.
Results 1 to 13 of 13

Thread: Automatic Junction Switch Not Switching Properly

  1. #1

    Default Automatic Junction Switch Not Switching Properly

    I have Trainz 2010 (build 49933). I'm enjoying to build a route in Surveyor Mode, but there are several things that annoyed me. In this case, I have a single-track section (10 Km) with 2 passing loops (non-mainline / secondary line), and 3 AI trains are in operation.


    ^ Train 1 and Train 3 are waiting for Train 2 to exit from the single-track section. As we can see that the red and green triangles are the junction switches.





    ^ Train 2 entering the secondary line to stop for a while at Station A trackmark, and the junction on the front of Train 1 is switching automatically to mainline.



    ^ Train 2 continued its trip to the next station. Now, both station have available second line.



    And... the problem is the junction in front of Train 1 and Train 3 are set for mainline. As the result, both trains are stuck, because the signal is red.
    So, the question is why the junction switch can't find the alternative track / secondary line? Actually, I can switch the junction manually, and the train can continue their trip. But that's not what I expect, I expect the fully automatic junction switch.



    ^ I also experienced that kind of problem, when Train 2 is in mainline, and Train 1 supposed to be to Station A trackmark in secondline. The distance between Train 1 and the junction is 10 Km. Train 1 can't run, because the junction is set to mainline. Once again I have to switch the junction manually to make Train 1 can run.

    Is there any solution for this kind of problem?
    Last edited by yapyurva; November 9th, 2018 at 06:06 AM.

  2. #2

    Default

    First check that the levers are on the single track side in the spline point circle. Sometimes they may be to close or on the wrong side of the diverge.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Antarctica, Vostok Base, South Pole, AQ
    Posts
    18,227

    Default

    I feel that if you place a switch lever farther up on the straight leg (or diverging leg) of a turnout, and slide it on backwards, using the Trackmarker/Trigger tab "Move" tool button ... the trackside switch lever remains on the selected track it was placed on, and does not flick over to the other track when sliding it backwards

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    United States of America, Massachusetts, Haverhill
    Posts
    23,883

    Default

    Outside of the technical issues which might occur with a lever in the wrong place, there are some other things that you need to be aware of.

    The AI drivers drive their trains like tram drivers instead of actual train engineers or drivers. The AI will drive up to the junction, switch the lever then continue. Another issue to be aware of is AI will by default want to take the right-hand track no matter what.

    There are ways around these two issues.

    To force driver to take specific tracks or routes, you can use direction markers which work like one-way signs. To prevent a driver from taking a track, you place the marker, the yellow marker, with the pointy end facing against the driver's path.

    The alternative simple alternative is to use track markers to force AI driven trains to always take a specific track in their schedule. This does allow for a bit more flexibility because this allows the drivers to take any, specified, rather than just a specific one.

    And finally for this solution are path-control rules such as auto-path rules, and other path rules which are used to force the AI to take that specific route. These are quite useful in complex junction areas such as station entrances and yard throats. These kinds of rules will hard-code the route that the train takes ahead of time as well as set all the junctions, signal and everything else so there is no question which way the AI driver will go.

    For your switching issues, you can use something called the Junction Link. (Kuid2:122381:10003:1). This is not a perfect solution, but what it does is link both junctions along a route together so they work in tandem. These are quite useful for crossovers, but can be used in your situation as well to align both junctions so that the AI will always have a through route without any stopping to flip junctions. This not, as I said, a perfect solution. Other AI drivers do not see the junction as occupied and will flip levers on the occupying consist and cause derailments, but with judicious use and working out the timing between traffic, these can work out well.

    Built-in into Trainz is a default junction direction, which this rule overcomes. With the default direction, set when the route and session are built, can be outright annoying because switches will automatically go back to that position once a train has passed. The problem is what is the best "default" direction. It maybe fine in one direction but not the other.

    Anyway I hope these tips and others are useful.
    John
    Trainz User Since: 12-2003
    Trainz User ID: 124863
    TS12 Build: 61388
    T:ANE Build: 90955

  5. #5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by stagecoach View Post
    First check that the levers are on the single track side in the spline point circle. Sometimes they may be to close or on the wrong side of the diverge.
    Quote Originally Posted by cascaderailroad View Post
    I feel that if you place a switch lever farther up on the straight leg (or diverging leg) of a turnout, and slide it on backwards, using the Trackmarker/Trigger tab "Move" tool button ... the trackside switch lever remains on the selected track it was placed on, and does not flick over to the other track when sliding it backwards
    @stagecoach and @cascaderailroad: The switch lever already placed inside the yellow point circle of the junction

    Quote Originally Posted by JCitron View Post
    Outside of the technical issues which might occur with a lever in the wrong place, there are some other things that you need to be aware of.

    The AI drivers drive their trains like tram drivers instead of actual train engineers or drivers. The AI will drive up to the junction, switch the lever then continue. Another issue to be aware of is AI will by default want to take the right-hand track no matter what.

    There are ways around these two issues.

    To force driver to take specific tracks or routes, you can use direction markers which work like one-way signs. To prevent a driver from taking a track, you place the marker, the yellow marker, with the pointy end facing against the driver's path.

    The alternative simple alternative is to use track markers to force AI driven trains to always take a specific track in their schedule. This does allow for a bit more flexibility because this allows the drivers to take any, specified, rather than just a specific one.

