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Thread: Getting up long steep grades (Freight Delivery / Cornish...)

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heinrich505 View Post
    Bill69,
    Will the new e-spec you've submitted for the Ivatt obsolete the current version in this session or will we have to delete the one in the current session and add the updated version in an edited session?

    I'm still game for the challenge. I'd like to get that Ivatt through the session successfully.

    Thanks for your adjustments on the Ivatt. It is appreciated.

    Heinrich505

    Clam's reply above is correct. you will have to edit the config.txt file for the loco and replace the original e-spec kuid with the new e-spec kuid, then submit the edits. When that is done start Trainz and edit the session, remove the existing Ivatt loco and replace it with the edited one.

    Cheers,
    Bill69

    edit: The new e-spec is now in the "your content" area, report says "available soon currently unlisted"

    Bill69
    Last edited by Bill69; December 26th, 2018 at 05:58 PM.
    If you are going to try cross-country skiing,
    Start with a small country.



  2. #32
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    I don't have TRS19 so I'm not sure what the grades and tonnages are, however I've been reading this thread and when I looked at the data Bill posted it shows the loco is 17,000lbf at 80 or 85% boiler pressure (160-170 PSI) I can only assume the correct tonnages are 260-280 tonnes on 1in50, 200-210 tonnes on a 1in40 and 120-140 tonnes on a 1in30.

    In Australia we have a few locomotives that have 17,000lbf and the tonnages above is what those are rated, so I'd say a British locomotive should handle the same tonnages, however they vary based on it's Adhesion or weight on the driving wheels, if the loco is over those tonnages then that's why you are stalling, if it's under those tonnages the it's a defective physic, the locomotive being over weight as said in other posts should actually help with Adhesion and pull more.

    Cheers.

  3. #33
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    Clam and Bill69,
    Thanks for the info. I'll watch for the new e-spec.

    Heinrich505

  4. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Azervich View Post
    I don't have TRS19 so I'm not sure what the grades and tonnages are, however I've been reading this thread and when I looked at the data Bill posted it shows the loco is 17,000lbf at 80 or 85% boiler pressure (160-170 PSI) I can only assume the correct tonnages are 260-280 tonnes on 1in50, 200-210 tonnes on a 1in40 and 120-140 tonnes on a 1in30.

    In Australia we have a few locomotives that have 17,000lbf and the tonnages above is what those are rated, so I'd say a British locomotive should handle the same tonnages, however they vary based on it's Adhesion or weight on the driving wheels, if the loco is over those tonnages then that's why you are stalling, if it's under those tonnages the it's a defective physic, the locomotive being over weight as said in other posts should actually help with Adhesion and pull more.

    Cheers.
    From a BR Western region working timetable appendix of 1960, the maximum permitted load for a 4500 class prairie (TE 21250lb, power class 4, so a significantly larger and more powerful loco than the Ivatt 2) on a 1 in 50 is only 120tons - so significantly less than Australian loadings - and only 90 tons on a 1 in 40.

    I suspect the difference is on loading gauge and therefore boiler size/ output. Another source quotes the maximum load from Boscarne Junction to Bodmin (which has a ruling gradient of 1 in 40) as 200 tons - but it's only a short (3 mile) climb so you can mortgage the boiler.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2995Valliant View Post
    From a BR Western region working timetable appendix of 1960, the maximum permitted load for a 4500 class prairie (TE 21250lb, power class 4, so a significantly larger and more powerful loco than the Ivatt 2) on a 1 in 50 is only 120tons - so significantly less than Australian loadings - and only 90 tons on a 1 in 40.

    I suspect the difference is on loading gauge and therefore boiler size/ output. Another source quotes the maximum load from Boscarne Junction to Bodmin (which has a ruling gradient of 1 in 40) as 200 tons - but it's only a short (3 mile) climb so you can mortgage the boiler.
    Hmm weight in tow on that session is 213 tons + over weight loco + over weight tender + the original bad espec explains a lot!
    Malc


  6. #36

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    I've just uploaded a spec for the Ivatt Class 2 tender engines: <kuid2:248163:1541:14> Ivatt 2MT enginespec TS12 SP1

    I'm not sure when it will be available, but I'm away for a few days now. Any feedback, good or bad, welcome.

    For anyone willing/able to alter the loco and tender config files, set the loco mass to 45316, and the tender mass to 20043. (Trainz adds the mass of the water/coal in both parts as part of the physics calculations).
    Last edited by 2995Valliant; December 27th, 2018 at 02:54 PM.

  7. #37
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    I actually found the tender is not overweight. In the original that I have the tender mass is 37700 Kg.
    According to the specs posted above the tender weight is 37.15 tons converting this to Kg gives 37746Kg.

    Cheers,
    Bill69.
    If you are going to try cross-country skiing,
    Start with a small country.



  8. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill69 View Post
    I actually found the tender is not overweight. In the original that I have the tender mass is 37700 Kg.
    According to the specs posted above the tender weight is 37.15 tons converting this to Kg gives 37746Kg.

    Cheers,
    Bill69.

    The weight of the coal and water carried by the tender is calculated separately by Trainz (just like any goods vehicle) and added to the tare weight of the tender according to how much water/coal is on board at the time - ie the tender gets lighter as the journey goes on. If it's a tank engine the net weight of whatever water is in the tanks and coal in the bunker is added to the mass specified in the config.

    The same applies for the volume of water in the boiler which is why my loco mass figure has come out a bit lighter than yours.

    Set up a light engine consist, go into driver, right click/properties on the loco and look at the weight in tow and you'll see what I mean.


    Best regards,
    Anthony

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2995Valliant View Post
    I've just uploaded a spec for the Ivatt Class 2 tender engines: <kuid2:248163:1541:14> Ivatt 2MT enginespec TS12 SP1

    I'm not sure when it will be available, but I'm away for a few days now. Any feedback, good or bad, welcome.

    For anyone willing/able to alter the loco and tender config files, set the loco mass to 45316, and the tender mass to 20043. (Trainz adds the mass of the water/coal in both parts as part of the physics calculations).
    So on these figures the loco with a dry boiler weighs 44.6 tons and the tender is under 20 tons? Conversion gives 19.73tons, I would estimate the bogeys and frames at about 5 to 5.5 tons so that makes a very light tender.

    Bill69
    Last edited by Bill69; December 27th, 2018 at 04:18 PM.
    If you are going to try cross-country skiing,
    Start with a small country.



  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill69 View Post
    So on these figures the loco with a dry boiler weighs 44.6 tons and the tender is under 20 tons? Conversion gives 19.73tons, I would estimate the bogeys and frames at about 5 to 5.5 tons so that makes a very light tender.

    Bill69
    Apart from the frame and bogeys there is really only the buffers, drawgear and water pickup equipment plus the steel plating for the welded or riveted water tank/coal space.I can't see that lot weighing over 20 tons for a small 3 axle tender.

  11. #41
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    I still prefer to take the weight given in the loco data as dry weight and allow the weight of water and coal to be added when in Trainz.

    Bill69
    If you are going to try cross-country skiing,
    Start with a small country.



  12. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill69 View Post
    I still prefer to take the weight given in the loco data as dry weight and allow the weight of water and coal to be added when in Trainz.

    Bill69

    Obviously it's up to you what you do, but the weights quoted on Wikipedia etc are almost invariably the in service weight.

    I remembered last night that I have a copy of the official LMS "diagram book" which gives the weights both light and loaded. The tender is quoted at 19.75 imperial tons empty, the loco 43.5 imperial tons empty.

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