Dark borders on non-PBR textures

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pepperref

Member
I've searched the TRS19 thread and couldn't find any mention of this behavior. When I place non-PBR texture in TRS19, half of the texture has dark borders. As you can see from the attached screenshot, there are no other textures nearby to interact with. Is this just a consequence of using non-PBR textures or is it something that can be fixed? Thanks in advance for any information.

Hank

Dark-borders-appear-at-lower-left-and-right-of-non-PBR-textures..jpg
 
I am not seeing that at all. I have tried several similar looking non-PBR textures at different scale settings and I cannot see any dark borders and I certainly cannot see the same straight edges as shown in your screenshot.

Are you seeing this issue on all non-PBR textures? What is the kuid of the texture shown in your screenshot?
 
... or that the "texture" is floating above the surface. To me it looks more like an object, such as a surface, with some opacity than a texture.
 
I've just checked a route that I imported from TANE.

Some non pbr textures change their opacity when rotating your point of view!

My-Trainz-Screenshot-Image.jpg




My-Trainz-Screenshot-Image.jpg

The texture above is di-0 A15

The bare grid is where a texture was not inmported because it is 'unknown', but TANE knows it !
 
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Ambient occlusion is also evident in the first image pepperref supplied above - an artifact inclusion of the new 'High' or 'Ultra' Post Processing settings applied by TRS19. (Note the faint grey haze 'halo' above and around the texture, but not below it).
There have been many changes to PP mandated by N3V in order to give more life to parallax and PBR texture rendering in routes.
Shadows and lighting direction would account for the darker borders.
Intrigued by that first image as pware is - seems like a mask has been applied to achieve the straight edges. (Would like to be able to achieve this with some of my own texture painting!)
 
I noticed that the non-PBR texture actually lowers the ground below it, resulting in a vertical gap. When the ground is raised, the texture moves up with it to maintain the height gap. I placed a PBR texture next to it that clearly shows the non-PBR floating over the PBR texture. It happens with at least half a dozen non-PBR textures I tried. The first texture was Soil Sand 2. The texture used in screenshot is Meadow - Soil & Grass and FX PBR Dirt 01. Wondering why no one else sees this.
Non-PBR-next-to-PBR-texture.jpg

view_media_post
 
First thing to note is that the Grid itself is a PBR texture these days and N3V cautions that there will be a Z-height difference when attempting to blend new PBR objects with non PBR textures.
 
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Maybe the type of Non PBR texture used maxes a difference? (I am no expert)
(note I am using the alternative lighter coloured PBR grid)

In my shot below are two textures.
One is a normal texture with bump mapping and one is a PBR texture they seem to blend wonderfully on my first TRS19 route.
Can you tell which is which ?

I have narrowed my future texture usage down to those made by rudefx, they all start their names with FX ....

My-Trainz-Screenshot-Image.jpg
 
Just to clarify, as you can see from my original post, there is no attempt to blend textures. When I place a non-PBR texture in TRS19, it gets raised with dark sharp edges on two sides.

If this is the way of the future, it makes many quality textures unusable. I must say this is disappointing as many of the textures I used in the past have no PBR equivalents.

I also noticed it on the Niddertalbahn TRS19. Some of the fields near the track have the same dark borders.
 
pepperref said:
I noticed that the non-PBR texture actually lowers the ground below it, resulting in a vertical gap. When the ground is raised, the texture moves up with it to maintain the height gap. I placed a PBR texture next to it that clearly shows the non-PBR floating over the PBR texture. It happens with at least half a dozen non-PBR textures I tried. The first texture was Soil Sand 2. The texture used in screenshot is Meadow - Soil & Grass and FX PBR Dirt 01. Wondering why no one else sees this.
Non-PBR-next-to-PBR-texture.jpg

view_media_post
Click to expand...


I just tested those textures on a baseboard and had no problem. No tricks or special blending methods, just straight dabs of texture.

In my routes I change the base dark PBR grid to the lighter PBR grid (2.0) and have the board set to 5m and not 10m, maybe try that out and see if it makes a diference.
If not then you could report it to N3V.


My-Trainz-Screenshot-Image.jpg
 
Fascinating observation, euromodeller.
Going to experiment with Grid 2.0 to see whether I can mix both types of grid on the same (large) route to allow accommodation of better texture blending in places where PBR and non-PBR textures meet.
Will see if I can use the bulk asset replacement tool to change one or two areas of grid to the 2nd type.
 