    And finally for this solution are path-control rules such as auto-path rules, and other path rules which are used to force the AI to take that specific route. These are quite useful in complex junction areas such as station entrances and yard throats. These kinds of rules will hard-code the route that the train takes ahead of time as well as set all the junctions, signal and everything else so there is no question which way the AI driver will go.

    For your switching issues, you can use something called the Junction Link. (Kuid2:122381:10003:1). This is not a perfect solution, but what it does is link both junctions along a route together so they work in tandem. These are quite useful for crossovers, but can be used in your situation as well to align both junctions so that the AI will always have a through route without any stopping to flip junctions. This not, as I said, a perfect solution. Other AI drivers do not see the junction as occupied and will flip levers on the occupying consist and cause derailments, but with judicious use and working out the timing between traffic, these can work out well.

    Built-in into Trainz is a default junction direction, which this rule overcomes. With the default direction, set when the route and session are built, can be outright annoying because switches will automatically go back to that position once a train has passed. The problem is what is the best "default" direction. It maybe fine in one direction but not the other.

    Anyway I hope these tips and others are useful.
    Well, I think I can't use the direction maker and navigate via trackmark to overcome this problem, because:
    - Train 2 is a local train, and will stop in every station (by using navigate to trackmark)
    - Train 1 and Train 3 are express trains, they will stop only in certain station and not at Station A and Station B

    In the picture below, if I put a direction marker at Station A's mainline towards right, and a direction marker at Station B's mainline towards left, Train 1 will run through the passing track of Station B. After that, Train 3 can run through the passing track of Station A.


    But, I found a problem (again) when Train 2 is going to stop at Station A from Station X, and Train 3 is going to Station X directly at the same time. As we can see that the signal in front of Train 2 and Train 3 are yellow, so it will cause Cornfield Meet at Station A.
    For your additional information, this route using RH drive, and the green and red triangles except the junction are signals.

    So, what's the problem with my route layout? Or should I add/delete more signal?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Australia, NSW, Cronulla
    Posts
    350

    Default

    I would drag the signals that are currently placed at the start of each loop backwards so that they precede the junction leading into the loop.
    Last edited by AndrewH; November 10th, 2018 at 03:20 AM.

  7. #7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewH View Post
    I would drag the signals that are currently placed at the start of each loop backwards so that they precede the junction leading into the loop.
    Sorry Andrew, I still don't get it
    The signals both in mainline and passing line are placed at the end of the track before the junction (before converging).
    As we can see that in front of Train 2, there is a signal that facing the Train 2. It's displaying yellow aspect.
    So, you mean I have to rotate the signals?

  8. #8

    Default

    Have you tried drive via trackmark list? Place a TM on both lines in the station and name them like Station A(1), Station A(2) and Station B(1), Station B(2) 2 is the platform track and 1 is the passing track. Use the driver command drive via TMlist Station A and Station B and select first available. If train stops at the station just use drive to TM Station A(2). Other trains should look at both tracks and not try the direct route.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Antarctica, Vostok Base, South Pole, AQ
    Posts
    18,227

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by yapyurva View Post
    @stagecoach and @cascaderailroad: The switch lever already placed inside the yellow point circle of the junction
    If you delete the original trackside lever, and place a "NEW" switch lever, farther up on the straight leg (or diverging leg) of a turnout, and slide it on backwards, using the Trackmarker/Trigger tab "Move" tool button ... the trackside switch lever remains on the selected track it was placed on, and does not flick over to the other track when sliding it backwards

    Even if the trackside lever may appear that it is inside the spline point circle, it may actually be on the opposite leg of the turnout

    You might get different operational results if the track direction is changed out, relaying the offending track in the opposite direction

    You can also place additional invisible signals, or "Signal Thingy" before the signal, giving the train a secondary "heads up" of what the approaching signal displays
    Last edited by cascaderailroad; November 10th, 2018 at 04:20 AM.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    United States of America, California, Port Hueneme
    Posts
    1,575

    Default

    Had this "Problem" for a long time by now. Is called "Mexican stand off": Both trains are staring one to each other, and can't decide who goes first. I tried most of what has been said, and if it solves the problem, it screws something else. I know it is not a solution, but if you disable AI control of one of the consists, the other one goes first. As soon as that one goes into the points, you can enable AI, and it waits until is clear continuing. I even tried playing with priority markers, but it could be confusing, as once a consist enters a portal, what comes out has the default 2 priority, and you are back to square one. Sorry not offering a solution, but post #4 has all the essence of the problem.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    United States of America, Massachusetts, Haverhill
    Posts
    23,883

    Default

    I agree with Stagecoach. That appears to be the solution to use if you want trains to run freely between platforms. I use his method for all my routes and have for years with excellent results with sessions lasting for hours as the AI drivers move their passenger trains to and fro on my commuter rail and tram routes.
    John
    Trainz User Since: 12-2003
    Trainz User ID: 124863
    TS12 Build: 61388
    T:ANE Build: 90955

  12. #12

    Default

    Ok guys, thanks for your help, I think this problem can't be solved by the conventional method, so I'll try that DriveViaTrackmarkList mod

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    United States of America
    Posts
    594

    Default

    I just tried to set up a small test with 4 trains and 4 stations. I think your only solution is to use an EIT. That's going to be tedious because you need 8 paths between each set of two adjacent stations.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •