Not such a newbie with a peeve

EF65

New member
First off, anyone who goes through the trouble of producing a top notch layout and publishes it definitely deserves an atta-boy. If I could personally thank everyone, I would. Whoever produced such layouts as UMR, OOGH, Kiowa, The Rock, SSP, Ashland, Clinchfield, Powder River's, Summer Lake, and that Rocky Mountain High...Wow, you guys are superb.

Here is the rub. No offense to the creator of the CSX Henderson Sub., but why on earth did you quit on a first class layout? I'm driving my train in some of the most beautiful scenery and WHAM!, my locomotive goes into the river because LP Cut Bank Bridge kuid is missing. Does anyone know how bad of a day the engineer will have with no bridge.

My beef is this common denominator that plagues this sim. Separating the wheat from the chaff. This community truly has some talented layout builders. But for every one there are six who just want to publish a half done piece of trash and move on to another one. There is absolutely no quality control. Layouts don't have the corner market on this phenomenon, its car and locomotive builders too. Who sells a locomotive that doesn't have all of the dependencies? I can't tell you how many cars I have on the RIP track waiting for some lucky download to come along and spit out a dependency the old car needed to get running.

Please, if you start something, finish it. Perform a quality check on the thing, and come up with dependencies that work. I'm not a layout guy, and in fact, I couldn't produce a car or locomotive. But I will pay for stuff, and am willing to pay well. I appreciate those folks that can produce high quality realistic stuff.

Some of us believe publishing a chicken wired layout with a siding and a pretty grain mill put us in the same company as these folks who truly put some effort into some very large and well put together layouts. Let me tell you... take a seat, practice, and come back in a few years. You're not them if you can't finish your work.
 
He didn't HAVE to give it away as freeware, to you ... Then you would have nothing at all ... never look a gift horse in the mouth

Perhaps the dependency is missing, or is faulty on your PC

If you don't like it, don't download it, nor run it ... and go build your own route(s)

Who appointed you as: "quality control", a judge of "half done piece of trash", "Separating the wheat from the chaff", Who are you to demand "Please, if you start something, finish it, Perform a quality check on the thing, and come up with dependencies that work".

People who are demanding, will never get my work
 
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Hi EF65,

I know it can be frustrating, but please understand that a route isn't built overnight: some can take years to build. You often see on this forum people harping on about how long it takes to build a loco, and not to ask because you don't realise how long it takes to build one, and while I completely respect that yes it could take a while, people need to be just as understanding that some routes could take 5, 10 or more years to build. Look at routes such as S&C. I'm sure your missing bridge is just a missing asset, but don't knock route builders in general for one small oversight. Route builders are often a one man team, so mistakes and errors are bound to slip through the net! Anyway, rant over, back to Surveyor I go...
Cheers

PLP
 
It's the creator's fault you're missing a dependency?

It's not the route creator's responsibility to make sure you have all the dependencies. It's nobody's responsibility but your own. If you can't find the dependency then you can easily replace the missing bridge yourself. What you're not gonna do is call someone else's work "a half done piece of trash" because YOU don't have all the required items. Now if you were to ask nicely where you could find the missing item, we could help you. But since you're criticizing someone else's work, that was given to you at no cost at all, over something as silly as a single missing dependency, nobody will be nearly as willing to help you.

Matt
 
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Did you just lose a locomotive, or was it a whole freight train?

If it was a whole freight train I think you might have a serious case for the law firm of Dumas and McPhail.
 
Did you just lose a locomotive, or was it a whole freight train?

If it was a whole freight train I think you might have a serious case for the law firm of Dumas and McPhail.

Dumas and McPhail, brilliant. I love puns, particularly 'punny' ones. See what I did there?
 
I can see both sides of this debate.

As a route creator myself (and yes it can take years to build one) I know how easy it is to "slip up" and lose track of what dependencies are built in or on the DLS, and which ones exists only on your PC (been there, done that). So it is (or until recently, was) easy for a route to be released "into the wild" with an asset or two that does not exist, anywhere. At least TANE CM now makes it easy to detect that problem before you upload.

As a route downloader I also know the frustration of trying to find assets that are not built in and not on the DLS. I gave up doing the "unknown kuid" hunt several years ago. There are sites and threads that will help you but they can give no guarantees and I generally do not have the time. Now if I download a route or session that has unknown kuids I simply delete it and move on.

I guess this is the price that we have to pay for a game (sorry, a simulator) that has such a wide ranging community of freeware contributors. I would not have it any other way.
 
Unless it is a payware route, YOU have no justification to place your blame and criticisms on someones assets ... just because it is on the DLS, doesn't mean that the asset is perfected ... Sometimes you have to fix things that have mistakes ... I would fix the route, instead of just deleting it ... if it has unknown kuids, find them, replace them, or fix them ... If you insist on perfection, then don't even bother to download anything from the DLS ... Unless you yourself are perfect, don't cast stones at others
 
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I can see why the OP has made these comments, as he said, he's never tried to make a route.Until you actually try to do so, you have no conception as to how time consuming it actually is.
in my book, its a bit much to complain about freeware, but that's just typical of certain sections of humanity, they complain about anything , even stuff they get for nothing.
 
