TRS19 Official Release - What will your review say?

We're getting close to release and for those of you who have accessed the beta builds and content, you've pretty much seen the final product (and yes, Save games are working once again in our internal build).


We know that there will be the good, the bad and the ugly when it comes to reports when the latest version of Trainz hits the market, so we'd love to hear from you guys now about the good points, and the not so good points of what you are expecting to include in your "review" of the official release version.

Scheduling - the basis of all railroads. Maintenance, weather, customer purchasing, adding and retiring equipment. Even add in economic factors. Imagine real weather AND real business challenges. Define the economic elements that impact a railroad and make those day-to-day realities hit your railroad. Do you reduce payroll, acquire an existing local rail operation and allow the original owner to run it but be managed by the purchasing company. However, without a proper scheduling system all we have is a giant set of virtual model railroads, that may may become boring, and only used beneath the Christmas tree.

AND, the people to create the software to do all this requires less expensive talent. Some good API's to TS19 and business oriented programmers can fulfill many of the tasks for making a real operational railroad. The impact on TS19 is minimal. Separate addons ($$$), albeit major ones, is the result.

There is no official documentation yet.. correct? As a newbie that is what I'd be interested in. I've been using computers since early 1980's. I don't game that much but I've had a good number over the years. I was expecting some conformity to the routes and sessions but I quickly learned that there is none. Don't get me wrong. I think that a good thing. It's just confusing that sessions have differences. Some hand hold, some allow you to be driver, conductor, loadmaster, etc. And there are so many operational differences! I came across one route where the switches could be seen and thrown on the map. But so far, only one. Sometimes cars automatically unload, sometime I have to be the loadmaster. All pretty obvious I would think to those who have used Trainz. But for newbies, and with little official documentation explaining all this, the noob can do a lot of wondering "what's going on."

Over all the TRS19 experience has been very enlightening and exciting for me. Runs better than I expected on my iMac (at low settings) but yards with lot's of trackage is a pain. I love prototypical, but so far, smaller layouts (such as philskenes model train routes) are much more enjoyable to run just due to my Mac hardware.

I'm considering building a PC just to run Trainz. But I believe some built in "less demanding (graphics)" routes than run smooth on "lessor" machines would help noobs see that they too can have a good experience with TRS19. The noob running Canadian Rockies or working a yard would probably not write an exceptional review... while the same person running appropriate routes and sessions for their hardware might be very pleased.

Perhaps routes/sessions should have a "hardware" (graphics card) rating?

I'm looking forward to experiencing the inner details of all this...... creating routes, content, etc. It can be a bit overwhelming and excellent docs would help.

Thank you for TRS19! Thank you for your hard work.

Not sure what is being requested here. A review of what will be under many Christmas trees?

If you have the computing power to run TRS19 wide open with all performance sliders maxed, you will see and experience Trainz like never before. New features like PBR, TurfFX and Clutter, when used correctly, really bring new levels of visual realism to the routes. It will take time for new objects and routes using these to appear. Upgrading existing objects and routes is not a trivial process so there will be a period when there will be a mix of old and new. This is nothing we haven't experienced before but since these new features are so visual, it is more obvious this time. Thanks to those same sliders, those with less computing power can also play, albeit with lower performance. This along with the users' capability to create new objects as wanted or needed, makes Trainz one of the most customizable platforms to enjoy our hobby. And being able to freely share those new objects with everyone else is also a big plus.

I have the early acces, unfortunatly i was to late for beta testing apply i gues, but from what i been playing i love it. I came from Trainz 12 to 19 and so far love every bit of it except for the facts i stated in different thread about not like how we do t have acces to the driver command bar anymore without giving control up of the train same as that i dont like it when at a industry active station it will take control away of the train even if you have to just stop there for a waiting signal. An option for these things would be nice to have so we can decide to have that on or off

I wish that N3V repaired all script errors, which are showing in TANE and continue in TRS19. And yes, N3V be so fair and make a control of all built in sessions in TRS19 to eliminate errors which are shown now when open the sessions. I occasionally have the feeling that you are not able to fix this but I hope I'm wrong.

At this point in the game, no pun intended, TRS19 is by far the best version of Trainz yet. This is true more so for those with the hardware to strut the stuff that the program can do. For those with less stellar hardware, this program will be no different than TS12 or T:ANE except for a different interface. For those with the capable hardware, the performance is truly the best yet even with a very immersible environment with thick fog, shadows, reflections, and dynamic lighting.

I am still not 100% convinced that the PBR textures are the way to go. In many cases, they cause awful anomalies with routes that are difficult to remove without replacing the textures completely. What is worse is having textures get automatically updated to PBR as they were replaced by DLC versions of the same textures used previously. In cases like this, it's a bit disconcerting to have a route that looked good previously change to one that suddenly has holes under tracks and roads, and a gel-like appearance in places along with roads, tracks, and other splines buried under the baseboard.

