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Thread: Trainz and "Gameplay" - Feedback thread

  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by ecco View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by pguy - There are two things designated as Quickdrive in Trainz : QuickDrive as a method of switching easily from surveyor to driver without returning to the main menu, and the QuickDrive rule to easily set at run time some environment parameters.

    Thanks for that clarification. I couldn't understand comments that users had multiple trains running under the AI but did not use Quick Drive.
    There is yet a third "thing" designated "Quick Drive" which was not mentioned above:

    Quick Drive - Choose your own train to drive - A default session offered with every route. I suspect that this is what Tony really meant when he asked the question: Do you only use QuickDrive? (and why?).

    This explains why different users give totally unrelated answers to the question.

    Trevor

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by derhildener View Post

    Since you can replace loccos and rolling stock in driver - i would really appreciate the option, to do so as well with (at least) buildings - signals and : specially trackmarkers - so, that i have the opportunity to drive and build in driver - instead of always going back to surveyor and restart again then in driver. That would be fantastic.
    I would settle for being able to place a sticky note while following my AI trains around. I often see where some additional texturing or scenery or buildings are needed and then forget the where and what by the end of the Session.

    • Pause
    • Write and place sticky note
    • Unpause

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by ecco View Post
    I would settle for being able to place a sticky note while following my AI trains around. I often see where some additional texturing or scenery or buildings are needed and then forget the where and what by the end of the Session.

    • Pause
    • Write and place sticky note
    • Unpause
    That's a good idea. We don't realize how many dumb things we find when running a newly created route. I write them down on scrap paper now, but used to use the built-into-Windows sticky notes to keep track of things needing fixing, but there are those that for some reason don't get noted and we forget to fix them again and again because they're difficult to find when back in Surveyor.
    John
    Trainz User Since: 12-2003
    Trainz User ID: 124863
    T:ANE Build: 94829
    TRS2019: 98592

  4. #79
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    Thank you for starting this thread, Tony. It is really interesting to me to see all the different approaches people take to this game.

    I like realistic in cab driving experiences on detailed routes. I also very much enjoy sessions that are supplied with a route, particularly ones where I am not the only traffic. I wish that more sessions were available. I can create my own, but then I lose the surprise of seeing the different traffic that I encounter.

    As for the driving experience itself, I prefer mainline runs to shunting.

    Some other keys for me:

    - a good player locomotive with a good whistle and good cab views; the best views are just outside the cab. I often create my own, but some payware locos supply this..
    - challenging driving sections with grades
    - single track with multiple passing sidings and plenty of AI traffic
    - routes with cameras for when I want a different view. This also lets the builder highlight aspects of a route I might otherwise miss

    In TS12, the Mojave Sub was my favorite. I would love to see it fully updated in Next.

    Currently, I enjoy JR's Legacy of the BN2 route. I use unportals to randomly generate traffic in both directions and enjoy driving against it. I have both Steam and Diesel sessions. This experience greatly improved when I discovered interlocking towers.

    I am currently eyeing doing the same thing with the Rogers Pass route.

    I love the JR and K&L collaborations with Steam locos and sessions on Coal Country and Eagle River. This is the defining Trainz experience for me.

    I would like to see more sessions available for routes I enjoy. Having them as payware works for me. I am also deeply appreciative to those Trainzers who post extra sessions in freeware.
    "EM Frimbo,World's Greatest Railroad Buff
    Rogers EM Whitaker Travelled 2,748,673.74 RR miles"
    Memorial Plaque at Cumbres Pass

  5. #80

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    I do not care for many of the built in sessions. I do not like having the green object markers in my face all the time.

    As for sessions on the DLS, I find that Hiawatha and Phil Skene are the top session writers.

    I create my own sessions. I use the RANKED items that I pulled from a Kickstarter session. The speeding and derailing and variable setups, set up for a ranked session.

    I run sessions in both ways. Depends on the route. I either have 1 train I drive with AI doing other things or I drive them all. One train gets logs and takes them to the lumber yard. Another will be for picking up the wood and moving it somewhere. Then another to get the sawdust.

    I could never get CMTM to work in TANE.

    I use a lot of different rules depending on what I want the train to do. This is the most powerful part of the editor, rules.

    I love interactive industries, I only use them or make them into usable with a MIN.

    I never use Quick Drive. I create or edit a session and exit out of surveyor and run the session clean. Had a few problems testing a session using Quickdrive so I stopped that real early in my career with TANE.

    I put a little AI traffic in just so I do not feel "alone" on the route. They take a lot of testing time though so I do not go overboard like some people with 150 AI trains. I do not want to use my time for something that large.

    I think multi player is the stupidest thing that came along in a trainsim. I can not beleive how many people cry for it. What good is it?

    I have a hard copy of the original Trainz from Day 1 while I was still using MSTS. That program was so bad I never came back until I saw a vid from Harold about TANE while it was still in beta. As far as I am concerned now, there is nothing better that TANE. It will even be better when we get a hotfix "soon" for the recent bugs that creeped in on the save files, the color of KUIDs in surveyor and a few other minor things that mean a lot to route builders and session creators.

    The best thing about TANE is, it is FUN!
    Last edited by RJArtim; August 5th, 2018 at 01:15 PM. Reason: Fat finger typos
    TRS19 - 98592 - T:ANE 94812
    i7 6700K @ 4.0 ghrtz, nVidia 970
    I don't have a PhD, I have a DD214 - Freedom carries sacrifice

  6. #81

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    The best thing about TANE is, it is FUN!
    Bob, does that mean RWA will now be getting a spin off TWA (!) site?
    Digging away in MSTS & TANE...

  7. #82
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    For people that are interested in learning what CMTMSystem here are 2 links.

    http://www.pacificcoastairlinerr.com/CMTM3.pdf

    http://online.ts2009.com/mediaWiki/i...ystem_Overview

    The first link is in more detail explaination of CMTM.
    This what tane needs for Prototypical Freight System.
    David- Ex UPRR CONDUCTOR- ENGINEER

  8. #83
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    I have loved Trainz since its 1st edition ( in 2001 I was struggling with route building in MSTS when I heard about the something called Trainz, and that some guy had a vision for an easy to use railway modelling package, with a "Community Edition" currently underway, which had a user friendly "Surveyor" option. Apparently it was slated for commercial release. Unbelievable!).

    In response to your survey question, I like that..

    * I can make a reasonable approximation of an historically accurate model on my PC, with the ability to run pro-typical operations. And that the scope for realism gets better with every release.
    * that I can share my model

    Everything else is a bonus, but the rest of the stuff in your original post I'm not that fussed about.

    Phil

    Thanks to Tony, aka "some guy".
    Last edited by FootplatePhil; August 6th, 2018 at 06:24 AM.

  9. #84

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vern View Post
    Bob, does that mean RWA will now be getting a spin off TWA (!) site?
    No. Everyone there considers it the "Dark Side". A few of the guys have TANE, but they PM me about stuff. Same with FSX. All though I got that there it is not used. People are people.
    TRS19 - 98592 - T:ANE 94812
    i7 6700K @ 4.0 ghrtz, nVidia 970
    I don't have a PhD, I have a DD214 - Freedom carries sacrifice

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by casanova419 View Post
    For people that are interested in learning what CMTMSystem here are 2 links.

    http://www.pacificcoastairlinerr.com/CMTM3.pdf

    http://online.ts2009.com/mediaWiki/i...ystem_Overview

    The first link is in more detail explaination of CMTM.
    This what tane needs for Prototypical Freight System.
    CMTM4 at:

    http://www.chinaotoole.com/Trainz/Ca...%20Release.pdf

  11. #86
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    Hi Tony_Hilliam,

    thank you for bringing this interesting thread.

    These are answers to your questions.

    Q1: Is there a particular built-in session that you like? (and what makes this one special?)
    A: I like many built-in sessions, but only as examples to build my own.

    Q2: Is there a session on the DLS that you enjoy?
    A: I do not use DLS sessions as they tend to miss many dependencies and hunting assets is hardly fun for me.

    Q3: If you create your own sessions, what is a typical set-up? (e.g. do you use navigation points?)
    A: I use navigation points extensively, to have organised and efficient trains movement.

    Q4: Do you only ever drive a single train or do you like to jump from one to another?
    A: I prefer to switch between few trains to get more interesting experience.

    Q5. Do you use CMTM (Car Movement and Traffic Management System) ? Or perhaps model railroad card systems?
    A: No. I even don't know what it is.

    Q6. Are there certain rules that you use when making your own gameplay?
    A: I try to make as few rules as possible, because I found adding rules makes session less playable and more buggy. Sometimes less is more.

    Q7: How do you use commodities in your sessions?
    A: Commodities are core elements in each of my sessions. They set session objectives - carry as much cargo (or passengers), over largest distance in shortest time. Isn't it what real railways are for?

    Q8: Do you only use Quickdrive? (and why?)
    A: Usually I use Quickdrive when testing a newly added feature, but sometimes I enjoy it so much, I can stay in Quickdrive for several hours.

    Q8: How much AI traffic do you like in your sessions?
    A: 3 to 8 drivers and as many trains. With more trains I'm getting lost.

    Q9: Have you tried multiplayer? (What did you like/dislike?)
    A: No, I prefer enjoying Trainz alone. It makes me relaxed. I have enough 'multiplayers' at my work.

    Q10: Anything else you'd like to throw in to the discussion.
    A: The very topic of this thread is 'gameplay' and I found it to be the biggest challenge. In perfect Trainz all should go according to schedule, services should depart and arrive on time, commodities loaded and unloaded without delay, but this punctuality and repeatability can kill playability, I'm afraid. So, I intentionally set up cargo to be in short supply. This creates atmosphere of rush and forces me to hurry up and manage traffic as efficient as I can. I also welcome element of surprises when suddenly there is a blockage on a track, a junction cannot be unlocked or trucks refuse to work with usual commodities for some unknown reason and I have to fetch spare stock from a nearest siding. This is likely to cause a huge delay, but also a unique experience.

  12. #87
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    Default It's complicated.

    Tony,

    Love your product, let's start with that. I spend 90% of my time in driver and I always go with the easy mode controls. I also prefer to be outside the train and use the "free cam" to move about while I am shunting. To answer your questions:

    • Particular built in session I like? I do not use built-in sessions but instead like to have an "open" session in which I keep going indefinitely, saving it and then continuing it later. This way, there is no set of goals to reach, instead the overall goal is to simply deliver goods to their correct destinations.
    • Is there a session on the DLS I like? No, same answer as above. However, I use the UMR 2018 map, but do not use the sessions associated with it.
    • If you create your own sessions, what is a typical set up? I start with about 4-5 engines, no rolling stock. I then set up navigation points for each town and send trains to the town that they need to deliver to using the "navigate to trackmark" driver command. I go through the whole route and figure out where each industry is, what commodities it needs/produces and then enter all that information into a spreadsheet. Then I introduce rolling stock into the session as needed, but not with a portal. I set them on a ready track using the surveyor place trains thingy on the right side of the screen. I determine which cars to add based on my spreadsheet. Lets say there is an coal mine that can hold 100 empty cars in a small yard near it. I have the spreadsheet randomly generate a number between 1-100 and then displays that "order" on the sheet. Now I add the required cars to the incoming consist and then send that train to the North Yard (a large hump yard in the UMR map). I hump the cars onto the correct track (also set up in my excel worksheet) and then they sit there until I get another local train to pick them up and haul them. The train that hauled the cars in will sit at the hump yard until I need it to take a consist off of the map. I have a financial sheet as well, and I pay myself every time I deliver a car load on or off of the map. I have done a little research on the internet and found the typical expenses that a class 1 railroad has as well as what they charge customers to deliver different types of cargo. I also charge myself every time I have to add a new engine (1.7 million) or a new piece of rolling stock (54 thousand). These figures may or may not be real accurate, but it is fun to see if I can turn a profit. So far, I have run up huge costs due to the amount of startup cash required but in my world, the banks a extremely generous, although they do charge interest. There's more but perhaps I should stop.
    • Do I ever drive a single train or do you like to jump from one to another? Jump. I have a list of all my drivers and add new ones to the list as I go. I will start with driver #1 and drive that train for 10 minutes using the in game time set to 1x (so a real 10 minutes). I shunt or hump or whatever is required. If the train is in route to a destination, then I just ride along until it reaches its destination or the 10 minutes is up. Then it is off to driver #2 and so on, again I use the spreadsheet to make sure I visit each train in sequence. I find that due to the route being so huge, I may have 10 or more trains driving to their destinations as I am shunting somewhere on the map and it is not unusual to see passing AI trains as I work with the train I have chosen.
    • Do you use CMTM? I have downloaded the instructions and after reading them, found it to be very time consuming and a bit difficult to understand. I'm sure that if I put some time into it, I could get it to work. I used to use a rule called "Car Tagger" which allows for you to manually add labels to each car and that was great but it no longer works with SP3. It is on the DLS but it comes up faulty due to a script error. I posted this on the forum but no one seems to have an answer. I guess my spreadsheet is pretty close to a model railroad card system.
    • Are there certain rules I use? Nothing special, quickdrive, re-rail and some other pretty basic ones.
    • How do I use commodities? I use the Multi-Track industries and actually load and unload cars as needed. I also use the InstantLoad and InstantUnload commands if necessary. I enjoy the difference in weights that the commodities offer when the cars are loaded.
    • Do you only use Quickdrive? Yes, the power to add cars and what their loads will be is fantastic. I have used portals in the past but Quickdrive it much more direct and easier to use.
    • How much AI traffic to you like? Only the AI traffic I create during my open sessions. I do not want completely AI traffic that I have no control over.
    • Have you tried multiplayer? No, I like to play with myself (I mean... well you get it)
    • Anything else I would like to add? I would love to have a system in the game that works like my spreadsheet. CMTM does do most of what I want but setup seems huge.


    Sorry for the book, but remember you asked for this! I have had years of fun running your program and my spreadsheet has undergone many iterations in order to get it where it is today. It is a labor of love.

    Mike

  13. #88
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    Default

    Some things to discuss include:

    • Is there a particular built-in session that you like? (and what makes this one special?)


    I haven't run as a driver much in TANE and can't really judge whether a session is good or not. The few times I did run a session I found them okay. Back in the day of the 2006 version I used to play the Ostalgie and Ostalgie II routes and sessions a lot. thes eroutes were of prime interest because as a child my father and I used to visit the DDR to do some trainspotting because in the DDR many steamers were still in use in the Eighties. The great thing about these two routes and the automated session that came with them was you could be a passenger for hours hoping from train to train and see the great way the route was build. I haven't yet tried to get it to work in TANE yet ( I did manage to get it to work in TS2012 though). perhaps I will give it a try one day.



    • Is there a session on the DLS that you enjoy?


    See the above. I should also add the Niddertalbahn and the outher German routes by Pńngel_anton ... one of the greatest route builders in my opinion of Trainz througout the years.



    • If you create your own sessions, what is a typical set-up? (e.g. do you use navigation points?)


    I use mainly navagition points to direct thet AI trains. My experiene is that when you use the simpler commands like drive to, wait for .. et cetera the AI gets less confused than the many availble complicated rule sets. AI trains not doing what they are told is worse than raising teenagers!



    • Do you only ever drive a single train or do you like to jump from one to another?


    Both.



    • Do you use CMTM (Car Movement and Traffic Management System) ? Or perhaps model railroad card systems?


    I use the ingame indsutries but only because there is not an easy to use alternative. A long time ago I tried the LARS commodity set but it was limited to content I didn't use considering my interest mainly in German railroads. I would love to have a functioning commodity system (I love the railroad tycoon games! )



    • Are there certain rules that you use when making your own gameplay?


    Not really. The lack of easy to use rule sets and commodity sets makes it too hard to spend a lot of my limited available spare time on creating my own "gameplay" the way I would like. The last few versions of trains I have mainly used as a diorama builder or "television screen" watching trains roll by.



    • How do you use commodities in your sessions?


    See my previous statements. The current available options are lacking a lot.



    • Do you only use Quickdrive? (and why?)


    No. I hardly use quickdrive ever.



    • How much AI traffic do you like in your sessions?


    As much as possible but only IF the AI can handle it and we all know there is a lot to be desired about the current AI 's abilities.



    • Have you tried multiplayer? (What did you like/dislike?)


    Yes I have. I ran the routes by Philskene when multiplayer was introduced with ramdon other players and that was fun. But the number of people using MP declined quickly and I stoped as well. What I liked is the possibility to run trains by different people on the same route and as long as there are no trolls in your session it can be great fun. I didn't like there wasn't an option to make one player a kind of gamemaster who can delete trains or players from the route, give commands to the players et cetera. I still think that MP has potential but it needs investment by the development team. I also found it difficult to find likeminded players to runs MP session with. I know there is (or was) a dedicated german MP team which mad many MP versions of the Niddertalbahn. Unfortunately my grasp of the German language is lacking too much to participate.



    • Anything else you'd like to throw in to the discussion.


    One of the most written about "problem" with Trainz is, and has been the bad backward compatibilty of existing content both on and not on the DLS. Are there any thoughts on how to make this issue smaller the coming years? It would be great if a lot of the older content ( which is a very relative statement because content only five years old is considered "outdated" ) could be used in the coming versions of the simulator. And yes I know it isn't always possible and the user can "correct" faulty content, but it would be great if N3V could develope some kind of program that helped the user fixing content (and I stick to my opinion the content was not broken untill N3V deemed it broken).

