How does the Gold membership affect update policy?

B

-Basti-

Active member
Hey guys,

i did not find a similar thread, so i'm starting a new one.

In the (remaining :( ) german Trainz community, there are rumors about how the gold membership will affect regular updates for Trainz products.

I know only few people that prefer a monthly subscription over a one-time buy, maybe we are locally a little different.
Regarding your announcement, there is the worry, that the regular updates will suffer from the subscription-model.

Will there still be regular updates for the normal purchase version? Will they also bring new features like it was usual in the past?

Or do we regular buyers now have to pay for program updates?

I'd welcome some clarification.

Thank you

Sebastian
 
I am guessing that you are referring to the SPs and HFs that have been released for previous Trainz products?

Looking back at the history of previous Trainz versions, there has never been a huge number of patches and updates released, not like MS products - although it does seem to depend on what you call an update, a patch or a "new edition".

Judging by the build version numbers, TS2004, TS2009 and TS2010 all had 4 SPs released, TS12 had only 1 while TANE seems (so far) to have been through a 5 changes some of which were called "community editions". TANE SP3 is currently still in beta testing.

I could find no information about HFs.

Not all SPs introduced new features, some were straight bug fixes (sometimes introducing new bugs in the process). Some were classified as "under the hood" changes and efficiency improvements. From memory only a few SPs did introduce new features.

With the above somewhat sketchy information in mind, it would be reasonable to expect that updates, in the form of bug fixes, "under the hood" changes, and other efficiency improvements, would continue for non-subscription users such as myself. As for new features appearing in SPs (as they have on occasions in the past), I would not rule that out.

My thoughts only.
 
-Basti- said:
In the (remaining :( ) german Trainz community, there are rumors about how the gold membership will affect regular updates for Trainz products.
Click to expand...

The Features for Gold only (First Time) looks "Standard" for a Trainsimulator today... (take a look to DTG, Lotus and many more...)
N3v say: Take a Membership for "only" 180 EUR / Year or wait 3 Years.


There are classic Features for Servicepack / Update not for a new Version!

Surveyor Menubar
Hotkeys / Controls
Darkened Tunnels
Additional braking systems including:
  • Vacuum brakes
  • EP brakes
  • Twin pipe air (brake distributor)
Wheelslip
Handbrakes
Start-up / shutdown
Locomotive Sounds Rework
Scenery sounds
Track sounds
Content Manager
  • Picklists
  • User Interface improvement
Content Creator Support Systems

  • Documentation / Tutorials
  • Additional Creation Tools
Asset Download Systems (managing in-game downloads)
Texture Atlasing
DX12
Other Performance Enhancements

Now Tony is coming and say:
"The new Gold Class membership option includes a range of different benefits, including early access to upcoming Trainz features." [...] and how these new features will be rolled out to our Gold Class members and then become available in future editions of Trainz to all users. We plan to release these updates every quarter, with a range of new features, as well as some "in-development" features that can be enabled and tested out by members. Then, every two or three years, these features will be combined into a new “full product” release which will be available in online stores (along with all new content that takes advantage of these features)

First i pay 60 EUR for Trainz2019 and if i want DX12 (standard today) or "Other Performance Enhancements" or "Documentation / Tutorials" i need to pay again... ?
 
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With the above somewhat sketchy information in mind, it would be reasonable to expect that updates, in the form of bug fixes, "under the hood" changes, and other efficiency improvements, would continue for non-subscription users such as myself. As for new features appearing in SPs (as they have on occasions in the past), I would not rule that out.
Click to expand...

That's what I expect, but I want to make sure that i'm right.

I also hope for some features that are added also as Service Pack like in the past.

41nvkwg1GCL.jpg
 
The way I understand this, and I maybe off somewhere in the wrong field here, is the Gold subscribers get to play with new product features first. Once the Gold subscribers play around and test, these updates are eventually worked into the full product later on for the regular product users.