The driver interface is different, but it's easily navigable once the user gets used to it. There are still some things missing which are important such as actual distance to upcoming signals and destinations in addition to running mileage, and the ability to add in driver commands on the fly as we can with T:ANE.

The actual driver images need replacing. The 3d drivers are not nice, and to add insult to injury they have mixed up genders. There's nothing like seeing a blonde female with a name like Fred, or a completely bald Ami! These moving creepy faces are more alien-like and belong in another video gaming genre. It's a good thing we can change the actual individual drivers assigned to the old 2d images, but we still have their 3d counterparts when viewing the driver list. This needs to be addressed if it has not been already.

The new main menu interface is different than all previous versions including T:ANE with its side-to-side slide and larger interface, and the old Rail Yard, albeit in a new form, is a welcome reintroduction into the Trainzing world, which disappeared with the introduction of T:ANE after having been part of the program for so many years prior.

But as much as this version is about the visual aspects, there are still many underlying things that need fixing. The underlying sound engine is still the same so that there is no real difference in ambient sounds, and there is still no stereo or directional sounds. The locomotive sounds are still the same locomotive sounds we've had since day one in TRS2004, and this is an area that needs improvement. With all the pretty stuff on the outside, this now seems old in comparison which it is!

There's nothing perfect in this imperfect world we live in, and we're all human and make mistakes. Given that this is a computer program, it's not without faults. We've come a long way since the earliest days of Trainz, but I feel we still have a lot more to go.

Personally I am not impressed with the new PBR, TurfFX and Clutter features. Oh sure they might look good in a first person shooter game, where the game player is running along close to the ground, but driving the locomotive in the cab, one cannot really see them. And in the creating respect, they are very hard to grasp, at least to my old feeble brain. I like stuff like grass that I can just place and go.

There are a bunch of other features I'd like N3V to concentrate on. Like improving road traffic (PLEASE, it's outdated), "fixing" the copy and paste tool whereby whatever you copy can be manipulated better to actually paste in the area you want it to be pasted, without the dashed line wanting to paste off to one side or the other. And give us a ROUND paste area to use. Add the option to copy an item (such as a tree) by holding down the Shift key and dragging the copied item. Any other program and map making game I've ever used has this. Give us a dashed line selection tool, whereby we can select a whole slew of items to delete (or move).

But I guess I'm not answering the original question. Sorry, but I had to throw in a few wishes in there.

I have been running the beta now for a few weeks and the main feature I like (so far) is the brightness control. I have been able to fiddle with this (along with the old color controller) and manipulate the overall look of the game to suit me and I really like this. I still think we could use a contrast control "knob" but I'll take the brightness control for now. Also, the A.I. trains seem to behave themselves some better. Still have had a few cornfield meets and one train attaching itself to another, but not as bad as the previous versions of Trainz. My framerates have never been better. A long way from TRS2006 when the framerates were horrid (not to mention the game crashes). I love the reflections (sunlight on the water) and shadows seem more realistic (not perfect but getting there). The whole game just seems smoother in all respects. I'll never go back to any other version of Trainz.

Don't know what else to say.

Thanks guys at N3V. Superb job!!

Dave Snow

Well,I can't seem to get all the fuss. Of course I'm using craptops and junkpile PC's,but anyways,the review for TRS2019.


It's not bad,but not as good as TANE in terms of user interface. The horrifying demonic alien zombie "Drivers" that were raised by satin (The devil.) himself just hurt the game bad to me,and old drivers like Willie the gimp (I'm pretty sure it's that.) are replaced by the demon drivers,hurting it to me even more.

But to me the new interface is a mistake. The old one worked absolutely fine,yet you had to replace it with some crap. And the derailment physics in TRS2019 are the same as TANE... lousy and pathetic. (Sorry if that sounded harsh,but it's the unfortunate truth.)

Although having seasonal procedural track is nice,I prefer track that changes with the season,not the snow line. (Thats how seasons work...) But although the height mapped textures are nice,they have issues on steep slopes though. TurfX is also nice,but requires some kind of super computer to run on with decent FPS.

Although I'm happy that railyard is back,I'm disappointed that you can't sound the horn in it. (It's an easy way to test the horn.) Sound are improved,but still need work.

But all the "Installed,payware" on things on the DLS that had there kuid upped one just to put DRM on it is just... BAH. And having the DLC and built-in routes editable in TRS2019 is very nice,but at least being able to change the whistle/horn,engine spec,engine sound,and cab would be nice. (Along with allowing edits to bogeys like just adding "Direct-drive 1" would be nice.

But a huge show stopper for me is the "Other routes you may like" crap. To me it's useless. But the issue with things supposed to have reflections being "Barf green" also doesn't help the case. The issue should have been resolved by now.

Over all TRS2019 isn't bad,but to me TANE is still much better now. So I'll give TRS2019 6/10.

Oh by the way, I like the new wheel screeching sounds!



Dave

TRS19 did just what I was afraid of and that is making me to stop using TANE. I had 380 gig of DLS/DLC all nice and snug. Now I am rebuilding it al with TRS19 because everything! looks better right off the bat. The new graphics system makes a lot of the old stuff look brighter and crisper. I noticed this the first time I ran it. Was a very awesome thing to see to me. Turftx is nice stuff once you get a hang of setting up the parameters first. A bit of a learning curve to say the least. The PBR textures look great but you have to get used to them also as they can raise or lower the ground you apply them, a bit here and there. In essence they make flat ground not flat any more. This can be a pain near roads or tracks. I haven't gotten the hang of clutter yet, mainly because I have been beta testing all the redone routes.

I can run with all the settings maxed out as I did in TANE, difference in, it runs better in TRS19, smoother for sure. An occasional micro stutter, seems when loading another base board. TANE stuttered a lot in dense tree areas or hi mountain areas. They stutter in these places in TRS19 but not as bad as TANE. In TANE I would have to lower the draw distance to 6 or 8,000. In TRS19 I only have to lower the distance to 12,000 to smooth it out on certain routes.

At this time IMHO there is only 1 major bug that still has not been fixed. If you create a new session in a non TRS19 route and change the environment, (in some you do not have to change anything, just create a new session) , then when you try to save the session you are to save it as a new route and it takes your KUID and not the original author's KUID. Making it impossible to share any sessions. So far I have only found one TANE route that does not have this problem and that is the UMR 2018. I have 45 or so routes installed from the DLS and all of Jointed Rail's routes, they all force me to save a new route.

Since we got the early access a lot of bugs have been found and they have been squashed. The development team has been doing a great job fixing it up.

The routes that we have that are made in TRS19 with all the new graphics packages are totally awesome. The lighting and colors are brilliant. After an initial running to get the cache stores they even load a lot faster than TANE. Even the DLS routes and payware routes do also.

Bottom line, I rate TRS19 a 9.5 out of 10. I also have the Gold subscription which at this time got me 15 DLC items for free. If I would have purchased them normally it would have been more than the $150 for subscription.

Hmm, I liked what MartinVK and DaveSnow had to say. And, like John, the big issue for me is PBR. It promises a lot but it comes at a cost. The only way to fully experience it is to buy a half decent and expensive video card.

I've been working with a well known creator who, frankly, is having trouble with PBR. I have a real concern that the core of Trainz content creators will "throw in the towel" with PBR because it can be expensive to implement. i.e. you need to buy some expensive tools in order to produce the textures it requires unless you are prepared to experiment a lot with the cheaper image tools. Let's hope some freeware, or at least cheaper, tools will come along. I believe they will.

I'm not sure I like the driver interface but I can live with it.

But I do like innovation and moving forward so I'm 100% behind TRS19 and look forward to its improvements in the future.

Another poster mentioned buying a new PC dedicated to Trainz purposes. I did that for TANE. Now I'm considering buying an RTX2080Ti for Trainz. Some of us take this seriously.

I'm not in the Beta but on the assumption the elements I'm judging on aren't going to change or evolve between now and release, I would rate:
A very good graphical overhaul although I share reservations about PBR and must have better and more user efficient tools to manage the environmental settings.

However the overall package is marred by the continuing reliance on dated motive power and rolling stock which utilise even more ancient cabs and sounds - the Sebino route being a case in point, as is the Class 27 with the ECML (based on a screenshot I saw a few days ago). I look at where DTG are with regard to cab and sound effects particularly in TSW and it makes TRS2019 look like an old Amiga game, in that respect. Timetabling and AI signalling/routing without the need for Interlocking Towers also still missing, along with a decent scenario editor.

The strong point remains the ease with which it is possible to build routes but I join with the earlier comments that the basic toolset now needs enhancing to take advantage of the more advanced techniques becoming available.

The good:

Lighting/Environmental settings are getting better.

PBR is a step in absolutely the right direction.

I'm still really on the fence about the new UI. I don't mind it too much in Driver mode but I've been finding the main menus a bit difficult to navigate. I kind of feel like they're a little over complicated but that might just be me.

The Bad:

Still need a bigger skybox. The current skybox is still incredibly dated coming from the early-mid 2000's. It kind of takes away from the new lighting in my opinion.

