Getting up long steep grades (Freight Delivery / Cornish...)

Z

zo0ok

New member
I am absolutely new to Trainz, just got TRS 2019.

On Cornish Mainline, Session: Freight Delivery, I get stuck after 7 miles.
The grade is 2%, I have 23 wagons, no wheelslip and 180PSI in the boiler, 100% coal, blowers on... It slowly goes down to 0mph, and from there slowly downhill again.

In the beginning of the session I am told to be careful not running into the passenger train ahead, but I can't possibly keep up with it.

What am I missing?​
 
This was previously discussed, and 2995valliant, the local UK steam spec expert, says the loco doesn't work in cab driving nice because it's too heavy and has a rubbish spec.
 
Thank you for your quick reply!

I clearly need to learn to search the forum. I would much appreciate a link to the thread I didn't find.
 
Possibly you could swap in a non-rubbish enginespec, one that works ... In the meantime, try adding more AI Brake, or added DPU loco units, midtrain, and tail end
 
zo0ok,
I had the same problem, and couldn't coax that engine over the hills after the 4 mile mark.

I swapped out the engine with an 0-6-0 switcher that the Union Pacific had lent the railroad. I was at 40 mph and still accelerating heading up the long hill, way past the 4 mile mark. Cut-off and throttle were only at around 30% each. If I'd kept on at that rate, I would have caught the passenger train and passed them, muhahahaha. :D

It's too bad the weight and specs are not right for the original engine. I kind of liked it, but you can't run the session successfully in Cab. I had to use DCC [shudders at the thought :hehe:] on the hills to get over them.
Other than that, the session and the route are fantastic.

Heinrich505
 
How does anybody get an engine's weight to be 33 tons more than it should be? I've had a feeling for a while with some of the steam engines on the DLS that their creators just took a wild guess when it came to setting out the specs in the config file.
 
It's actually really difficult to find out the correct mass for a steam loco as almost all published figures are "weight in working order" (ie including the all the coal and water in the tanks and boiler) however Trainz needs the empty weight. An educate guess on the amount to subtract from the empty weight is normally the best I manage.

Making steam especs is one of the hardest things to do in Trainz and there are only a few creators who have properly mastered it. For the session in question you cuold try swapping the spec at session level in the loco's properties dialogue with one by 2995valliant. Something like the LBSCR K class or GWR 56xx would probably not be far off.
 
I loaded my saved session and I actually did make it 7 miles (started doubting when the rest of you wrote 4). The grade is 2.04%, and now when I just loaded the session I make steady progress uphill at 2mph. However, in a mile the grade is over 2.5% (or something) and I doubt I can pass that.

The weight of the engine... if it is 30tons extra that should be the equivalent of just one or two wagons, but give a lot extra traction (less wheel slip). So I find that a somewhat a strange problem. It would be worse if it was too light. Of course, on the margin 1-2 wagons or 30tons could ruin the day. But the intention of the session was to look out for red signals not running into the passenger service ahead. Not barely making it up the mainline at all.

However, I find it more troubling that the sessions included are not play tested once?

But what I read is that Trainz is not just about driving and I am most welcome to replace the engine and experiment. That's a little challenge but a good thing for a new player like me to learn.

Any words on the status of double headed trains an CAB-mode?
 
edh6 said:
It's actually really difficult to find out the correct mass for a steam loco as almost all published figures are "weight in working order" (ie including the all the coal and water in the tanks and boiler) however Trainz needs the empty weight. An educate guess on the amount to subtract from the empty weight is normally the best I manage.

Making steam especs is one of the hardest things to do in Trainz and there are only a few creators who have properly mastered it. For the session in question you cuold try swapping the spec at session level in the loco's properties dialogue with one by 2995valliant. Something like the LBSCR K class or GWR 56xx would probably not be far off.
Click to expand...

Yes I must agree Ed. I'm presently sorting out an engine spec for a tram engine and it's involving a lot of trial and error, but I do seem to be making progress. Converting old imperial measurements over to what Trainz uses certainly doesn't make it any easier. How the masters of the craft do it so well I don't know.
 
There are some very un-prototypical dinky little locos that have an absolutely ludicrously powerful enginespec that can drag a 18,000 ton train up a 10% grade ... and there are some huge locos that have an enginespec made out of poo
 
Oh yes I've struck those, - impossibly powerful little engines that could. As someone who mostly models minor railways and branchlines I very swiftly operate on such miniature titans to bring them back to a workable state so that they can be driven in a realistic and properly satisfying manner.
 
edh6,
I took your suggestion and swapped out the default for the engine with the GWR56xx specs and saved the session under a different name.