Service packs and hot-fixes, I think are treated differently and apply across the board because they are not introducing new features unless they didn't make it into the product at release. These could be such things as TRS2004 SP2 introducing the interactive industries, or the interlocking towers being introduced in T:ANE SP1 because these features were promised during the intial release, but didn't make it in due to technical reasons.
 
JCitron said:
Once the Gold subscribers play around and test, these updates are eventually worked into the full product later on for the regular product users.
Click to expand...

So you pay 180 EUR/ Year to be a Beta Tester? And what about authors who are Gold Members and create Content?(Build Version ?) Think the whole thing a bit further ... No matter how you turn it, is becoming clearer in which direction it will go in the future. In the United Kingdom, the sparkling wine is certainly already cold.

Maybe the newsletter was misunderstood in Germany. Marketing and public relations have never been the strength of N3v. Brake systems, wheel slip, Dx12 are actually standards today for a simulator. Even an author's guide for money would be a bad joke. I'm convinced Tony will bring us light in the dark.
 
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I've just noticed one point (on the gold member benefit list):

Content Creator Support Systems


  • Documentation / Tutorials
  • Additional Creation Tools
Click to expand...

I hope this is an (quite early) april's fool. Instead of providing content creators with as much support as possible for free, they have to be gold member to find their information? Did you forget where Trainz came from (= how trainz grew up compared to competitors)?

Just Speechlessness.
 
I find it very hard to understand all this angst about the subscription service from N3V. Consider the next two software packages some of us use. Photoshop monthly $29.99 AUD. Photoshop annual lic $343 AUD. Substance Painter Indie lic $27.99 per month or $208.99 per year. I personally don't see any difference. It's the way all software packages are starting to go.

It's your choice to either pay for a subscription or not.
 
Photoshop and Substance Painters are not games. Both are complex software used in B2B. A B2C version (subscription / month) is a private version. Trainz is a simple game and so the comparison is wrong. And of course you do not have to buy it, (gold) but every purchase promotes the chosen path of N3v.


Just think, there is a split. Different versions (build, features, basics) for different groups of people. Likewise, many things are listed which are overdue for years for a railroad game.


After years, there was finally the chance that Trainz can compete with other products. But then N3v sees only gold (sry Goldmember);) It's not about fear! Basically it's about people who have made Trainz what it is to forget.
 
There appears to be some misunderstanding here. We have provided a list of things we're looking at implementing over the coming years. Some will be free, some will be paid (just as in the past) and some will be be replaced in the list by higher priority items.

To clarify some points raised:
* Not all features introduced will go through Trainz Plus / Gold Membership first
* The release of the Trainz Plus update does not directly affect any service pack updates for TRS19 purchasers (see below)
* The list includes updates to existing systems as well as totally new systems
* There will be a future release of Trainz with loads of new features and content that users will have the choice of purchasing (just as with TRS2004/6/9/2010/12/TANE/TRS19)

Service packs are primarily, but not exclusively, released to rectify critical bugs or to solve regressions. Due to the greatly extended testing time and community involvement in testing TANE service packs and TRS19 over the past 4 years, there has not been an immediate requirement to release a service pack for TRS19. There will be free updates coming for TRS19 (and TANE as well).

The whole point here is that development requires an investment of time and money. We're doing everything we can to ensure we keep improving the product. We're not ignoring any group, and given that TRS19 is clearly our best ever version of Trainz, those who have made the decision to purchase it have a great product to enjoy right now. If they want to add to that experience, then they will need to pay.
 
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Hello Tony,

thank you for the answer.

So not all features (wbesite) become payware? Features that I have listed below are standard on all other Sims and you have missed them for years in Trainz. For such things would one demand money?