I have an incredibly beefy PC and it was having issues running the game at max everything. Still need to do more testing on this myself but I get the feeling that in order to fully enjoy this iteration of Trainz, users are going to need some pretty serious hardware.

(PC Specs: Core i7 7700k at 4.45 GHz, 32 GB DDR4 RAM, GTX 1080 TI, the game is also on an SSD)

The Ugly:

Wasted developer time on 3D engineers or whatever they are. Completely unnecessary and an obvious reaction to DTG. They also look terrible.

Wasted developer time adding bolts (?) to the grid. Why? It's supposed to be a basic grid. No need to add additional details to it. Why'd you waste time on that and not actual game content?

Turfx/Clutter option is a good attempt but the UI is awful, confusing and not even in the proper tab in Surveyor. An attempt was made but it was poorly executed. Clean this up. Seriously.




Overall I think TRS19 has been incredibly rushed. It could have used a lot more time in beta to iron out the issues as listed above and maybe benefited more from user feedback and what the community actually wanted. It also could have benefited from more time for actual compatible content to be produced. Instead it's going to be released with a small smattering of PBR content to show off "what's possible" rather than actually coming packed with PBR content, assets and routes.

The game is also ridiculously overpriced IMO. I'm not sure who you think your target market is but you're certainly thinning the demographic to only those who can afford to spend $70 on a game. I don't know many people in the younger demographic who have that kind of money for a train simulator. (don't get me started on the monthly subscription)

Wish List (for the future):

Fix the Turfx UI, like, seriously you need to fix this if anyone is ever going to make use of it. Create a new UI instead of piggybacking off of UI that's already been coded.

A better skybox would make a world of difference with the new lighting engine and PBR/Parallax texturing. The current skybox is holding back some gorgeous scenes and screenshots.

Dynamic weather.

Free roam camera or actual free flying camera in driver.

I don't know how this could ever be implemented but a better system for laying roads would be awesome.

Stop porting old content into the newest game already. Make some new content for gods sake. I still can't get over the Trainz 2006 track I found built into Trainz 19.

Bigger marquee tool for terra-forming and texturing. Or at the very least an option to set the height of an entire baseboard

Ability to set a fixed height for building and scenery assets similar to setting spline point heights.

Shift-Click or Control-Click to select multiple spline points or assets so they can be moved as a group.

Copy paste that has a proper preview, isn't locked to the grid and can be rotated at any angle instead of just 90 degrees.




Those are just my thoughts. Take them with a grain of salt as you wish.

Joe

Wow. There is some great information here. So good to get some frank opinions. I have not seen TRS2019 yet, but was initially quite excited by the possibilities, based on some of the spin I have read. I am still really looking forward to playing with it, but will reset my expectations to something slightly lower.

Still, it's always good to get another incremental Trainz advance ) thanks Tony).

Phil --

Don't think of TRS19 as "another incremental advance". There are a goodly number of us who honestly think it's more of a great leap forward. It's significantly better. When I compare my videos made in T:ANE with those from TRS19 I cringe at how primitive T:ANE now seems. Check for yourself -- youtube / philskene.

This is but one example. You could never ever get these effects out of T:ANE.


Phil

What is PBR content?

davesnow said:

What is PBR content?

Click to expand...

Do you live under a rock Dave lol PBR has been mentioned quite often during this whole TRS2019 Release/Beta thingy so far mate but here ya go http://online.ts2009.com/mediaWiki/index.php/Pbr

Congrats to the team behind TRS2019 this release has been way better then the Tane release ever was and was handled very well in my opinion. TRS2019 will only get better from here. Most of the other points I have any concerns about have been raised by other's here way more knowledgeable then me in testing but I'm quite happy over all and would happily recommend it to new user's, Keep up the great work.
Cheers Mick.

matruck said:

Do you live under a rock Dave lol PBR has been mentioned quite often during this whole TRS2019 Release/Beta thingy so far mate but here ya go http://online.ts2009.com/mediaWiki/index.php/Pbr

Congrats to the team behind TRS2019 this release has been way better then the Tane release ever was and was handled very well in my opinion. TRS2019 will only get better from here. Most of the other points I have any concerns about have been raised by other's here way more knowledgeable then me in testing but I'm quite happy over all and would happily recommend it to new user's, Keep up the great work.
Cheers Mick.

Click to expand...

If I don't ask I won't know.

I haven't played TRS19 yet, but I've seen and heard good things about it. And it looks absolutely beautiful.

I just started a new job, maybe I'll have to go shopping after the first paycheck hits that direct deposit (or now, and just go cheap on lunch breaks until then)

EDIT: And exactly two hours after writing this, I took the leap. So far it looks very promising.

Matt