It made a big difference. The session wasn't a pushover by any means, but I was actually driving the engine, manipulating the cutoff and throttle, and injecting water where needed. It's always been a bit of artwork to drive steam engines well. I was taxed to keep the consist going and not end up stalling on the hills. But, I never felt that I was out of control or things were hopeless, like I did with the original specs where the engine just quit when it felt like it.

Nice suggestion. Thanks. It made the session enjoyable and I was able to successfully finish it.

Heinrich505
 
I have some more thoughts on this session...

I replaced the orginal locomotive with a 4200 tank locomotive.
The replacement and saving a new scenario was a quite easy thing to do!
The 4200 performed very well and I arrived in Camborne after about 40 min.

But
1) The AI-trains (Paul and friends) never started driving. As I passed them, they were just standing still. Did I fail to update or activate anything after replacing my locomotive?
2) I arrived in Camborne, stopping exactly at the stop sign, but the session never ends. It is like there is something else I need to do (like getting my train off the main line), but I get no new instructions. Again, did I fail to update or activate anything when I replaced my locomotive?
3) The orginal locomotive is a 2MT. How is that supposed to pull 23 wagons up 2%+ grades? I think it makes complete sense that it got stuck, and I am surpised it was assigned such a heavy task in the first place.
 
zo0ok,
I think there is a problem with the AI trains. I kept getting messages that they were stuck and awaiting instructions during the original session. I got the same stuck messages in my altered session, so don't think you messed anything up. The problem already exists within the original session. I did see many trains passing me though, so some of them are working right.

There is one more thing that you are supposed to do for the session. I didn't notice it at first. Once you've backed the consist onto the siding track, the end marker disappears. But, if you swing around to the front of the train, you will see an uncouple command there. You will need to uncouple the train from your tender. Once I did that, the session ended and I was given the end screen with the stars and points markers asking if I wanted to end or replay.

It's a fun session if one can get the engine to pull the cars right.

Heinrich505
 
As I mentioned in the other thread - the train is too heavy for an Ivatt Class 2 which is not, repeat not, a powerful engine. For comparison the 56xx is a class 5. I haven't had time to check, but if the track layout is anything to go by, then the gradients on the Cornwall main line are probably not correct either - I know they aren't even close on the Falmouth branch.

I've been quiet for a few months dealing with the real world, but before that I had come up with a new set of boiler values to avoid the dreaded boiler pressure drop if the loco was standing for even a short length of time such as a station stop. I have here a nearly tested enginespec for the 2MT which I hope to be able to release by the new year.

Maybe one day N3V will turn their focus on to adding some more features to the underlying physics.
 
What I'm wondering though is what an Ivatt Class 2 is doing on the Cornish mainline in the 1930s. Same for King Edward in BR livery and with a train of BR coaches.
 
KotangaGirl said:
What I'm wondering though is what an Ivatt Class 2 is doing on the Cornish mainline in the 1930s. Same for King Edward in BR livery and with a train of BR coaches.
Click to expand...

Yes I was wondering about that Ivatt, obviously it's an alternative reality where LMS and GWR merged? don't think they were even made until the 1940s anyway. Just checked was 1946.

The Kings, must have been airlifted to avoid the weight restriction over the Tamar.
 
Clam and KotangaGirl,
I find your information and discussion very interesting. As I am pretty much completely unfamiliar with train history in England, I am learning all sorts of new things by listening to the two of you.

So, essentially, seeing an Ivatt on this route at this time would be somewhat equivalent to seeing a Union Pacific FEF blasting down the Pennsylvania Rail Road lines between Washington DC and Philadelphia in the early 30's, blowing by PRR K4s. The Ivatt wouldn't have even been built for the time frame of this route, I take it. I join you both in wondering why it was chosen for the session, and I'd ask what engine would correctly be substituted in its place for this particular task?

Always enjoying a challenge, I tried to get the Ivatt through the route again with original specs. Made it to just past the 7 mile mark, and only had that last really long hill, but the little guy just couldn't make it up the hill. I had enough steam in the steam chest and the boiler, but not enough momentum, coming off the 15mph speed limit just before heading up the hill.

Heinrich505
 
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