Too much light.

chris201trainz2010 -
Except I will judge the lighting because i've experimented with it myself and it leaves a lot to be desired.​
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​
Then it is your experimentation that leaves a lot to be desired, since it is entirely possible to set lighting levels in TRS2019 to be almost totally dark.
However, judicious alteration of the supplied controls will allow you to finesse the entire gamut of colours, contrast and brightness levels that your monitor is capable of producing.
Time to get over it and stop grizzling about things you can control and master!
Learn how to use the new environmental settings controls and apply them to your sessions - whether legacy or built-in.
Once set to your taste, then save them with that session. Done!
 
Never faced such presumption at any game developer. I've played a lot of PC games so far and never needed anything like this (maybe except slight gamma correction). I am photographer too and I never ever needed to calibrate my monitor to get good picture on the screen. N3V might understand it as I am not any demanding. So why should I need to calibrate my monitor in Trainz? I think discussion doesn't neccesarilly need to be manipulated monitor settings related way. And everybody understands that older maps with original environment settings and original textures might look differently in new gen game. It is very time consuming, but it is improvable, unfortunately upon single map or session only. Trainzers would need to have it given much simplier from the the developer's side. Requirements were mentioned several times. Be able to input setting as numerical values (RGB, percentage, 1 to 5... whatever, depends on character of particular setting) and be able to share settings with other players. Possible? YES? NO? Why? But as I understand from the previous posts: simply said, we are expected to spend 70 bugs and DIY. That is what it is going to be about. There is no concern, that content creation or route building is very time consuming, Trainzers are also forced to spend lot of time with environment settings to have it looking as it should be from the very beginning, from the developer. Is this going to really keep current users loyal and attract new customers?
 
Tony_Hilliam said:
Sorry you’ve missed the point of my post (and unfortunately didn’t provide any additional details as to whether you are referring to builtin or specific 3rd party routes so I am none the wiser).

Expect that routes created over the past 15 years to have wildly different environment settings. Some will look great without change in trs19. Others will require resetting of the environment settings to suit your taste.

The key point is that at any monitor settings Tane will look considerably darker than trs19. Then the textures used will either make things better or worse. The problem here is that “brightness“ is subjective. That is why every monitor has contrast and brightness controls.
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PC_Ace said:
Then it is your experimentation that leaves a lot to be desired, since it is entirely possible to set lighting levels in TRS2019 to be almost totally dark. Time to get over it and stop grizzling about things you can control and master! Learn how to use the new environmental settings controls and apply them to your sessions - whether legacy or built-in.
Click to expand...

I supposed i should go into more detail, then...a better way to word my complaint is that the only new lighting feature TRS19 has is the Brightness control, which is essentially just the Gamma setting from every version of Trainz before T:ANE. Saying that TRS19 has "new and revolutionary" lighting is hardly a true statement. The Brightness setting also means i have to fiddle and fuss with the enviornment settings on most 3rd Party routes (Whiteshore comes to mind: it's way too bright by default in TRS19) just to make the game look better. Granted, i do this anyway because i enjoy taking screenshots and i want them to look decent, but it's a little annoying to have to spend a large chunk of time simply making the environment settings tolerable. That's not that huge of an issue though, i will admit.

This part is what astounds me:

1. Calibrate your monitor once.
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If i have to adjust my monitor settings to make a game look better, there's a problem with the game. I'm sorry, but that's something no other game has ever asked of me, which, IMO, makes it a flaw of the game, not MY monitors. "It's not TRS19's fault, it's everyone's computers!", right?
 
JAGG said:
I am photographer too and I never ever needed to calibrate my monitor to get good picture on the screen.
Click to expand...
This is surprising to me as a photographer who has had to work extremely hard to get accurate colour/brightness on my monitors; this has also been done to ensure I have an accurate monitor for content creation.

I have two screens hooked up to my computer; one is an Asus ProArt monitor the other a relatively cheaper AOC monitor. Both show wildly different colour profiles, and brightness. The ProArt monitor is calibrated with a Spyder 4, but I can't actually calibrate the AOC to show anything close enough to that - the monitor itself literally won't show the same colours (it is also a lot brighter).

Having actually spent time researching this, for both content creation and photography (including when it comes to getting prints to match what I see on my screen), monitors are not even close to a standard. If I put Trainz onto my calibrated ProArt screen, it looks quite good. If I simply move it to the AOC screen, it immediately becomes washed out and over bright. This has proven to me just how important the colour profile and monitor brightness/colours are to the display of Trainz itself.

This coupled with using routes that have not been adjusted for the new lighting conditions within TRS19 (and they have changed, as has been pointed out several times - you will find that some routes will need to be adjusted for the *best* results) will result in an unexpected appearance in Trainz. As with moving routes from TS12 -> TANE, moving routes from TANE -> TRS19 may require at least the brightness slighter in the environment settings to be tweaked. Or simply reset to default, and start from there.

