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Thread: Open Letter to the Trainz Community

  1. #16
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    Oh I don't know who but at a recent train show, some single locomotives where going more than $1000. Don't remember if that included the tender. Probably not a buy for a beginner but it was eventually sold so there are some out there who don't think the price it is out of line. Makes Trainz look like a bargain basement purchase. Plus one purchase includes almost endless quantities of rolling stock, up to the limits of hardware, memory and disk space.


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  2. #17
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    If anything that was a O or G scale model which are super expensive and not something that is good for someone who wants a lot of em. Unless you have tons of money, like Eric's Trains on Youtube. He probably has a collection worth over half a million or a million dollars now. I model HO Scale and it is much cheaper and affordable then O or G.
    Last edited by MTH_ELECTRIC_TRAINS; August 23rd, 2018 at 10:53 AM.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by MTH_ELECTRIC_TRAINS View Post
    Right, I don't know who would spend $1000 in one go on one train. Thats just nuts! I look for sales and discounts on everything that is expensive. I just don't understand how the game can be so much when like 30% of it is actually their work and most of it is the community.
    The DLC is only a small component in the package when it comes to cost. They also have the servers, infrastructure, and staff to pay too. As Tony mentioned most of the subscription cost goes to paying staff to work on newer versions.

    Viewing in another light, this is called Software As A Service, or SAAS and is not unusual in the corporate world, or even with other software packages such as Adobe CS. Photo Shop, and all those items go for about $20.00 per month. HASH animator goes for about $10.00 per month, and then there's Office 365 and so many other packages.

    Back in the old days, this wasn't unusual in the corporate world. Companies such as Oracle, IBM, Microsoft, Computer Associates, and other big names developed big subscription-based database and server applications. Oracle Cloud and Microsoft Azure are good examples of this, which came out of the original SAAS model.

    Fast forward many years and with the creation of the consumer-based cloud services, and we now have this with personal programs such as games, photo-editing applications and so on at a much more reasonable price than what companies were/are charged.

    Sure we'll hear from others that of course money is the name here, and it is because how else can a company stay in business. It's all about revenue, which brings in cash on hand to pay the rent, salaries, payroll taxes, and utilities.

    What's happening with N3V is not unusual, and I have a feeling other game companies will follow this model as well if they haven't already.

    The good news is with the subscription packages, you can subscribe and then pay for only when you want to use the program. If you don't use it for months at a time, or you can't pay for it for some reason, but everything you've done before is still there when you sign in and pay for another month. For those people who travel, or take a lot of time away from the computer such as those that spend their summer time outside working in their gardens for example, this allows them to pay for only what they use and not waste their FCT as it runs down the clock. Thinking about this a bit more, there are many members here who disappear from Trainz during the summertime because they do other things.

    There is still the alternative, which is to purchase the package outright and still use everything the same as you are now. The subscription model, however, does allow some flexibility as mentioned.

    Given the cost of N-scale locomotives, even used at train shows, this for me is a much less expensive alternative. There's also too less risk of breaking things, which has happened to me due to muscle twitching and odd movements that caused a very expensive locomotive to go crashing to the floor. That was a $120 locomotive in 2004, I can only imagine what the equivalent goes for today, and now that locomotive sits in a box completely smashed to bits with little chance of ever being rebuilt because I neither have the motor skills nor the eyesight to do that.
    Last edited by JCitron; August 23rd, 2018 at 11:20 AM.
    John
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  4. #19
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    Of course I understand they have to pay their emplyees, who doesn't? But, to me it just looks like they are trying to get their money back quick just like they did with T:ANE. You see T:ANE is now perminately $30 because they paid all their employees back on that venture and the super expensive $357 one is too because they are done working on it and no one will pay $357 for a game. Maybe, just maybe, in many years this will always be 45% off which just happens to be $40 USD on the dot. When this is 45% off, that is the only time I will buy this.
    Last edited by MTH_ELECTRIC_TRAINS; August 23rd, 2018 at 11:08 AM.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSGSapper View Post
    Tony:

    Questions:

    1. I am the holder of a Life Time FCT. How does that fit into this attempt to get folks to buy into a subscription game service?


    Bob

    In the same boat, wondering if the lifetime 1st class ticket is worthless now for trainz 19 and beyond.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by animal71bj View Post
    In the same boat, wondering if the lifetime 1st class ticket is worthless now for trainz 19 and beyond.
    I've brought this up too for the same reason.

    Do we get a refund on the FCT portion, or what we've spent money on before is no longer valid, which isn't good. I just want to know where we stand before going for the subscription because nowhere does it say anywhere, including in the My Trainz account that the original lifetime ticket will expire.
    John
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  7. #22

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    About the lifetime First Class Ticket: if you buy TRS2019 you still have the lifetime FCT, don't know where is the problem. In case you want the subscription, you will get 2 dollars discount on each month lifetime too. it's on the FAQ.

  8. #23
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    Because at the moment if I buy the subscription I am essentially paying for an FCT twice, but can only ever use one.

    peter
    ~Peter


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  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by charlie3577 View Post
    About the lifetime First Class Ticket: if you buy TRS2019 you still have the lifetime FCT, don't know where is the problem. In case you want the subscription, you will get 2 dollars discount on each month lifetime too. it's on the FAQ.
    That I understand, Charlie and have no problem with it, but there's a bunch of us here that already purchased a lifetime FCT subscription about 8 or 10 years ago for quite a sum and don't want to do that again.
    John
    Trainz User Since: 12-2003
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  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by JCitron View Post

    Do we get a refund on the FCT portion, or what we've spent money on before is no longer valid, which isn't good. I just want to know where we stand before going for the subscription because nowhere does it say anywhere, including in the My Trainz account that the original lifetime ticket will expire.
    Don't worry. Tony said:

    Your FCT operates normally and is not affected in any way by your subscription status.
    e.g. If you have 7 months left on your current FCT, use your discount for one month, then cancel. You still have 6 months left on your existing FCT.
    #10 here...
    https://forums.auran.com/trainz/show...S19-FAQ-Thread
    Last edited by JanRasmussen; August 23rd, 2018 at 11:57 AM.
    Trainz user since May 2003
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  11. #26
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    I thank if you got a train set for around 30 or 50 dollars all you would get would be a loop or oval of track. Gets pretty boring just watching a train go around in a circle, so you can do so much more with TRS2019. TRS2019 would get pretty boring to if all you could do is go in a circle.

  12. #27

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    The debate about V-scale vs model railways is a bit of re-direction.

    For starters, you need to buy the hardware to run a train sim and to do so adequately it needs to be more than a £300 budget laptop from PC World. With a model railway you have a solid 3D object which you can pick up and handle and has real weight and inertia. V-scale will only ever be a set of 2D pixels on a screen, even for those who use a VR headset. We can have long prototype routes vs. a 16' x 10' layout but again you have the ambience of a world you have created, the smell of the flock and enamel paint and ozone from the locos as they go by.

    The comparison is a bit specious in other respects. As FS19 has come up a few times, a real farm would cost far more than a model railway to buy and equip but FS17 was recently on sale for £7.99 and FS19 is launching at £29.99. Buying a real rally car and using it to compete in real events would cost a small fortune, but I would only ever expect to pay £30 for a rally game on the PC.

    The real factor here should be what other computer games or simulations are selling for. Each has their own business model, DTG has been mentioned a few times - their annual core update is free but the money comes from selling DLC that people actually want to buy. Run 8 uses a similar model and their routes are very expensive but unlike Trainz they are catering to the high end of the simulation market, with high fidelity physics and other operational features signed off by real railroad engineers. And while there may be unexpected surprise at N3V Towers (sorry, PO Box these days) at the number of people who have just gone "sod it" and paid the $70, that price tag is unlikely to draw in much new blood either.

    I should add that model railways generally are an investment, the value of your collection more likely to go up rather than down. Wish I'd hung on to my old stuff from the 80's could have made a killing selling on Ebay, hey enough to fund buying TRS2019. But software is worthless - you don't even really own it, can't resell - certainly on PC with DRM - and you generally can't even get a refund or take it back to the point of purchase if it's rubbish.
    Last edited by Vern; August 23rd, 2018 at 12:54 PM.
    Digging away in MSTS & TANE...

  13. #28
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    Thank you so much for summing it up... I've went to my content manager and there are some sessions that are missing dependencies.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by PerRock View Post
    But also, you're probably not going to spend $1000 in one go, it's gonna a few dollars here & a few dollars there.

    Peter
    Heh, my father spent quite a bit more than that in single trips on several occasions over the years.
    Barret
    Ohio, USA
    Model Railroader and Sad Trainz Railroader

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by JCitron View Post
    What's happening with N3V is not unusual, and I have a feeling other game companies will follow this model as well if they haven't already.
    Many game companies have subscription models. But in every case that I am aware of, the subscriptions are only for additional content (DLC) beyond purchasing the original game itself. And, in every single case I know of, if you cancel the subscription, you get to keep what you've accumulated up to that point. If that was the model that N3V followed, I would have no problem with it whatsoever and I would gladly pony up $100, maybe even $150 a year with the other benefits they include. But to follow the SAAS model that business software follows where you are cut off if you stop paying is absolutely absurd.
    Barret
    Ohio, USA
    Model Railroader and Sad Trainz Railroader

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