once though, but it didn't cause too much of a problem.
I did a complete circuit of Valleyfields which is about 30 scale miles without any problems at all. No steam pressure dying away at stations stops or any other such problems as I had with some other e.specs. Very easy to drive using the reverser to control speed and power which is my favoured driving techique. Braking is good, being believably realistic rather than 'snap your neck and try to hold your eyeballs in' type braking which I've struck before with some DLS downloads.
My Beyer-Peacock is no longer a 'Race to the North' contender, but I think it will now suit my GER secondary lines just fine.

By the way this is the book I mentioned in one of my earlier posts in this thread. The author spent much or his working life on the footplate and around steam engines so it's a seriously good read for anybody interested in railways. Published in 1953 so it might be a bit hard to find, but there are copies around second hand if you want to look for them.

The best easily available UK steam especs are by 2995Valliant. Most of the others around are generic or made using instant calculators. He has some on the DLS for broad gauge singles which might not be too far away.

KotangaGirl said:

By the way this is the book I mentioned in one of my earlier posts in this thread. The author spent much or his working life on the footplate and around steam engines so it's a seriously good read for anybody interested in railways. Published in 1953 so it might be a bit hard to find, but there are copies around second hand if you want to look for them.

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You can Order it from Waterstones in the UK £19.99 compared to £57 second hand from Amazon!

edh6 said:

The best easily available UK steam especs are by 2995Valliant. Most of the others around are generic or made using instant calculators. He has some on the DLS for broad gauge singles which might not be too far away.

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The problem with the Broad Gauge ones Ed is that they are designed to be DCC only and if tried under the advanced controls the boilers don't produce any steam. I had great hopes for them and ended up being disappointed.

The e.specs I tried by Paul Hobbs worked well and produced good steam, but as you say there are a lot of not very good e.specs around and when put to the test in the advanced controls they can't steam for toffee.

clam1952 said:

You can Order it from Waterstones in the UK £19.99 compared to £57 second hand from Amazon!

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Thanks, I have made a note of that Malc. The copy I read when I was 14 was a library book and it would be really nice to find a copy of the book to call my own.

G'day,

I've got an e-spec for a similar loco, it's around 5,000 lbf tractive effort at 90 PSI Working Pressure...


Cheers.

Is that e.spec on the DLS Azervich?

I'm very surprised that the 2995Valliant ones don't work in cab mode. Normally they are very carefully set up and researched.

I must remember to look at the Australian stuff available from Azervich when choosing specs for my locos, some are probably quite close to British classes for the 1900s type era.

G'day,

Their not on DLS as I'm still working on them, however I will put them here for people to have a play

locomotives

I've actually got about 100 e-specs made for different types of locos and rolling stock however some are good and some are really bad, pretty much most of the Australian steam locomotives where built in England, for example some of you have seen Zec's DD Class locomotives that where built and designed at Newport Workshops, a tender was put in for Beyer Peacock to build 20 of them.

Another thing that can prevent e-specs from working on Cab mode is the interior kuid, cabs with dummy controls don't work in Cab mode.... I've found using invis meshes with named controls on them work properly in dummy cab.

Cheers.

edh6 said:

I'm very surprised that the 2995Valliant ones don't work in cab mode. Normally they are very carefully set up and researched.

I must remember to look at the Australian stuff available from Azervich when choosing specs for my locos, some are probably quite close to British classes for the 1900s type era.

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I was using the Firefly e.spec Ed and while it was really great in DCC when I shifted over to the advanced controls the steam pressure in the boiler was zero.
And this is another thing I understand that pressing the 'N' key starts the blower, but I've never been able to get it to work on any of the e.specs I tried.

I use Azervich's brake van e.specs on all my brake vans Ed and what a difference it makes to driving with a loose coupled goods train.

Azervich said:

G'day,

Their not on DLS as I'm still working on them, however I will put them here for people to have a play

locomotives

I've actually got about 100 e-specs made for different types of locos and rolling stock however some are good and some are really bad, pretty much most of the Australian steam locomotives where built in England, for example some of you have seen Zec's DD Class locomotives that where built and designed at Newport Workshops, a tender was put in for Beyer Peacock to build 20 of them.

Another thing that can prevent e-specs from working on Cab mode is the interior kuid, cabs with dummy controls don't work in Cab mode.... I've found using invis meshes with named controls on them work properly in dummy cab.

Cheers.

Click to expand...

Thank you very much Azervich making your e.specs available is very much appreciated.

That's a very useful tip about the cab interiors. I didn't know about that and it might have been a factor with some of the e.specs not working.

Wow! I didn't realise you were making copies of your 1860s engines available too Azervich. Thank you very much, - thank you very much indeed.

I included the locos to give you an idea how the e-spec will handle, allot of people don't know this however the anim-dist on the driver bogie can change how the loco produces power, smaller wheels increase power while larger wheels decrease power

for example in real life 18x26in cylinders with 4ft6in wheels at 112 PSI is 17,400blf while 5ft0in wheels is 14,025lbf and 6ft0in wheels is about 12,600lbf.... trainz also models this, if you open the e-spec I gave you and see the notepad (data) it has the cylinder volume calculations, all steam physics I've released from 2016 to now use this method, trainz also has a script code called "get-max-tractive-effort" and tells you the tractive effort at the low pressure safetyvalve setting, I set it to the running pressure, so 140PSI / 80% WP = 112PSI so I adjust the bore until it matches, I never change the stroke, this will cause issues if the stroke is too long or too short, too long causes excessive wheelspin and too short the loco pretty much sticks to the rails like Billegulla's spread sheet specs as he adjusts the stroke rather then letting the anim-dist do that.

Cheers.