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Thread: Beware Silver Ticket Issue

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  1. #1
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    Unhappy Beware Silver Ticket Issue

    I recently tried the Silver Ticket option that was offered on a trial basis. I quickly determined that the program was not something I was interested in and cancelled after the second month. The problem was that I still had items gained from the membership placed on my Routes and Sessions. When the membership was terminated these items became corrupted and I am unable to delete them in game.

    I contacted the Trainz Support team and was given a list of actions I need to take to remove these items. Unfortunately, it involves complex steps that I have no ability to perform. I have communicated my displeasure in the remedy but have not heard back.

    The Trainz community should be aware that if they plan on cancelling the Silver Ticket membership (and I assume the Gold Ticket also) they should remove any items gained during the program from their Routes and Sessions beforehand.

  2. #2
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    For routes and sessions use delete missing assets should remove them.
    Malc


  3. #3
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    Default Thank You

    Quote Originally Posted by clam1952 View Post
    For routes and sessions use delete missing assets should remove them.
    I very much appreciate the suggestion. I was able to rid myself of the ghost consist in one of my sessions. Why couldn't Trainz Support start with something so simple? I was floored by what they expected me to do to fix their problem.

    I was also able to delete the only other known issue with another Route I am working on. I got a Missing Dependency on the Route (the Broken Knuckle Icon) after unsubscribing from the Silver Ticket. I found a couple of SAP Dock assets that had disappeared but somehow they left the track behind. I was unable to delete or move that item leaving tracks suspiciously hanging in mid air.

    I finally deleted the attached track that then allowed me to delete the SAP Dock track. This cleared up the MD icon. I think I'm finally in the clear again.

    Much Thanks.

  4. #4
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    Hi Malc,

    To someone who is a complete novice at this, please could you explain where do I find the command "delete missing assets"

    Mike

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiwikid1940 View Post
    To someone who is a complete novice at this, please could you explain where do I find the command "delete missing assets"
    Don't do it. Contact the help desk, get the complete, correct procedure to follow, and if you have difficulty with it get back to the help desk until they have taken you through each and every step, and every route and session is back in correct working order.

  6. #6
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    OK thanks for the information.
    Mike

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by SailorDan View Post
    Don't do it. Contact the help desk, get the complete, correct procedure to follow, and if you have difficulty with it get back to the help desk until they have taken you through each and every step, and every route and session is back in correct working order.
    Unfortunately I have found my experience using the Help Desk to be more painful and disappointing than it's worth. I still have faulty track on one of my large Routes from TANE that I had to bury under the landscape. The debacle called TANE will never leave me! This problem of never taking responsibility for their errors in coding comes from the top. A new owner or management will be the only hope for real change.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by clam1952 View Post
    For routes and sessions use delete missing assets should remove them.
    That might get rid of the messages, but it damages the routes and sessions.

    The information provided about the subscription clearly states that it can be terminated at any time. It should also state that that terminating the subscription leaves the rest of your system in this damaged state, with a complex (and quite undocumented) procedure to try and restore things to how they were before. The problem has been shrugged off and ignored.

    The impression it creates is that the 'free' trial offer is simply a technique to trap people into the subscription model by making it difficult to leave. There is enough concern and misunderstanding about this new direction for the franchise without creating this additional issue. It needs to be fixed promptly.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by SailorDan View Post
    That might get rid of the messages, but it damages the routes and sessions.

    The information provided about the subscription clearly states that it can be terminated at any time. It should also state that that terminating the subscription leaves the rest of your system in this damaged state, with a complex (and quite undocumented) procedure to try and restore things to how they were before. The problem has been shrugged off and ignored.

    The impression it creates is that the 'free' trial offer is simply a technique to trap people into the subscription model by making it difficult to leave. There is enough concern and misunderstanding about this new direction for the franchise without creating this additional issue. It needs to be fixed promptly.
    Are you saying NOT to use a permanent tool displayed in the main menu? You may be absolutely correct but do you know how ridiculous that sounds? If this doesn't show how poorly the game is managed I don't know what would.

