Why do stalls on grades still happen?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyCrIXXuC7I

America has been railroading for damn near 200 years now. You'd think the wise men on the fifth floor would have it all figured out by now.

Are RR's too cheap to provide enough servicable engines for their trains the first time?

https://www.google.com/search?clien........0i71j33i299j33i160j33i10i299.ro6ChqV8MP8

Couple of things come to mind here.

I believe they use a formula for Tonnage or weight per axle totals per consist, and the rated power of Locomotives they'll use to do the job, plus the Track Grade requirements.

And what the Locomotive Pool has to offer for Loco availability.......All things considered, nothing is 100% in performance, or potential for mechanical breakdowns, under calculated weights in Trains Etc. Etc......

And equally important, add the Human component ENGINEER, who has to know how to handle the train in constantly changing Weather, Track and Equipment changes and performance, again not 100% for various reasons.

And them you have the profit margin necessary to keep investors happy with said Railroad Co........

A very mixed bag here.....Not easy to deal with the Pressure of performance required, expected, yada yada.........
 
Back in steam days, a Pennsy Foreman of Engines was asked how they decided how many engines were needed to get a train over the westbound grade out of Altoona PA. He just shrugged his shoulders and said "We just kept adding I1s until the train made it over the hill." :D
 
https://www.google.com/search?clien........0i71j33i299j33i160j33i10i299.ro6ChqV8MP8

Couple of things come to mind here.

I believe they use a formula for Tonnage or weight per axle totals per consist, and the rated power of Locomotives they'll use to do the job, plus the Track Grade requirements.

And what the Locomotive Pool has to offer for Loco availability.......All things considered, nothing is 100% in performance, or potential for mechanical breakdowns, under calculated weights in Trains Etc. Etc......

And equally important, add the Human component ENGINEER, who has to know how to handle the train in constantly changing Weather, Track and Equipment changes and performance, again not 100% for various reasons.

And them you have the profit margin necessary to keep investors happy with said Railroad Co........

A very mixed bag here.....Not easy to deal with the Pressure of performance required, expected, yada yada.........

ELI5: They take a guess as to what they're going to need. It's an informed guess, but in the end it's a guess. There's lots of variables that can make their guess wrong.

peter
 
Track conditions need to be taken into account with train size and power availability. The skill of the crew also has an impact that can't be plugged into the equation.
 
I half to say , who hasn't been given a task to complete . That the tools you were given ,weren't up to the job you needed to do it . I had a cartoon for years , that said . YOU WANT IT WHEN . that goes directly to this point Trains stall today because it's human nature to look at a job { Train } that's ether under power , under staffed . or not ideal condition's . And say , Yea I can do this . And then be completely supersized when they fail ,,,, Sorry , Captain Obvious here . Trains stall , because they can .. LOL

Matt

PS...... there's not a job in the whole world , that a supervisor hasn't given a job to a worker . Knowing the outcome was a questionable outcome . Myself included .
 
https://www.google.com/search?clien........0i71j33i299j33i160j33i10i299.ro6ChqV8MP8

Couple of things come to mind here.

I believe they use a formula for Tonnage or weight per axle totals per consist, and the rated power of Locomotives they'll use to do the job, plus the Track Grade requirements.

And what the Locomotive Pool has to offer for Loco availability.......All things considered, nothing is 100% in performance, or potential for mechanical breakdowns, under calculated weights in Trains Etc. Etc......

And equally important, add the Human component ENGINEER, who has to know how to handle the train in constantly changing Weather, Track and Equipment changes and performance, again not 100% for various reasons.

And them you have the profit margin necessary to keep investors happy with said Railroad Co........

A very mixed bag here.....Not easy to deal with the Pressure of performance required, expected, yada yada.........

How much money do stalled freight trains actually cost consumers in America in terms of price paid on goods? Stalled/broken-down trains consume time and time is money.

Most mega-carrier trucking companies have tractors on their fleets not more than a couple of years old to enhance reliability. How long can a new d/e locomotive go in terms of

years/miles and remain reliable? They should err on the side that the weather and track is under the worst possible conditions when calculation engine numbers for trains.
 
How much money do stalled freight trains actually cost consumers in America in terms of price paid on goods?
A lot less than overpowering every train.

They should err on the side that the weather and track is under the worst possible conditions when calculation engine numbers for trains.
And that is why they are running a railroad and you are not ;-)
Just to follow your logic:
Do you always leave the house with your North Pole survival gear, food and water for at least a month, your swimsuit, full rain gear, etc?
Answer: No.
... Well... That is me assuming you are not the nutcase on the block who does that.
Why not?
Because even though all those would be needed for the "worst possible conditions", you know that the chances are very slim and even if they happen you simply get a little wet / cold / hot / etc and are maybe a few minutes later at your destination. It is all not worth the trouble of carrying two suitcases of extra gear "just in case".

Let's staff this post with some actual numbers just in case you really need those for understanding:
Lookup the CN "Winter plan 2018/2019", page 13 to be specific.
You will find an overview that (among other things) states that under certain winter conditions intermodal trains with distributed power are only allowed to be 8500ft long while under "normal" (or at least less extreme) conditions they are allowed to be up to 14000ft long. That is a 39% difference.
Following your logic, they should always be 8500ft long, requiring almost double the amount of engines to get your goods from point A to point B. You are likely not willing to pay for that overkill.
 
Let's also take into account the season and the area. In the autmn (fall) we have leaves on the tracks. The leaves break traction and cause trains to slip and slide moreso than wet rails. Leaves are a big problem, for example, for Metro North on their Danbury, CT line due to the grades.

Outside of so many other issues, there's also equipment breakdowns. We've seen a stalled locomotive in tow behind the rest of the running locomotives. This is usually the one with all the hatch doors open, but no noise coming from it. Just think if a running train loses its motivepower enroute. This can cause what would be an easy climb up a grade into a chore because the engine that's offline is not only not providing any power, but it's also adding to the weight of the train.

Then there are curves and other things which can cause additional problems as they bind the wheels. In some locations there are track greasing machines that lubricate the flanges so that the trains don't bind to the track. If the greaser has failed or hasn't applied enough lubricant to the tracks, the train can bind up on the curve it's going too slow. This slow down could be at a critical point on a grade that causes the train to stall.

and so on...
 
I am Hungarian and my Great Grandparents had settled in Berwick, PA back before the turn of the 20th century aka before 1900:
So I ask: How Many Hungarians does it take to push a train up that hill? All of us damnit..Push.....
 
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