Thanks for the idea euromodeller. I tried your suggestion, but sadly, it did not work. I laid down the Grid 2.0 texture, then laid down a section of the standard Grid texture for reference. I laid down FX PBR Dirt 01. Then laid down non-PBR Soil Sand 2. I still get the dark sharp edges and the ground below the non-PBR texture has been lowered.
 
That's really odd.

I am using my spare PC to test TRS19, it's got a lowly i3 3240 CPU and a GTX 1050 Ti 4gb GPU and 16gb of RAM.
I thought that I might be the one suffering rendering problems but, TRS19 is really kind to my setup.

What setup do you have?

Some of the routes I have brought from TANE to TRS19 have faulty textures now, but nothing like what you have shown me, the faulty ones for me change visibly when I rotate the point of view.
I've cleared every bit of old texture off my routes and am repainting with FX, and decent PBR textures (there are some awfull ones).
So far so good.

I think you need to send a bug report in to N3V.

Here's a shot with mixed textures, the rippled sand underwater is non PBR, the rest are, no problems occur.

My-Trainz-Screenshot-Image.jpg
 
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pepperref said:
Just to clarify, as you can see from my original post, there is no attempt to blend textures. When I place a non-PBR texture in TRS19, it gets raised with dark sharp edges on two sides.

If this is the way of the future, it makes many quality textures unusable. I must say this is disappointing as many of the textures I used in the past have no PBR equivalents.

I also noticed it on the Niddertalbahn TRS19. Some of the fields near the track have the same dark borders.
Click to expand...

Maybe it's texture specific and these need to be looked at in detail for such things as alpha-blending and normal-maps, or lack thereof. There are some really, really old textures kicking around that are still in use, and are really, really low resolution and don't work well.

If you could post the Kuid of your texture in question, we can take a look at it.

It may very well be a bug, but this is the only way to narrow it down to an internal game-engine issue and not the asset its self.
 
Seems to me having just spent half an hour playing with PBR textures that some have gone over the top on the height mapping parallax or whatever it's called and when you change the viewing position the textures dramatically change shape, pretty sure that's not how it's supposed to work, If I overlay some of the IMO to high pbr stuff over a non PBR texture you get a transparent overlay of the original texture at the edge. Personally I think normal mapped non pbr textures are looking better in TRS19 than in TANE, leastwise mine do and better than some of this twitching / transparency / stuff. Not seen any black edges yet though.

There's one texture I tried that buried a Wire fence, there is no way a texture should raise the height by 3 or 4 scale feet!


Check out Jankvis's PBR ground textures he has just uploaded, they don't do any of this mass distortion and work with non PBR textures.
 
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Thanks Malc for doing some testing.

I have just changed the Shader Quality setting from Standard to Ultra, opened the WIP route and got hideous changes and patchy buried track on curves, the PBR texture that I had just laid had raised itself upwards!
Did a second restart of game, no change.
I changed setting back to Standard, did the game restart and all was hunkey-dorey again.
The scene below is a mixture of non PBR and PBR textures.

Weren't members saying in ER version that track was getting buried by textures?

This is on my i3/GTX1050ti rig so I know to avoid Ultra settings (I had to try didn't I? ) :eek:

BTW nice rocks :)

My-Trainz-Screenshot-Image.jpg



Edited to add.. Just did a trial on my test board in Ultra setting the ground dips down under non PBR textures, when you paint over the non PBR with the PBR, the ground levels out again.

So, if I make a route on Standard settings and upload it to DLS, if a member downloads the route and he uses Ultra settings what will he see ?????
 
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PBR textures are going to be a problem if used on a route created without Ultra shaders and they will be. If loaded into a setup with Ultra shaders enabled and PBR buries things! That is not good and stand by for the complaints!
 
clam1952 said:
PBR textures are going to be a problem if used on a route created without Ultra shaders and they will be. If loaded into a setup with Ultra shaders enabled and PBR buries things! That is not good and stand by for the complaints!
Click to expand...

Yup and I'll join you.

This was one of the things I pointed out early on and was told it's how it works so put up and shut up in so many "nice" words. The implementation I think is done incorrectly, or perhaps is something that's forced to work in an environment where it doesn't work well. The devs need to revisit this, along with the Turf-FX and Clutter-FX interface, sooner than later because in both cases these things fall down pretty hard and don't represent the high-quality that they are promoting.
 
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