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Thread: The major problem with moving old content to TRS19 standards N3vs 500 limit [solved]

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by KenGreen View Post
    If the rules change again the creator can decide whether the effort is worth the benefit.

    Ken
    And you thought it wasn't a life time commitment when you created a simple scenery item.

    Cheerio John

  2. #32
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    Let me see if I have this right for a scenery item such as a building or structure based on all the comments here.

    As an example, say I want to build the absolute acceptable minimum code in my content item in order to simply get past the 500 polygon error message (yes, I know this is not optimal). For this I would have two meshes. The first one would be the full detail mesh seen up to 500 meters. The second would be a simple cube after 500 meters (should this cube be invisible?). Here is what I think the code would look like to do this.

    Code:
    mesh-table-lod-transition-distances     500.0
    
    mesh-table
    {
      lod0
      {
        auto-create                         1
        mesh                                "lod0.im"
        lod-level                           0
      }
      
      lod1
      {
        auto-create                         1
        mesh                                "lod1.im"
        lod-level                           1
      }
    }
    Here is a screenshot test I ran on a bare baseboard using my soon to be available U.S. turntable and roundhouse. At 1640 feet (500 meters) the object is still fairly visible:



    Question: For this absolute minimal LOD code what do you recommend as a maximum distance that the fully featured mesh should be seen before we move to the cube?

    BTW be kind folks. I know some of you hotshots out there can do this in your sleep, but I'm new to this LOD stuff, and just recently returned to content design after a couple of years of not doing it....

    Bob
    Master Sergeant/E8, U.S. Army, Retired (1972-1993)

  3. #33
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    I'm only up to TS12 so not sure what happens with TANE and TS19, however uploading a signal a few weeks ago I got warning messages from the DLS that it might cause performance problems.


    The signal is made up of a post with four animated arms attached.
    The post is getting on for two thousand polys, with a medium LOD and low LOD down to around fifty.


    The problem is with the arms. They are almost three hundred polys a piece, so the completed signal gets a warning that the lowest LOD is the total minimum count, about nine hundred.


    That makes sense, but if I try to add LOD to a signal arm TS12 content manager rejects it saying the polycount is too low to require LOD........am I supposed to add an extra two hundred polys to the arms so that I can add LOD?


    Something hardly ever mentioned on the forum is the maximum polygons the game can render in a scene. I know it used to be around the million mark, but windwlkr said it was more now, but when asked didn't have a figure. Perhaps this is something to keep in mind now that large draw distances are possible.


    Chris.

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    Quote Originally Posted by paulhobbs View Post
    Actually I'm amazed the asset works at all, it has major issues with the materials (they are named as *.m.onetex but are actually *.m.notex and one of them has .001 in the name which will get it ignored by Trainz). There are also 4 materials, so 4 draw calls which is possibly worse than the high tri count.Paul
    Thanks for pointing this out as I missed it. For the lamp I used the original authors settings/material names and didn't check them - which I should have. That's what I get for assuming he had it right to begin with. I have corrected this and will be putting out a new version that will fix the material names issue.

    BTW I did reduce the triangles in Blender using Decimate (damn handy that!) and applied smoothing as well.....

    Bob
    Last edited by MSGSapper; March 9th, 2019 at 09:33 AM.
    Master Sergeant/E8, U.S. Army, Retired (1972-1993)

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnwhelan View Post
    And you thought it wasn't a life time commitment when you created a simple scenery item.

    Cheerio John
    Yeah, silly me for thinking that I could actually design a content item and never have to look back.

    With just shy of 2000 content items on the DLS, I don't look forward to having to meet the new TRS19 standards for all of them. This is beginning to be more work then fun to satisfy each new Trainz major release changes. I now spend more time updating then I do on brand new creations.....

    Bob
    Master Sergeant/E8, U.S. Army, Retired (1972-1993)

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    LOD came out in TRS2004 and I have been using it for almost every thing I have made it's not that hard.

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    Haven't really looked at lod in TRS19 properly as still creating up to TANE however Just been playing with the new method.

    For two lod levels try this

    mesh-table-lod-transition-distances 500,2000,5000

    adding the third value equates to having a null lod thus it is not rendered obviously the third value probably doesn't need to be at 5000 metres but at what ever distance you can't see it at.


    If as in your case you just have one mesh and no lod mesh, try this? cribbed from a 4.6 builtin asset, a large 27000 poly station with no actual lod mesh and just lod-level1

    mesh-table-lod-transition-distances 500,5000 that turns off rendering at over 5000m.


    If you play with the values and use the preview in manage Content you can zoom in and out to check it doesn't vanish too soon plus actually check the lod level appearances, obviously if just using 1 mesh it would be there or not there.
    Malc


  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSGSapper View Post
    Yeah, silly me for thinking that I could actually design a content item and never have to look back.

    This is beginning to be more work then fun to satisfy each new Trainz major release changes. I now spend more time updating then I do on brand new creations.....

    Bob
    I know of a number of content creators who sympathise and then you get into reskins of your work. The reskinner has to upload the corrected version.

    Cheerio John

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisaw View Post
    Something hardly ever mentioned on the forum is the maximum polygons the game can render in a scene. I know it used to be around the million mark, but windwlkr said it was more now, but when asked didn't have a figure. Perhaps this is something to keep in mind now that large draw distances are possible.
    There's no meaningful cap. The higher it goes, the lower your performance (all else being equal) but poly count is hardly the only thing which can clobber performance.

    It's true that I have no idea what the typical overall poly count in a scene is; there's so much variation from route to route and from area to area in the route that it's not possible to express in a single number. Certainly it's not unusual to see tens of millions of polygons in a scene; not that I'm suggesting that this is a good thing.

    chris

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    Quote Originally Posted by clam1952 View Post
    For two lod levels try this

    mesh-table-lod-transition-distances 500,2000,5000

    ..

    If as in your case you just have one mesh and no lod mesh, try this? cribbed from a 4.6 builtin asset, a large 27000 poly station with no actual lod mesh and just lod-level1

    mesh-table-lod-transition-distances 500,5000 that turns off rendering at over 5000m.

    In both cases here, you seem to have one extra number. These are transition distances: with two transitions, there are three LOD levels.

    If you have only one mesh and you want to turn it off at some distance, use a single number (which is the cutoff distance).

    chris

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    Quote Originally Posted by WindWalkr View Post
    In both cases here, you seem to have one extra number. These are transition distances: with two transitions, there are three LOD levels.

    If you have only one mesh and you want to turn it off at some distance, use a single number (which is the cutoff distance).

    chris
    Thanks Chris, I have actually just twigged, result of looking at someone else's config, found out it weren't quite right on checking in the Preview. Think I've got it now!

    Presumably it would be good for performance to use this method even on an asset with lod under 500 polys?
    Malc


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    One person said here to use a LM.txt file, others gave different other solutions such as using a cube, and I see conflicting examples and information from N3V on their site. And they wonder why some of us not-so-experienced content designers are confused by all this regarding meeting LOD requirements.

    While it may be clear to you, it isn't at all to me at this point.

    Use of LM.Txt:

    http://online.ts2009.com/mediaWiki/i...hp/LM.txt_file

    Level of Detail:

    http://online.ts2009.com/mediaWiki/i...evel_of_Detail

    A conflicting example:

    http://online.ts2009.com/mediaWiki/i...hp/LOD_Example

    Another tutorial which is apparently out of date but seems the best example:

    http://online.ts2009.com/mediaWiki/i...t_Trainz_Asset

    Can anyone provide me clear and concise config.txt CODE here in this thread as an example for a scenery item (ie; building or structure) with just one single mesh only?

    Assumptions for this code:

    1. You will not see the building past 1000 meters.
    2. It must not generate the 500 polygon error message.
    3. It must work in build 4.6 or later.

    Thanks for any help!

    Bob
    Last edited by MSGSapper; March 9th, 2019 at 01:30 PM.
    Master Sergeant/E8, U.S. Army, Retired (1972-1993)

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSGSapper View Post
    One person said here to use a LM.txt file, others gave different other solutions such as using a cube, and I see conflicting examples and information from N3V on their site. And they wonder why some of us not-so-experienced content designers are confused by all this regarding meeting LOD requirements.

    While it may be clear to you, it isn't at all to me at this point.

    Use of LM.Txt:

    http://online.ts2009.com/mediaWiki/i...hp/LM.txt_file

    Level of Detail:

    http://online.ts2009.com/mediaWiki/i...evel_of_Detail

    A conflicting example:

    http://online.ts2009.com/mediaWiki/i...hp/LOD_Example

    Another tutorial which is apparently out of date but seems the best example:

    http://online.ts2009.com/mediaWiki/i...t_Trainz_Asset

    Can anyone provide me clear and concise config.txt CODE here in this thread as an example for a scenery item (ie; building or structure) with just one single mesh only?

    Assumptions for this code:

    1. You will not see the building past 1000 meters.
    2. It must not generate the 500 polygon error message.
    3. It must work in build 4.6 or later.

    Thanks for any help!

    Bob
    There are two slightly different methods. The first uses lm.txt and requires a low poly lod mesh which is referenced in the lm.txt file the second slightly more sophisticated method uses an lm.txt file but this time there is only one mesh and you use the cut off in lm.txt file to effectively remove the asset at whatever distance you set it to.

    I don't think N3V ever had been very good at documentation.

    Cheerio John

  14. #44

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    To my knowledge, the use of an lm.txt file is only intended for rolling stock.
    As a result, I would not be surprised if that one day turns into an error (for everything not being rolling stock).

    Happy to be pointed at documentation that proves me wrong.

  15. #45
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    Try:

    mesh-table {
    lod0 {

    LOD-level 0
    autocreate 1
    mesh "my_mesh"
    }
    lod1 {
    lod-level 1
    autocreate 0
    mesh ""
    }
    }
    mesh-table-LOD-transition-distances 1000,2000



    I'm away from my PC so can't verify.


    edit: The mesh-detail-level-count has gone for TB4.6
    Last edited by pcas1986; March 9th, 2019 at 02:34 PM.

    Paul


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