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Thread: TS12 EDR Crashes, CM freezes PC, lessons learned, and more...

  1. #1
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    Default TS12 EDR Crashes, CM freezes PC, lessons learned, and more...

    First the backstory: After a very long hiatus (almost 5 years), I cracked open TS12 again with a fresh 1st class ticket - knowing I'd have content to update before anything happened. First thing I'm greeted by is the dreaded mandatory "updating database".... the EDR. First two times attempting to run, it made it all the way to "checking for faulty assets", and froze my PC indefinitely - of note here was there were over 475,000 assets to check.... I'm a hoarder. Third time through after thinking multi-tasking (Solitaire, YouTube, etc) might have been at fault, I ran it with Task Manager open and watched resources which, I already knew, were plenty. This time it only counted 265,000 assets and froze at the same spot. Hmmm... Went to "My Computer" and only had 12GB of free space on my TS12 partition, so I opened Easus Partition manager and went to work, freeing up some room to expand the partition so now I have 80GB free and a total of 227GB for TS12. Fourth attempt yielded better results, update finished, Content Mangler opened....but.... When I go to sort assets with the filters on the left sidebar - it freezes the PC again - indefinitely until I hard reset. What gives? Anybody have a better clue than I do? PC Specs: Asus M5a97 mobo, AMD FX8350 black edition (liquid cooled), 16GB Patriot Viper DDR3 RAM, XFX Radeon 6870 GPU running Win7 Ultimate x64 (stock speed, voltage, and timings, no OC)
    A ball has to hit the floor before it can bounce back.

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    Solved my own issue - after checking windows event viewer and nothing but the hard resets showing, I decided to reinstall. When I went to move the local folder, it wouldn't - so I tried to compress it into RAR and found some corrupt files. Not sure how that happened, but there's a brand new partition on another drive with a fresh install... now if I could figure out how to cleanly get my content back...... Not sure if "import content" will try to pick up the corrupt files or not.
    A ball has to hit the floor before it can bounce back.

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    The freeze ups can be caused by the hardware its self, meaning the drive has a bad spot on it which has corrupted the data and the program finally work its way through that only to hit it again when you attempted to read back the data.

    In TS12 beware and be aware of the validation which will run and run for hours if you've done a DBR. This can and will freeze things up, making the program unresponsive until it finishes.

    To check if this is running, at the TS12 Launcher click on settings and the Developer tab. Check the box to show console processes.

    What this will do is bring up a couple of task-windows (console prompts - they look like DOS prompts, but have no interaction and are for display only). In there you will will a bunch of stuff including validating.... followed by some number.

    With 475,000 assets, which is what the DLS has actually and you probably have 150K plus installed because it displays the full number, this process can take a very, very long time. I think the last time I ran TS12 fulltime, and ran into this, the validation took 14-hours if not longer, which worked out to be about 45-seconds per asset.

    So before you go about reinstalling, and going through that mess, start up TS12 and check that the validation isn't running first. If it is running, let it finish and check things out.

    But to answer your last question, you are in kind of a pickle if there is some corrupted data. You can import, and hope that the new copy is "smart" enough to balk and skip over the bad stuff, but you'll never know unless you try. It maybe that if there is corruption, the files will be imported anyway and you can find them in Content Manager when you check your assets.

    Speaking of Content Manager...

    Whenever you run a DBR, and in particular an EDR, it is recommended you check for faulty assets afterwards. In many cases, usually 99.9999% of the time, there will be a gazillion errors listed. Highlighting the assets, right-clicking and choosing view errors and warnings will clear up the false positives that always occur after the repair process. With that done, if there are any faulty assets, you can then replace or repair those without a problem.
    John
    Trainz User Since: 12-2003
    Trainz User ID: 124863
    TS12 Build: 61388
    T:ANE Build: 90955

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    Hey John, glad to see you're still around! I am definitely familiar with the false positives, normal routine for those of us that have been "fixing" trainz more than running it! I just had never seen this before - it quite literally won't do anything but a database update with any launcher choice except the options button, then froze the whole system requiring a hard reset, so I never had a chance to actually run it. As it is right now, I've installed and fully updated a second install to another drive, and everything is good... so far. The old install is completely intact and I'll play with it more in the next day or two, or at least until I start the new greuling hours at the new job. I'd sure hate to lose routes I had made and spent 300+ hours on but never saved to cdp, but then again - haven't seen em in about 5 years now so....
    A ball has to hit the floor before it can bounce back.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gearhead2578 View Post
    Hey John, glad to see you're still around! I am definitely familiar with the false positives, normal routine for those of us that have been "fixing" trainz more than running it! I just had never seen this before - it quite literally won't do anything but a database update with any launcher choice except the options button, then froze the whole system requiring a hard reset, so I never had a chance to actually run it. As it is right now, I've installed and fully updated a second install to another drive, and everything is good... so far. The old install is completely intact and I'll play with it more in the next day or two, or at least until I start the new greuling hours at the new job. I'd sure hate to lose routes I had made and spent 300+ hours on but never saved to cdp, but then again - haven't seen em in about 5 years now so....

