Red Spline Point

Every once in a while I'll make a turnout join to another track and the junction point is red. I then have to fiddle with it until it turns back white or yellow. I'm tired of just blindly stumbling around trying to fix something that I don't have a clue about. The bad thing is that it seems to be something different that fixes the problem in each case, so I don't even have the luxury of saying "A-HA, cause, effect, and remedy!"

Can someone please explain what causes this and what the remedy is? I searched this forum and Googled until I'm blue in the face and I can't come up with the answer.

sandpaper600 said:

Can someone please explain what causes this and what the remedy is.

Click to expand...

Angle is too sharp, or not sharp enough.
Levels are too different.

Notice that levels can be affected by the height of the adjacent spline and also the next to adjacent.

sandpaper600 said:

Every once in a while I'll make a turnout join to another track and the junction point is red. I then have to fiddle with it until it turns back white or yellow. I'm tired of just blindly stumbling around trying to fix something that I don't have a clue about. The bad thing is that it seems to be something different that fixes the problem in each case, so I don't even have the luxury of saying "A-HA, cause, effect, and remedy!"

Can someone please explain what causes this and what the remedy is? I searched this forum and Googled until I'm blue in the face and I can't come up with the answer.

Click to expand...

This can be and often is as SailorDan describes but also I have found when doing yards the edge of the spline point for the next junction must be outside the frog of the previous junction.

Cheers,
Bill69

If you are using a track such as TANE Trk Wood,Oak or Concrete, the ties will not connect if it has a red spline point

Renocerous

Quite often the use of the straighten tool on a short section of track before the junction gets rid of the red spline.

As previously mentioned the angle cannot be too sharp. Mostly though I've found the problem to be track vertex height differences. Make sure all spline points near the junction are exactly the same. I usually Get Vertex Height from the diverging point and then Apply Vertex Height to, at least, the two spline points ahead and the one behind.

ecco said:

As previously mentioned the angle cannot be too sharp. Mostly though I've found the problem to be track vertex height differences. Make sure all spline points near the junction are exactly the same. I usually Get Vertex Height from the diverging point and then Apply Vertex Height to, at least, the two spline points ahead and the one behind.

Click to expand...

It must be close to the same elevation but need not be precise. Another factor is joining non-procedural track too close to the frog. May need to lengthen the leg a bit with procedural track.

:B~)

Well, I see by the myriad of replies that I probably will still have to fiddle around with it to get things straightened out. I thought that maybe someone would tell me "Oh yeah, if it's red then just do this." I see that there can be many causes. I guess that's why I was unable to identify the remedy myself, as I was looking for a single cause and effect remedy.

I would have to say though, that most of my troubles are probably stemming from vertex heights, as I am modeling BNSF through Arizona. I have some 2% and even 3% grades, so making a turnout from some of these are where most of my problems come from.

I'm not a big fan of making my turnouts too abrupt, so I doubt that would be an issue and I'm not making a yard nor have multiple turnouts too near one another, so that really all points to the spline height thing.

Thanks everyone for pointing me in the right direction. Muy apreciado! :Y::clap:

I feel your pain, Sandpaper. Our model of the Darjeeling Himalayan Railway suffers from red vertex points that cannot be adjusted as often as not all THREE vertices are of differing heights. Most of the route is on a grade of anywhere from 3% to 14% and turnouts (switches) just won't bend that far. A red vertex won't keep it from working, however. After our conversion of all the track to procedural 2ft gage, some red ones remained. It simply meant the guard rails, animated points, and realistic frogs weren't created. Narrowgauge (Peter) converted the track to procedural.

Bill

Good to know, Bill. At least I know that it will still work if I just can't get it straightened out.

As Bill said, I converted (with permission) 3ft tracks to 2ft by adjusting the values. On the level this worked well, although it is not easy or even possible to get the tight radius of the merging track that is typical of narrow gauge track. However, as the DHR line is 50 miles of inclined track AND junctions, this is where we struck trouble. All the components of a procedural switch have to be on the same plane, which sounds simple in theory, but is a major problem in practice. I believe that this is achieved in the code by comparing the altitudes (ground height) of the nearest spline points. This works but it also implies that a junction can not be placed on an incline.

There is a further problem inherent in the Trainz spline system when applied to narrow gauge track. The track pivots vertically on the spline points which causes track adjusted up on one side of a spline point causes a similar adjustment down on the other side. Spline track can bend vertically in a smooth wave form but not kink.

This is not a problem with standard track but with the cramped confines of a narrow gauge yard it is almost impossible to adjust the adjoining tracks to suit an inclined ground yard requiring tight track radii which then has to connect to a junction that insists that it is laid on absolutely level ground.

None of this may apply to the original posters problem but it may be of interest when pursuing the red circle manifestation.

It's all part of Trainz fun! Just a thought, could a procedural system switch be adapted to a rigid fixed track format, just like a model railway turnout.

Peter (narrowgauge)