Could also be the route was built in an older version of TANE to what the OP (trolling on his 5th post) is trying to run it in and the asset(s) nuked by one of N3V's updates.

While it is frustrating to download something that doesn't quite work as expected, ultimately freeware is like free advice - worth exactly what you paid for it. The issue of QA or ratings for stuff on the DLS has been done to death and the general consensus was not a good idea as open to misuse from malcontents with a grudge against another creator.

As a route builder, I will release a project when I believe it's ready which may not be in a state of perfection. The only comment I would add to that, is making sure the description advises if any DLC sourced or external assets are required to run it. Assuming of course the person downloading actually bothers to check the description or included readme.
 
... but that's just typical of certain sections of humanity, they complain about anything , even stuff they get for nothing.

Todays generation is spoiled rotten, and expects all things for free, with total perfection, and for it to be working "right out of the box", with all dependencies included
 
FWIW, my pet route keeps losing one particular bridge and I don't know why. This is a route that started in TS06 and still isn't fixed for TANE.

It's exactly as the OP described - you're driving along and suddenly the bridge, that was definitely there in TS10, is now not there. Yep, its the "missing dependency syndrome" or MDS for short (tm).

I'm blaming the idiot creator, Hang on, that was me!

Oh, BTW, the CRG has 676 broken routes on the DLS. You would not believe how difficult those routes are to fix.
 
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Just to check this out, I just downloaded and installed <kuid2:107727:1022:2> CSX Henderson Sub from the DLS and there are three missing dependencies:-

<kuid2:7592:52784:7>
<kuid2:68787:100904:3>
<kuid:407646:12001>

.. and one faulty asset

<kuid2:76096:100199:1> US Level Crossing Tower

... which has 11 warnings and 8 errors - the latter are all VE194: Tag 'texture-kuid' does not contain a valid kuid: null. The "View Help for this [error message]" option in TANE goes to a page that has the totally contradictory and illogical message "There is currently no text for this page"

Since finding missing assets and fixing that error is not my idea of enjoying a hobby, I will trash the layout and the faulty asset but the installed and working assets that came with the download might be useful.

Perhaps the OP might do the same and learn from the experience.
 
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Todays generation is spoiled rotten, and expects all things for free, with total perfection, and for it to be working "right out of the box", with all dependencies included

We all know "Perfect" aint gonna happen now is it.

@EF65 Bro you need to just chill out and listen to what everyone here is saying. No one will just give it to you if your not willing to find what you need then don't bother with it in the first place. I been down this road far too many times.
 
Wow what a response, I was surprised at how negative everyone is. Hmmm, where do I start?

I'm actually a big boy. I realize things aren't perfect. Ungrateful you say? I've paid over three hundred dollars for this program and routes and locomotives. Why should I NOT have an expectation that all will work? Honestly, most if not all of what I purchased works. I'm very grateful for that.

What I'm not grateful for is half A$$ed layouts that people just quit on and are allowed to publish. Somebody puts all of these trees and hills and grass on miles and miles of layout and then publishes it with no track and says "have at it". You must have had an idea of what you wanted to create... finish it!

This is a part of my hobby. I've been a "foamer" since I was a kid, which is before 1970.. I'm not a "expect something for nothing" or "want things right away" enthusiast. I was brought up from the you put your name on it you made damn sure it worked era. I'm also well aware of what it takes to make a layout as I spent hours making junk. I would proudly send money to the folks who have developed some of the layouts I've mentioned. If you can create a masterpiece like GHOO or UMR then you should be in the Trainz shop, because I'd pay the going rate for a layout for those.

I'm an old timer, but not here, so maybe your right, coming out of the box, I shouldn't complain. The program works great, I should be more grateful for that. But you characters who right out of the box pretty much told me to shut up, or "Chill out"....

You want people to love this hobby. Train enthusiasts are getting fewer. I can count on my hand the number of people who remember what PRR, PC, DRGW, CNW, CMSTP, BN, CBQ, etc mean. Tell me why you think I'm out of line, tell me where you think I'm wrong. I wasn't angry, not even mad. Many of you came at me like I was.

If you think I have no "justification" to complain... really? If I asked people to pay for a program I developed I sure as heck wouldn't let someone post chickenwire and call it a layout on a site I designated for downloads. Or the locomotive that was packaged up with dependencies with one or two that are missing and you have to find at your own peril. (Oh you can go to that find your kuid website where you begin your search with the words "subscribe")

All I did was state what I've read and seen about publishing content on the DLS, and you'll be hard pressed to argue against my case. Just type in BNSF or UP and one person will have several renditions of his or her layout from beginning to end when had they been patient and not in a hurry to get something published, they would have a final version. I realize there are revisions for different versions of Trainz… but when you have eight different BNSF Lines, with no explanation.. that's not right.