A good baseline is to have a look at the Kickstarter County 2 route. If it is appearing too bright, then you may need to adjust the brightness or contrast of your screen. On a calibrated screen, this route's environment settings are quite reasonable (they won't be perfect for every environment, but they are still a good baseline for checking this side of things).

Regards

EDIT: I have attached a quick mobile phone photo showing the main menu route in TRS19 on both of my screens, as an example of the difference seen between my calibrated monitor and effectively non calibrated monitor. It is quite a substantial difference, however as the second monitor (right hand) is rarely used for anything that is graphically important, I have not spent much time trying to match it to the main monitor (left hand monitor). However it does show that the look of Trainz is dependent on the settings of the monitors...
 

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My "calibration" of my lo-end BenQ 27" monitor is to get live studio TV(via the internet) to look as clear and and real as possible. Then setup TS19-Environment to look good but never touch any settings (NVidia or BenQ) to cater to TANE/TS19. So far I am quite satisfied with live TV and TS19. Yes, I understand that every stop from studio to home was plagued with some number of compression algorithms but the skin tones remain pretty good. I remember going to the studios of KDKA Pittsburgh and seeing for the first time true HDTV but really a wide-band analog format. While the masses saw 6khz stuff the studio produced 10 to 12mhz pictures which were amazing.

In the era of TS09 there was, for some reason(?), many textures produced that were just plain terrible, that even glowed in the dim light of evening. TS10 carried some but they seem to go away in the texture stock of TS12. Of course, the DLS continued to offer them and if a system was adjusted to accommodate the bright textures the customer had some problems.
 
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If i have to adjust my monitor settings to make a game look better, there's a problem with the game.
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I think there are still misunderstandings here.

If Trs19 is too bright for you, there are 3 possibilities:
1. It’s your monitor (or monitor calibration)
2. It’s the settings of the route you are viewing being brighter than the ones we’ve tested
3. It’s your preference that scenes should be darker than they are (in all cases)

We still don’t know which we are dealing with. For #2 weve made adjustments to cover the “typical “ TANE route (perhaps not sufficiently yet - further information will help).

For #1 if your monitor is correctly calibrated you can skip this step. Quite clearly if your monitor is not calibrated correctly the image will not be correct. (Eg if brightness on the monitor is ramped up, you can expect TRS19 to be brighter than at a lower monitor setting.)

Zec’s post provides some good examples of how different settings and monitors make a big difference.
 
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Tony_Hilliam said:
If i have to adjust my monitor settings to make a game look better, there's a problem with the game.[\quote]

I think there are still misunderstandings here. If your monitor is correctly calibrated you can skip this step. Quite clearly if your monitor is not calibrated correctly the image will not be correct. (Eg if brightness on the monitor is ramped up, you can expect TRS19 to be brighter than at a lower monitor setting.)

Zec’s post provides some good examples of how different settings and monitors make a big difference.
Click to expand...

I have calibrated my main Trainzing display using an IT-8 chart similar to the one above. I then fired up TRS2019 and imported a route that's been passed through every Trainz version since its birth in TRS2004. The lighting was similar to T:ANE, but not quite there and in the end I had to adjust my environmental settings only slightly upwards (brighter) to get a similar lighting balance.

I will say though that the lighting is still a bit harsh with shadows being extra strong, making some details difficult to see, which I'm trying to figure out. This may be something that needs adjustment in the program code perhaps?
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JCitron said:
I will say though that the lighting is still a bit harsh with shadows being extra strong, making some details difficult to see, which I'm trying to figure out. This may be something that needs adjustment in the program code perhaps?
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Typically the "shadow strength" comes down to how much your scene relies on ambient lighting, versus how much it relies on directional lighting. You can adjust both in Surveyor's Environment Settings Dialog.

hth,

chris
 
At home I have two different monitors (same brand, different models) attached to two different computers with different video cards - a GTX 750Ti and a GTX 1050Ti.

Using the same Win 10 background screen (an image of Skipton Castle UK that I took myself) I can easily spot significant differences in brightness and contrast levels. Both monitors are on the manufacturers default settings and both graphic card drivers are up to date.

Running exactly the same TRS19 route and session on both systems also produces noticeable differences in the brightness and contrast levels - even after I have configured the environmental settings in the session.
 
WindWalkr said:
Typically the "shadow strength" comes down to how much your scene relies on ambient lighting, versus how much it relies on directional lighting. You can adjust both in Surveyor's Environment Settings Dialog.

hth,

chris
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Yes this does help, thanks!
 