    Yup still kicking around here. Yeah you do have some experience with this stuff, but it's worth mentioning the known in case others come across the same situation. You know how that goes.

    From what you've described it's sadly something corrupted.

    You can try running a repair from a command prompt. Go to the old install folder and type in Trainzutil -repairdatabase or something like that. I think you can hit -help to bring up the commands. What this will do is invoke the repair outside of the GUI and nothing will appear, but the command prompt will look like it's hung. Then when it finishes, there will be a message about what quantity of items fixed and warnings, etc. like you get in the GUI.

    Hopefully with this, you can then bring up CM and export your content even if you haven't seen it in five years, you can always use parts of it in new routes. I did that with my ca. January 2004 route. I opened it and had a good laugh before I took the parts I liked from the archive.
    John
    Trainz User Since: 12-2003
    Trainz User ID: 124863
    TS12 Build: 61388
    T:ANE Build: 90955

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    I will try that next, didn't even know you could go about it that way. Today's adventure was a wiping of a partition, clean install, and after starting and running in each version on the way up with NO extra content (started both CM and driver), it turns out it's CM3.7 that's the culprit for whatever reason. I ran through two installs (the old one is still safe in bed in its original partition untouched), first updating fully, then stopping after SP1 without the hotfix - noticed something I missed there. The patcher said kuid -3:11060 was damaged. Interesting. Either way in that last install I can open and run driver no problem, but CM still breaks the PC completely requiring a hard reset. Maybe this time I re-download the install files instead of using the ones that have been in here since I bought it (2011?) More as it develops, and of course, thanks for the help!

    Edit - updated win7 for the first time since 2016 while I was at it. Thought that might help. It didn't.
    A ball has to hit the floor before it can bounce back.

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    Of course Shane Turner had the tutorial on tap Running that now. For anybody else that needs it, it's here - http://trainz.shaneturner.co.uk/tuto...atabase-repair
    A ball has to hit the floor before it can bounce back.

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    J:\>"Program Files (x86)/N3V Games/TS12 SP1/Bin/Trainzutil.exe" repairdatabase
    Repairing asset database (this may take some time)
    ; <NULL> : Performing database repair
    ; <kuid2:7592:10215:3> : <kuid2:7592:10215:3> has been found at a new location.
    OK (0 Errors, 0 Warnings) - welp. In case I have to reset, I'll make another post with the results. THis is the original install.
    A ball has to hit the floor before it can bounce back.

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    Opening CM still freezes the system. Just as an afterthought, I also tried out my TS10 install. Same deal. It's Windows or hardware as I feared. I tend to keep the system defragged, registry cleaned, etc. Have a paid version of Malwarebytes as well so pretty sure there's no funky critters hiding in there. Not sure if the newer ram or cpu lack some instruction sets I needed or what. The last config it actually ran on was older Patriot DDR3 (2GB x 4), same mobo, and an AMD Phenom II x4 975 black edition. Pretty defeated, can't afford to change any hardware. Might try installing Windows on a spare 1TB HDD I have here, leaving the old system drive out but with reg and desktop (etc etc) backed up on another drive (I have 4 physical drives). That's a big trigger to pull. We shall see.....
    A ball has to hit the floor before it can bounce back.

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    Not to say you need to, but you might try moving to Windows 10, as it works bit more responsive, and will be continue to receive support when that is stopped in January of next year for Windows 7. I dropped use of TS12, as it did do that fun lockdown trying to validate, in a very mundane and slow process. Now I'm not trying to sell you on this second bit, but from experience, if you don't have T:ANE or the one that came after (TMR2017) then skip to TRS19, and have even better response and no lockdowns.

    Make train simulators great again #MTSGA obiter dictum

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    Thought about that, but don't trust or like Win10 for a lot of reasons. Can't afford it or any more trainz versions either for that matter - at least not for a good while. Been with this OS for a very long time, and at least in my thinking, if it worked before there's no reason it shouldn't now. Here's what I did and how it came out. First tried a soft reinstall ("upgrade") from a Win7 Ultimate SP1 OEM disk I have, and found when it tried to move my files and settings etc back that some of my orig win7 install was corrupt. THAT answered a lot of questions. SO, I (already having backed up all user info and reg) wiped C and reinstalled clean with updates and installed directx9. Haven't touched the backed up info in case something in there is no good. wiped the newer TS12 partition I made the other day, and installed / patched TS12 clean with no added content. SURE ENOUGH - when I got to SP1 (hotfix 3) and tried to open Content Mangler 3.7 (with or without a "database update"), same story. This might be the end of it for me. Can't figure why it worked before for years and now this.
    A ball has to hit the floor before it can bounce back.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gearhead2578 View Post
    Thought about that, but don't trust or like Win10 for a lot of reasons. Can't afford it or any more trainz versions either for that matter - at least not for a good while. Been with this OS for a very long time, and at least in my thinking, if it worked before there's no reason it shouldn't now. Here's what I did and how it came out. First tried a soft reinstall ("upgrade") from a Win7 Ultimate SP1 OEM disk I have, and found when it tried to move my files and settings etc back that some of my orig win7 install was corrupt. THAT answered a lot of questions. SO, I (already having backed up all user info and reg) wiped C and reinstalled clean with updates and installed directx9. Haven't touched the backed up info in case something in there is no good. wiped the newer TS12 partition I made the other day, and installed / patched TS12 clean with no added content. SURE ENOUGH - when I got to SP1 (hotfix 3) and tried to open Content Mangler 3.7 (with or without a "database update"), same story. This might be the end of it for me. Can't figure why it worked before for years and now this.

    Don't give up yet! We don't go down that easy around here!

    Have you tried:

    1) Turning off your antivirus while installing?
    2) Running setup as Administrator?
    3) Excluding the TS12 folders, from real-time antivirus scanning?
    4) Running the program as Administrator, which is required and recommended by N3V as well?

    I understand your reasons for staying with Windows 7, but at some time you will need to upgrade if not for the data security reasons because the OS will be out of compliance, but also because of ongoing system driver support. As manufacturers move ahead and away from Windows 7, they will no longer support the hardware with that operating system. Should you need to install a new driver due to a corrupted saved download or faulty driver disk, you'll end up SOL as they say. What's occurring even now is although some manufacturers are still offering Windows 7 drivers, they are not optimized well for the hardware, and there is a substantial performance hit.

    Windows 10 is not as bad as you think, and if you go about it the right way it runs well and is a nice upgrade with nice gaming system support unlike Windows 7 which never had fully.
    John
    Trainz User Since: 12-2003
    Trainz User ID: 124863
    TS12 Build: 61388
    T:ANE Build: 90955

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    All of the above - that's why I posted here. You and I both know those are trainz pre-reqs for any install. The only reason I have to hold on at this point is the HUNDREDS of hours into fixing faulty content, creating some, etc etc. It's got to be something up with this PC. My last ditch is going to be to try an install on my son's rig. He's got all my hand-me-downs from this one. It ran great before on that gear.
    A ball has to hit the floor before it can bounce back.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gearhead2578 View Post
    All of the above - that's why I posted here. You and I both know those are trainz pre-reqs for any install. The only reason I have to hold on at this point is the HUNDREDS of hours into fixing faulty content, creating some, etc etc. It's got to be something up with this PC. My last ditch is going to be to try an install on my son's rig. He's got all my hand-me-downs from this one. It ran great before on that gear.
    Yup the prerequisites are difficult not to forget.

    I agree this has to be something with the hardware causing this. Try it on your son's PC and see if it works. If it does then you know.

    One last thing...

    Have you by chance checked the RAM?

    I've had quirky issues caused by faulty memory ranging from failed installs, random program crashes, and other unexplained failures that had no rhyme or reason to occur. Finally just for kicks, I ran memtest86 and it found a bad DIMM. I replaced the DIMM under warranty and everything was fine after that.
    John
    Trainz User Since: 12-2003
    Trainz User ID: 124863
    TS12 Build: 61388
    T:ANE Build: 90955

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    Life got in the way for a couple of days - starting a new job at Volvo Truck I had actually thought of that early on and ram memtest with perfect results. The ram is only a month or so old so of course it was suspect. Still need to install on the boy's PC. Have a perfect chance at that today. This is getting to be like a murder mystery
    A ball has to hit the floor before it can bounce back.

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