    My main reason for posting the BEWARE of Silver Ticket was to voice my concerns for what people will be getting themselves into. The model might sound like a money saver, that's how they are marketing it. In the long run you keep paying the monthly charge and accumulate items but it's a Lease not a purchase. If this is what you have to go though to terminate the Lease, imagine what it will be like once you have Routes full of Silver Ticket items? You will have to continue with the Lease even when you're not playing the game, even when you get sick or go off to school.

    It's like banking sick days and weeks of vacation in a job you hate. Are you going to be willing to lose everything that you've accumulated? That's the purpose. To lock you in to making monthly payments. I couldn't run fast enough from the Silver Ticket program. The fact that they are not up front with how the Silver Ticket works should tell you enough. They tell you how easy it is to reclaim your items when you rejoin but they are not clear that it's a Lease program, not items that are outright purchased and owned by the player. They are certainly not open about what happens to the items in the game when you terminate. All the customer should have to do is cancel their subscription. The fact that I was pulled down this rabbit hole is inexcusable.

    As it currently stands there is no way to differentiate Payware from DLS items in game. I've suggested that they indicate the Payware items with their own special color (yellow) like they already do for Faulty items. This should take someone to break time to get done. Just copy the code that does it for the Faulty and change a few parameters and you're done. Or it should be that simple if the code is written properly. This suggestion was passed along but it doesn't sound like much of a priority. This would prevent people from falling into the trap of needing to continue the subscription or else live with the consequences of having to individually replace every Silver Ticket item before cancelling. Good luck with that!

  10. #10
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    As it currently stands there is no way to differentiate Payware from DLS items in game.

    I should say there's no practical way to do that. They came back with the ridiculous suggestion that I should go to Manage Content each and every time I want to place an item or use a texture. That isn't acceptable when you are working on a large Route. It actually doubles the time to build. It's time consuming enough to figure out what most of the items are in game.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by montycrafter View Post
    As it currently stands there is no way to differentiate Payware from DLS items in game.

    I should say there's no practical way to do that. They came back with the ridiculous suggestion that I should go to Manage Content each and every time I want to place an item or use a texture. That isn't acceptable when you are working on a large Route. It actually doubles the time to build. It's time consuming enough to figure out what most of the items are in game.
    Actually there is a way to tell the difference.

    Launch TRS19.
    At the Routes screen, or in Driver or Surveyor, click on the theree bars in the upper left corner.

    Click on the settings..
    Click on the General Settings.
    Click on Show Object/Track/Train KUIDS in Surveyor.

    What this will do is show the asset IDs when you go to the menus to select objects.

    Any asset that has a Yellow ID is built-in or DLC
    Blue is Third-party or modified
    Red is your own
    White is off the DLS.

    This is as close as you'll get while in Surveyor.

    Using the Delete Missing assets in a route and a session is fine. Just do a back up first prior to doing that in case things go wrong. Things usually don't go tits up, but that's because you've done a backup just in case.

    FYI: What doesn't work is editing the route or session config.txt files to remove assets. This will do that temporarily until you need to do a database repair or there's a program update. The reason is the actual asset is tracked in specific files related to the route and the session and not actually in the config.txt files where the asset listed is for filtering and searching purposes.

    What I think the helpdesk was eluding to was to remove the packages and redownload them. What this does is force a download of the DLC again. It's not difficult, but there should be a menu option to do that in Content Manager so not to involve a manual, i.e. computer IT technician approach. I worked in the computer and IT industry for over 35 years and now retired, and I fully believe in the KISS method.
    John
    Trainz User Since: 12-2003
    Trainz User ID: 124863
    T:ANE Build: 94829
    TRS2019: 98592

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by montycrafter View Post
    Are you saying NOT to use a permanent tool displayed in the main menu?
    No. I am saying that it is not the correct solution for this problem.

    Deleting the missing assets from the route or session will remove the messages about missing assets. But the assets are 'missing' because they are marked as inactive payware. So the correct solution is to replace the inactive payware with the items that the payware replaced when it was installed. That's what the process provided by the help desk does, although it is very complex.