JCitron - try setting the Sunlight pane's RGB dials to a uniform darker grey whilst turning the Ambient pane RGBs to a neutral near-white.
(Seems counterintuitive to have your sunlight (directional) settings lower than the Ambient light levels, but the result is much more realistic, detailed shadows - and not the harsh contrasts you've mentioned.
Suggest experiment a little with both for various daylight time slots and then top it all off with a gentle nudge to the new brightness slider...
With care - and following that basic premise above - it is possible to achieve full, rich, vibrant colours AND subtle, clearly delineated shadows and greyscale integrity across the entire gamut - especially if your monitor has already been properly calibrated to show its full range of colour tonal capabilities.
 
I'll play around with the ambient myself, later, but if this combined with the dark grey for sunlight makes things more realistic, would again stress N3V need to consider making this the default. Still no comment from them about a more accurate means of inputting or at least viewing the RGB values and possibly exporting/importing these between routes and sessions.
 
Setting your color temperature on your monitor to 'Warm' is similar to using incandescent bulbs instead of 'cooler' fluorescent lights, which produce a whiter, bluer light.
It is a matter of personal taste and preference. Warmer (i.e. redder) colors are more restful on our eyes at nighttime, which is why Windows and so many screens (and smartphones) have a Night Light mode setting.

nightlight.jpg


From memory, the sun's color temperature is roughly 5700 degrees Kelvin.
My screen for professional colour work is typically slightly cooler (bluer...) than that at 6500 K.
So it does have an effect, but really comes down to personal tastes and choices.
 
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Vern said:
.... Still no comment from them about a more accurate means of inputting or at least viewing the RGB values and possibly exporting/importing these between routes and sessions.
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Yep, it is very noticeable.
 
Hi

I seem to have stirred things up a bit with my original post. If the majority of people want the light levels setting up for the monitor default it then begs the question of whose default value do N3V use? As it seems that default values can vary even for monitors of the same make and model then they are on a hiding to nothing with this. No matter what they do someone is likely to complain.

It seems to me that if this is the only thing winding people up about TRS2019 then N3V must have got it good enough to please the majority of users. I certainly feel that this is the best version yet as I've not bothered with other versions since I bought it. When I acquired both TS12 and Tane at first release I didn't bother with either of them for months after first trying them out.

Regards

Brian
 
The BBC used to broadcast a colour test card so that engineers could set up customers' TVs. is it a practical idea for NV3 to produce a simple chart to set up brightness etc. I think for most people they want to load up a route and run it without messing with settings otherwise it becomes too complicated except for dedicated photographers and other lighting experts who have a good understanding of how to achieve the correct balance. Or better still there needs to be some means of applying a settings to each route or session so that when you play different routes for say 30 minutes at a time you don't need to spend 20 minutes to set up the lighting before you start. Select the route, select the session and then select the lighting configuration this would have your particular preferences based on the default provided which could always be reset so that if you mess up your settings all is not lost.

Ken
 
I've been using this sim for about 14yrs now in various versions and never had to set any options for lighting rather than choosing from between night and day
I have enough trouble changing the water color which has no graded scale to set to. I like the water in one route but cant get it in another due to guess work .
From the sounds of it lighting is now the problem to get right another guessing problem from the discussions here
At my age all I want to do is start it up and use it not try to figure out how to see it properly first.
I have hundreds of other games some back to win95 and most of the settings that you would want to change are on sliders 0 - 100 etc
Is nothing new so if this is the latest and the future of trainz why are adjustment tool not graded for reference
it's starting to sound like you've invented the clock but who needs numbers a guess is good enough
 
Users of TRS2019 (and T:ANE) are now spoiled for choice in terms of available lighting settings options and the capacity to set atmospheric conditions for the full Diurnal Cycle of their sessions.
To get to grips with these powerful controls, N3V have recently updated their Lighting Tutorial for TRS2019.
You can run that onscreen - whilst simultaneously trialing the settings in TRS2019 - from this link: https://n3vgames.typeform.com/to/y4J2Rl

If you want to learn more about the new lighting model - and if you haven't completed this tutorial yet, then doing so is highly recommended!
 
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PC_Ace said:
Users of TRS2019 (and T:ANE) are now spoiled for choice in terms of available lighting settings options and the capacity to set atmospheric conditions for the full Diurnal Cycle of their sessions.
To get to grips with these powerful controls, N3V have recently updated their Lighting Tutorial for TRS2019.
You can run that onscreen - whilst simultaneously trialing the settings in TRS2019 - from this link: https://n3vgames.typeform.com/to/y4J2Rl

If you want to learn more about the new lighting model - and if you haven't completed this tutorial yet, then doing so is highly recommended!
Click to expand...

How are these settings saved.

Ken
 
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