Too much light.

D

dalmac

New member
An older route works ok in Trainz 19 BUT the light is so intense it looks like there is fog all over the terrain - close in and in the mid and far distance. Everything has a washed out colour. I have fiddled with all the Video settings and nothing reduces this over supply of light. Even turning down the monitor does not help - things look darker but it still has the foggy appearance. It is most disconcerting. The map in TANE has a nice clear atmosphere close to where the train and action is and a slight foggy appearance in the far distance. In Trainz Classics there is a clear crisp atmosphere close in and in the distance.I understand the use of light is a major initiative in Trainz 19 but can it be controlled. Is there any way I can reduce the amount of bright light washing over the entire map. Eg some sort of Gamma control or whatever?Thanks.
 
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Thanks for the info. I managed to reset the lighting to remove the foggy appearance. I am now attempting to familiarising myself with the other Environment controls. Thanks for your help.
 
As I've said on other threads on this subject, N3V really need to look at changing the default light setting that routes load with. This is particularly so for newcomers to the programme who may not be familiar with its quirks or the existence of wiki's etc. Their first experience of launching a route and finding everything covered in a silver sheen or fog is not going to leave a favourable impression...
 
Vern said:
As I've said on other threads on this subject, N3V really need to look at changing the default light setting that routes load with. This is particularly so for newcomers to the programme who may not be familiar with its quirks or the existence of wiki's etc. Their first experience of launching a route and finding everything covered in a silver sheen or fog is not going to leave a favourable impression...
Click to expand...

I agree with Vern. We now know that shadows can be more real without a total black area to represent them. However, providing a route with terrible lighting and then telling a customer to fix it is not good marketing. Bring in someone who lives in a forested area to find a proper setting. The people who set the Tree coloring, or those who set lighting and fog, are way off the mark and are after drama more than reality.
 
boleyd said:
I agree with Vern. We now know that shadows can be more real without a total black area to represent them. However, providing a route with terrible lighting and then telling a customer to fix it is not good marketing. Bring in someone who lives in a forested area to find a proper setting. The people who set the Tree coloring, or those who set lighting and fog, are way off the mark and are after drama more than reality.
Click to expand...

I agree as well with both of you.

How about simply base the default lighting for each route on its world origin and the calendar settings?

June and July have far different lighting up here in the Northeast USA than December. The same goes with fog and humidity with more in the mid-summer versus winter.

These are default settings of course, which can be changed at a whim by the end-user.

Is this difficult to implement? That's for N3V to figure out, but I think it would solve this lighting issue once and for all, and make for a far more realistic driving environment.
 
Hi guys,

The key points here are that:

1. This is an old route, not a TRS19 route.
2. We didn't provide the route, or configure the lighting.

With that in mind, all of the discussion about us providing a good default is kind of moot. That's not to say that the defaults can't be improved, but it's certainly not relevant to this particular example (and many other similar examples).

What we really needed here is to "upgrade" the existing environmental configuration in such a way that it looks nice in TRS19. That's something that we've spent a fair bit of time on, and are continuing to work on as new examples are found where the upgrade process doesn't provide ideal results. In the interim (or if you have an edge-case route which simply isn't well-suited to any kind of automated upgrade) you have the option to manually configure the lighting, including the option to simply discard the lighting that was configured on the route and reset it to TRS19 defaults.

chris
 
Something that may be worth considering is a means by which users can save, as an asset, their set lighting conditions - i.e. the RGB Ambient and Sun colours, fog and brightness settings for all time control points on the clock (as a group, not individually), plus the universal water RBG setting. This way they can then select and then load the lighting asset that best suits the environment for each route.

At the moment this is only possible if you set the environment values and then save the session, but the saved session is then attached to a particular route and cannot be transferred to other routes unless you know how to edit the session config.txt files.

Just an idea!
 
Agreed. It is also time it was possible to adjust the dials with an accurate RGB value - even if initially this is done by just hovering over each dial to reveal the value. That way at least you can jot down the values to try in another route rather than trying to remember the visual alignment of the dials. And it should be possible to save the master environment settings at route level, not session level. While noting what Chris says, the other two sims seem to do environment and produce an acceptable lighting level regardless of how young or old the route is, without a load of faffing about. It is something that should happen seamlessly for the user. Seems a bit ambiguous to proclaim on the one hand the backward compatibility of TRS2019 then on the next state it isn't N3V's fault the old routes and textures odd appearance in the new lighting is not N3V's fault...
 
I agree it was the subject of one of my awesomely wonderful suggestions to N3V some 4 years ago that they chose to ignre,

I think that all og the environmental settings should be changed to a numeric setting rather than a hue or quai/random blpb from a colour chart.

Again don't know how it would be done but it would give you an amazing consistency for water, clouds, sky etc by simply pointing your red to one number, your blue to a second, your green or whatever to a number.

This would mean that an end user might design a particular water hue to a given number such as 1,1,3 or 2,3,7. and that all other users could copy those settings simply or use them as a basis for their own choices.

I know, I know, genius is its own reward and there is probably a simple reason why this can't be done but damn it, I like it.





Just noticed Vern,s comments above and the hovering number sounds like a very good idea. If it alreadt exists it just proves that you have to work so very hard with N3V to extract the bestfrom it.

JCitron said:
I agree as well with both of you.

How about simply base the default lighting for each route on its world origin and the calendar settings?

June and July have far different lighting up here in the Northeast USA than December. The same goes with fog and humidity with more in the mid-summer versus winter.

These are default settings of course, which can be changed at a whim by the end-user.

Is this difficult to implement? That's for N3V to figure out, but I think it would solve this lighting issue once and for all, and make for a far more realistic driving environment.
Click to expand...
 
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pware said:
Something that may be worth considering is a means by which users can save, as an asset, their set lighting conditions - i.e. the RGB Ambient and Sun colours, fog and brightness settings for all time control points on the clock (as a group, not individually), plus the universal water RBG setting. This way they can then select and then load the lighting asset that best suits the environment for each route.

At the moment this is only possible if you set the environment values and then save the session, but the saved session is then attached to a particular route and cannot be transferred to other routes unless you know how to edit the session config.txt files.

Just an idea!
Click to expand...

This is definitely on the cards. No idea when exactly, but it will come :)

chris
 
Great. thanks for being ahead of the customers. Now if you could just fix the super bright green trees N3V uses as standards (name begins with tree). I have never seen trees like that plus white trunks of maple and oak trees. I would love to see an explanation of why those trees are closer to reality than the many customer offered varieties. Not a big deal. Just 5 minutes and bulk replace (a wonderful feature) fixes the problem.
 
boleyd said:
Great. thanks for being ahead of the customers. Now if you could just fix the super bright green trees N3V uses as standards (name begins with tree). I have never seen trees like that plus white trunks of maple and oak trees. I would love to see an explanation of why those trees are closer to reality than the many customer offered varieties. Not a big deal. Just 5 minutes and bulk replace (a wonderful feature) fixes the problem.
Click to expand...
Dick, most of those trees are version 3.9 and thats why later trees are better.
cheers
Graeme
 
Why the heck environment settings knobs have no numerical scale again? Is N3V so alibistic or what? Everybody has to test thousands combinations instead using proved "profiles" in form of set of numbers. There is very few users satisfied with default setting if any thought. Continuing ignorance.
 
As a senior who's hand/eye coordination isn't up to the rare high standard anymore, I find it next to impossible to adjust the dials. Fine tuning anything is out of the question, so I am stuck with defaults pretty much.

As suggested above - please consider allowing numerical input settings.

Thank you.
 
NOTE TO TONY.



Could you please think about this issue of the problems that Senior Citizens (and younger supporters as well, of course) suffer from. With my eyesight problems I would be really grateful for any SOFTWARE THAT USES THE LARGEST FONT POSSIBLE, does not use pastel on pastel colours and actively considers earlier suggestion about using numbers rather than hues to generate standardardised water colours.

I can keep pace because nearly all of my pleasure is in scenery design. Driving is now moving from difficult to ALMOST impossible.

Notwithstanding the fact that I am a bear with very little brain, an idiot's guide to font enhancement, variation and size would be wonderful.


Please, please give this some thought.

I would be very happy to help by collating customer comments if you are too busy to give it time at the moment
brucem56 said:
As a senior who's hand/eye coordination isn't up to the rare high standard anymore, I find it next to impossible to adjust the dials. Fine tuning anything is out of the question, so I am stuck with defaults pretty much.

As suggested above - please consider allowing numerical input settings.

Thank you.
Click to expand...
 
I've stated this(lighting brightness) issue from day one. I have never adjusted color in T:ane nor did I feel it was necessary. TRS 2019 is washed out. Like our sun on steroids. I imported the Eagle River route(a pat on the back for you Scratchy,SUPERB route) and it seems way more foggy when run in TRS 2019 compared to T:ane. I don't like the shadowy fog in the pines. I don't really know how else to describe this,but if you've seen it, you will know what I mean. Is it a Video card issue(or software) that make for sun and shadows during a rainstorm. Maybe I'm hoping for too much, too soon?
 
mrjunction said:
I've stated this(lighting brightness) issue from day one. I have never adjusted color in T:ane nor did I feel it was necessary. TRS 2019 is washed out. Like our sun on steroids. I imported the Eagle River route(a pat on the back for you Scratchy,SUPERB route) and it seems way more foggy when run in TRS 2019 compared to T:ane. I don't like the shadowy fog in the pines. I don't really know how else to describe this,but if you've seen it, you will know what I mean. Is it a Video card issue(or software) that make for sun and shadows during a rainstorm. Maybe I'm hoping for too much, too soon?
Click to expand...

The sun and shadows during the rainstorm is a lighting bug and has been documented in the beta and appears not to have been addressed yet.

The shadowy fog in the pines is true to life if you live up in places such as northwestern Maine, or the Pacific Northwest, but I agree the lighting overall is a bit over the top still and needs adjustment.
 
I find the possibility of light management in TRS2019 excellent.
It can be very personalized and, as a creator of routes, I will use it in the various sessions.

The next screenshots are set in the "old" White Pass, with very few substitutions of groundtextures and objects. NO post processing.
The "White Pass" will be subject to secure upgrades.
Remarkable seasonal version (winter) of groundtextures.

wp5.jpg


wp6.jpg


wp7.jpg


wp8.jpg


Immagine_14.jpg


Immagine_6a.jpg


Immagine_6.jpg


Immagine_7.jpg


Immagine_10.jpg


Immagine_13.jpg
 
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One thing is personalization, another of same importance is ability to be shared. Why other games supports profiles for example. Why each single user of Trainz is forced to experimentate upon each route or even every single session without possibility to use shared environment setting from someone else, whose settings looks fine? That is absolutely user unfriendly and moreover step back in comparison with previous versions.
 
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