- wheel slip
- DX12
- rain effect
- real braking system
- Handbrake
- Texture Atlasing
- Other Performance Enhancements
- Documentation / Tutorials and Tools


Do not get me wrong, the current Trainz is finally after years a game which might catch up to other simulators. It would be a shame if you lost this opportunity now. Currently I know some great authors who load nothing after the introduction of subscription and advertising on the DLS. Some others will soon switch to a game with the u4.

Please think about your communication with the people who made Trainz big, and for whom it was ok to sell their content (Free DLS Content) in N3v products. You are driving some people really angry. The strength of Trainz was always freeware / good content, a free development (slow and step by step), finally great DLC from 3DZUG, and the fans have contributed many mistakes, some even hundreds of dollars donated, Trainz was never really finished but the fans have supported it.

You mediate (and this is understandable) that you would now like to generate DLC and revenue on the model like DT *. This is not bad in principle, but then such misunderstandings as this newsletter and many other announcements may not happen.

In the short term, this works, but in the long run, there is nothing left on the DLS, which is worth settling for a DLC. ;) Why? See above...
 
Interling said:
Currently I know some great authors who load nothing after the introduction of subscription and advertising on the DLS....

<snip>

In the short term, this works, but in the long run, there is nothing left on the DLS, which is worth settling for a DLC. ;)
Click to expand...

I really don't know why people are still angry/upset about the introduction of a subscription option as it is not compulsory. You don't have to pay for the subscription if you don't want it. It is a fee choice that, apparently, many have taken up. Why are people against free choice? If N3V went over to subscription only then it would be a different matter but so far only the conspiracy theorists are claiming that will happen.

If any creators have decided to stop contributing content because of a voluntary subscription then I would suspect that something else is at work there, the subscription is just an excuse.

I do not know what you mean by "advertising" on the DLS. I mostly access the DLS through CM and have not seen any, nor have I seen any on the Web based DLS pages. Do you mean the N3V advertising for new DLC downloads that have started to appear in TRS19 but have been appearing in TANE for some years now? This "issue" has been discussed in these forums for as long as the adverts have been appearing. The answer is simple - N3V are a business not a charity. They survive by making money and they are entitled to advertise their products even in their products. Every car I see driving around has the manufacturers logo, emblem and/or name across the front and rear. Some manufacturers will allow you to buy a car without the "advertising" but it will be considered a "special order" they will charge you extra.

Sometimes I see something interesting being advertised in the TANE/TRS19 screen. On the rare occasion, especially if it is a free DLC download, I will download it. Most times I simply ignore the advertising and get on with what is really important - playing Trainz.
 
pware said:
I really don't know why people are still angry/upset about the introduction of a subscription option as it is not compulsory. You don't have to pay for the subscription if you don't want it. It is a fee choice that, apparently, many have taken up. Why are people against free choice? If N3V went over to subscription only then it would be a different matter but so far only the conspiracy theorists are claiming that will happen.

If any creators have decided to stop contributing content because of a voluntary subscription then I would suspect that something else is at work there, the subscription is just an excuse.

I do not know what you mean by "advertising" on the DLS. I mostly access the DLS through CM and have not seen any, nor have I seen any on the Web based DLS pages. Do you mean the N3V advertising for new DLC downloads that have started to appear in TRS19 but have been appearing in TANE for some years now? This "issue" has been discussed in these forums for as long as the adverts have been appearing. The answer is simple - N3V are a business not a charity. They survive by making money and they are entitled to advertise their products even in their products. Every car I see driving around has the manufacturers logo, emblem and/or name across the front and rear. Some manufacturers will allow you to buy a car without the "advertising" but it will be considered a "special order" they will charge you extra.

Sometimes I see something interesting being advertised in the TANE/TRS19 screen. On the rare occasion, especially if it is a free DLC download, I will download it. Most times I simply ignore the advertising and get on with what is really important - playing Trainz.
Click to expand...

I totally agree with you, pware, this complaining has risen to annoying heights. But then again..some people just like to complain because they can. I haven't seen any negative post about this 'subscription thing' that I could agree with, they better spend their energy on other things that are worthwile spending on.
 
Please apologize for my english ...

I meant that there are authors who do not upload anything to the DLS after the announcement (Goldmember) because they are worried that their content created during their free time will make money. And as you can see, DLS content is also installed in DLC. No problem for me, one agrees with the upload. For me personally already 5 authors are known on which this applies. I also did not give my post as my opinion. I only wrote down what you read in private forums, Skypesession, and other platforms. And as a fan of Trainz, I feel compelled to address this.

Of course, an angry author (at least that's how it is in Germany) will simply retire and not write a big message in AuranForm. But in Germany you can see clearly how much activity after Kickstarter, and Goldmembership is left . Take only a look at Language Forum.

But then again..some people just like to complain because they can. I haven't seen any negative post about this 'subscription thing' that I could agree with, they better spend their energy on other things that are worthwile spending on.
Click to expand...
What a great argument. If one reflects the current situation, one is treated as a "complainer" without substance. Would not it be better to deal objectively with the topic and not stamp it in a simple way?

Let's go back to the original. The cause lies in a really unfortunate formulation / marketing of N3v. It is actually an easy thing to clarify, but not in a forum but by newsletter and website. The Trainzer which I know not looking into this forum. Here are known (including me) only pure Hardcorefans.

I also know many Trainzer, in Germany there is an event with 800 visitors every year. The simulation days in Koblenz. With Friends we help to work on this event... There, several hundred railway fans meet and receive lectures on TrainSimulator, TSW, and Trainz. I claim here to know some people and how the mood is right now.
 
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Interling, when you quote me, please do not change what I wrote and leave it as it is. You have, I assume it was unintended, pulled my line totally out of context, thank you.
 
I can not see where I changed a text in the quote. That you agree with pware is not really relevant for a quote. Since your post is still there I see no problem. Maybe the topic would be more helpful if you respond to my post.
PS:
That you agree with the user about your contribution is probably not relevant for a discussion and everyone can read in your own post.
 
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Interling, I do not understand why you cannot see the difference between : 'But then again..some people just like to complain because they can. I haven't seen any negative post about this 'subscription thing' that I could agree with, they better spend their energy on other things that are worthwile spending on.'(my lines) and what you made of it:'But then again..some people just like to complain because they can not have any negative post about this 'subscription thing' that i could agree with, they better spend their energy on other things that are worthwile spending on', it is bad forum etiquette to edit someone's post in a quote...this is my reaction, I have a right to my own opinion, so do you. I have made my point clear in my original post already, no need to add to that. And what is relevant or not is not for you to decide.

Have a nice day;)
 
Oh you are right. At this point, I realize I should not write posts that are not in my native language with the ipad. In fact, there was something technically wrong when creating the postings. If you make a mistake or say it wrong you should apologize for it. I would like to do that now. ;)


 
Interling said:
I meant that there are authors who do not upload anything to the DLS after the announcement (Goldmember) because they are worried that their content created during their free time will make money. And as you can see, DLS content is also installed in DLC. No problem for me, one agrees with the upload.
Click to expand...

Thank you for that clarification. The apparent belief of those authors that the content they upload to the DLS will find its way into subscription only assets does puzzle me. Firstly because, as you noted, any DLS upload can be used in DLC payware content. Secondly as far as I know, subscription assets will eventually become available to the general (non-subscription) users as the subscribers only get to see and use those assets before anyone else, unlike DLC assets.

From my point of view, the subscription is simply a payment for early access to new features and assets that will, eventually, be available to everyone else. In my opinion, if you are a heavy user of DLC then the subscription makes a lot of sense. If you are keen to see and use new Trainz features, in effect become a late stage beta tester, then the Gold subscription makes a lot of sense.

I still do not see why some people and, according to your report, some creators are so against the idea of a voluntary subscription and providing those subscribers with some "extras" before the rest of us see them. That opposition does not make any sense to me.
 
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