    Removing missing assets from a route or session can be a useful feature, but in this case you want the assets to be in the route or session, not removed.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by SailorDan View Post
    No. I am saying that it is not the correct solution for this problem.

    Deleting the missing assets from the route or session will remove the messages about missing assets. But the assets are 'missing' because they are marked as inactive payware. So the correct solution is to replace the inactive payware with the items that the payware replaced when it was installed. That's what the process provided by the help desk does, although it is very complex.

    Removing missing assets from a route or session can be a useful feature, but in this case you want the assets to be in the route or session, not removed.
    Unfortunately, I have MS and that keeps me from having any chance to do what they asked. What's my exposure in my Routes? If I follow John's suggestion to keep Payware off my builds do I still have a problem?

    TIA

  14. #14
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    No, I mean corrupted. There were assets that were 'ghosting' my session. That means they were there but you couldn't do anything to or with them. I was able to delete the whole train that 2 items were attached to and that got them out of the game (I assume). The other loco was on its own track and was invisible. The directional arrows were visible though.

    Montycrafter, I would very much like to thank you for your detailed report. Now that I understand the situation fully, and have run some test, I can confirm there are several things we need to address with the current process.


    The problems here are that:
    * There is currently no indication in game or CM that the route is "missing" content when it includes Payware (not active) or disabled items.
    * There is no indication in-game that there is missing content (unless "Show missing assets" option is enabled)
    * There is no prompt to indicate that you are about to load a route/session that is likely to have problems.
    * It is not intuitive to run a "Delete Missing Assets" to fix the problem.
    * If the game deleted missing content automatically, that would be really bad.
    * If the missing content is on the tracks, it causes derailments (and confusion, whereas a missing piece of track would show up as a gap in the track).

    I have asked our dev team to investigate the best ways to address these issues.

    Regarding understanding the process prior to cancelling, I have asked our web team to provide detailed information on the cancellation page to ensure that people (at least those who read the information) are aware of the outcome of cancelling.

    Regarding not being clear as to "leasing" the content, the current FAQ states "After your membership expires, when you next log in to Trainz your DLC items will show as “Not Active”."

    We will update our FAQs to make it even clearer what that means in practical terms.
    Tony Hilliam

    Got questions about TRS19? Click here for TRS19 FAQs

    Looking for answers to in-game functionality? Click here for help

  15. #15
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    I recently tried the Silver Ticket option that was offered on a trial basis. I quickly determined that the program was not something I was interested in and cancelled after the second month.
    .
    Thanks for the feedback - I'd be interested whether the issue was price, quantity, quality, or something else.

    The problem was that I still had items gained from the membership placed on my Routes and Sessions. When the membership was terminated these items became corrupted and I am unable to delete them in game.

    By "corrupted" I assume you mean "not active" (and therefore not usable). Clearly if all the items were still available, then everyone could subscribe for a month then cancel and maintain access to all the content. It should be pretty clear that access is available only while your subscription is active.

    I contacted the Trainz Support team and was given a list of actions I need to take to remove these items. Unfortunately, it involves complex steps that I have no ability to perform. I have communicated my displeasure in the remedy but have not heard back.

    The steps to remove the content are voluntary. The items can co-exist quite happily in your installation. We have plans to improve the uninstall process for DLC, but meanwhile the manual steps (which, in short, are to delete the packages, then rebuild the database) are the only option.

    The Trainz community should be aware that if they plan on cancelling the Silver Ticket membership (and I assume the Gold Ticket also) they should remove any items gained during the program from their Routes and Sessions beforehand.

    There is no requirement to remove anything (although if you need everything to be "neat and tidy" then it can be done without too much hassle).

    Any items that have been used in a route or session will be "missing". You have a choice to replace the items (manually) or use "Delete Missing Assets" to clear them out.

    Replacing the items while your subscription is active is easier as you can use the in-game tools to do so. We also have plans to improve the replace missing assets tools so the items can be replaced just as easily when they aren't installed/available.

    It's true that the current process is not perfect or foolproof, but we'll continue to improve our processes to make it better.
    Tony Hilliam

    Got questions about TRS19? Click here for TRS19 FAQs

    Looking for answers to in-game functionality? Click here for help

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