Anyway, I like the program. but I won't be coming here to ask anymore questions. Some of you realize the problem and know my post is nothing but a reminder that there is a difference between layout artist and finger painter, and that we should check ourselves before we put our name on it. That there is a need possibly for quality control. I appreciate those that explained and those that asked me questions, without lecture. I even appreciated meeting my jokes with jokes of your own. To those that likened me to a little kid... without even knowing me.. you just chased me away.

I enjoy all facets of railroading. Its a shame when we ask questions, and have standards for excellence, all the while praising those that that put the work into our hobby, and caution those that "want it in a hurry".. we are met with so many who just get angry.
 
I'm actually a big boy. I realize things aren't perfect. Ungrateful you say? I've paid over three hundred dollars for this program and routes and locomotives. Why should I NOT have an expectation that all will work?

What I'm not grateful for is half A$$ed layouts ... finish it!

You put your name on it you made damn sure it worked era. I'm also well aware of what it takes to make a layout as I spent hours making junk.

So maybe your right, coming out of the box, I shouldn't complain. The program works great, I should be more grateful for that. But you characters who right out of the box pretty much told me to shut up, or "Chill out"

Tell me why you think I'm out of line, tell me where you think I'm wrong..

If you think I have no "justification" to complain... really? If I asked people to pay for a program I developed I sure as heck wouldn't let someone post chickenwire and call it a layout on a site I designated for downloads. Or the locomotive that was packaged up with dependencies with one or two that are missing and you have to find at your own peril. (Oh you can go to that find your kuid website where you begin your search with the words "subscribe")

All I did was state what I've read and seen about publishing content on the DLS

To those that likened me to a little kid... without even knowing me.. you just chased me away.

I enjoy all facets of railroading. Its a shame when we ask questions, and have standards for excellence, all the while praising those that that put the work into our hobby, and caution those that "want it in a hurry".. we are met with so many who just get angry.

Well ... So demanding are we ?

You will NEVER get my route ... In fact your demanding attitude has inspired me to NEVER give out my route to any of the ungrateful "gimmepigs" on the Forum

Perhaps that is an option:
to shut up, or "Chill out"
... nobody likes a critic ... "you are wrong, and you are way out of line" ... if you have a "Peeve" to voice ... go find your own bowl of Cheerios's

The DLS is a FREE repository for anyone who wants to post broken, unfinished routes ... Don't like it ... don't go there to download stuff

Just because YOU paid over three hundred dollars for this (N3V Trainz) program and routes and locomotives. Why should you NOT have an expectation that all (ALL freeware on the Free DLS, that is NOT designed by N3V) will work (as if you had paid money for them, justified because you bought the main Trainz Program Platform for well over $300) ?

Out of hundreds of thousands of Community Members, I have now only one person on my Forum "Ignore List" ... you should be very proud of that status
 
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Don't let cascaderailroad get to you. He's been banned before. I can understand a bridge missing that causes your train to derail. When we upload a route to the Download Station, things like your problem can happen, though not common. I also don't want to see someone new here to leave because of some people's reply. We all have our squabbles on the Forums, but we manage to resolve these situations and continue enjoying Trainz. Also, you did mention one of my favorite fallen flags, the Rio Grande, though the Southern is number one for several reasons:
1. The town my Dad grew up in was on Southern's mainline between Knoxville, Tennessee and Asheville, North Carolina
2. My love of trains began at the Tennessee Valley Railroad Museum in Chattanooga, Tennessee and has a deep connection to the Southern
3. I'm a member of the Tennessee Valley Railroad Museum and have ridden all the 21st Century Steam mainline excursions out of Chattanooga
4. I've ridden behind Southern 4501, Southern 630, and the one that introduced me to trains, Tennessee Valley 610
I will also mention that I my favorite era in railroads is the transition era, when railroads went from steam to diesel, the paint schemes were much more colorful, and people still took the train instead of the car or plane.
 
Here is the rub ... I'm driving my train in some of the most beautiful scenery and WHAM!, my locomotive goes into the river because LP Cut Bank Bridge kuid is missing.

My beef is this common denominator that plagues this sim. Separating the wheat from the chaff. This community truly has some talented layout builders. But for every one there are six who just want to publish a half done piece of trash and move on to another one. There is absolutely no quality control.

Please, if you start something, finish it. Perform a quality check on the thing, and come up with dependencies that work.

publishing a chicken wired layout with a siding and a pretty grain mill ... Let me tell you... take a seat, practice, and come back in a few years. You're not them if you can't finish your work.
If your "Bridge" is missing ... go fix it, or replace it
 
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