  14. #89
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
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    Default RE: Gameplay

    * I don't like the built in sessions, because they are too restrictive on what you can do... I like a session where I can actually continue to move cars from Industry, to Industry, to Industry... etc

    *Most CMTM Routes/Sessions I enjoy, because they allow you to continue to track where a car goes.. just like the real thing...

    * Creating my own routes, I use Trackmarks, but only for personal reference of where I am.

    * I usually operate multiple, but typically one at a time. Unless I need to AI a train across a route, and other work needs done that I can not AI.

    *CMTM is preferred, but with Quickdrive V2 being broken, means CMTM does not work as intended anymore. It would be nice if it were a little easier to setup... but it is still possible.

    *I usually use Custom GUI, a Car tagging rule, (ie. Car Tagger, CMTM, Destination Database, etc. depending on route), and some sort of a Portal Manager.

    *I ship Commodities... the way the real railroads do it...

    *AI Traffic, I use limited, because if you tell a train to go somewhere, usually it gets confused, and lost...

    *I enjoy multiplayer... When it works...

    *We need a routing system for the cars that works reliably... (as probably guessed, I like to focus on realistic Operation.) Anyone can run a train in a circle... It takes skill to spot, pull, and switch cars, to the correct destination..

  15. #90
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    Default

    I have been meaning to weigh into this discussion since this thread started, but just got my thoughts together. Here goes:

    • Is there a particular built-in session that you like? (and what makes this one special?)
    I don’t usually drive the pre-made built-in sessions. I prefer to make my own.
    • Is there a session on the DLS that you enjoy?
    As above, I generally prefer to make my own sessions, but I do enjoy the CMTM sessions such as the ones Dap creates for his CMTM routes.
    • If you create your own sessions, what is a typical set-up? (e.g. do you use navigation points?)
    Generally, I will create appropriate AI trains and schedules depending on the route type, and then set up certain individual consists and schedules for me to operate as a part of a car forwarding system. My schedules are made up using timetables created in Excel.
    • Do you only ever drive a single train or do you like to jump from one to another?
    I don’t usually drive trains I control directly using the manual controls, but route them from point to point using track marks and the various driver rules. I take control for the various switching moves at certain locations, and then hand back to an AI driver for the between station transit.
    • Do you use CMTM (Car Movement and Traffic Management System) ? Or perhaps model railroad card systems?
    Absolutely. I had CMTM up and running on several routes in TS12, and now through all the various TANE SP versions including SP3. Runs just fine, however I will concede that it has an almost vertical learning curve. The good thing is Dap, the creator, has always been available to help me navigate issues. It also probably helps that car forwarding is a passion of mine, and I am OCD about problem solving.

    I have tried integrating 3rd party car routing software with Trainz, but ran into the problem of certain auto numbering railcars in Trainz not saving numbers across sessions. This makes it very hard to track the same car from origin to destination. CMTM takes that problem in stride, and also benefits from using the existing Trainz U/I to display car tracking information. I don’t have to jump from one program screen to the other to run the system.
    • Are there certain rules that you use when making your own gameplay?
    I use Enhanced Interlocking Towers, Mission Codes, Schedule, Portal, and Weather rules in my routes.
    • How do you use commodities in your sessions?
    I use commodities as a part of the CMTM system.
    • Do you only use Quickdrive? (and why?)
    I rarely use Quick drive. Mostly for testing sessions and routing.
    • How much AI traffic do you like in your sessions?
    Appropriate levels for the route, and not too much to cause jams or get in the way of my own car forwarding fun.
    • Have you tried multiplayer? (What did you like/dislike?)
    Nope. I prefer single player.
    • Anything else you'd like to throw in to the discussion.
    I would pay extra for a more user friendly, integrated and supported, car forwarding system such as CMTM. It is the whole reason I got into trains, Trainz, and model railroads.

    Also for the post above that reported that CMTM does not work because of the changes to QuickDrive, that is true if you try to use QuickDrive along with CMTM in the same session, as I recall. Removing the QuickDrive rule allows CMTM to work as intended and I have used substitute rules to do the things that QuickDrive allowed. I believe either Dap or Pguy can elaborate better than me on these points. Again, I have CMTM working fully in TANE SP3 routes with no limitations.
    Last edited by jbaxter1964; August 17th, 2018 at 12:21 PM.

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