Trainz and "Gameplay" - Feedback thread

I seldom use built-in routes or sessions, preferring to continue to develop the route I began to build in 2004.

This route now has about 150 consists, all running simultaneously and all under AI. Any train can be jumped into and driven manually should I choose to but mostly I just ride with a train letting AI do the work.

However, it is not Trainz AI, but my own AI which I have written specifically for that route layout. Because it is tailor made for the route it will run for hours without failing. Writing the script for that takes most of my time and gives me most enjoyment out of trains. (Well apart from maybe when a new issue of Trainz makes my script not work! :hehe

To my mind it is the ability to be able to build content which will hook into the main Trainz program which makes Trainz a cut above other train simulators. Please retain that ability for future Trainz issues! If the program were ever to become ‘closed’ that would be the end of Trainz for me.

Boat

To my mind it is the ability to be able to build content which will hook into the main Trainz program which makes Trainz a cut above other train simulators. Please retain that ability for future Trainz issues! If the program were ever to become ‘closed’ that would be the end of Trainz for me.​

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I'm with the kind Sir above I love the game for being able to make what I am able to and bring it into the game.
I have grabbed sum routes from the DLS but it is like trying to find a needle in a haystack with the amount of rubbish on there I mainly check them out too see how a route should be made as I can not build a route to save myself.
I do not spend much time in game driving as I'm still looking for that perfect route that maybe one day I can produce myself instead of waiting for it to be made.
Tane has come along way and I hope the next instalment is even better as long as the community can still produce content for it would be the biggest point for me other then that I think your doing a pretty good job.
Cheers Mick.

Tony_Hilliam said:

. . .
Rather than run a survey, we wanted to start a discussion thread to hear all about your "gameplay" preferences in Trainz. By gameplay, we mean interacting with a train, or multiple trains in Driver.

Some things to discuss include:

• Is there a particular built-in session that you like? (and what makes this one special?)
• Is there a session on the DLS that you enjoy?
• If you create your own sessions, what is a typical set-up? (e.g. do you use navigation points?)
• Do you only ever drive a single train or do you like to jump from one to another?
• Do you use CMTM (Car Movement and Traffic Management System) ? Or perhaps model railroad card systems?
• Are there certain rules that you use when making your own gameplay?
• How do you use commodities in your sessions?
• Do you only use Quickdrive? (and why?)
• How much AI traffic do you like in your sessions?
• Have you tried multiplayer? (What did you like/dislike?)
• Anything else you'd like to throw in to the discussion.

. . .

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1 - Being mostly interested in passengers operations with a lot of AI trains following some defined timetables, and as from my knowledge there are no builtin routes and sessions matching this criteria, I currently don't use builtin routes and sessions, but my own routes and sessions with a lot of passengers AI traffic regulated using EITs, MCM and STT.
2 - Same answer as 1. I did not find on DLS any routes and sessions implementing heavy AI passengers traffic using ITs or EITs ...
3 - For my own session, I use the default rules with Quick Custom Hud replacing the default hud, and with EIT manager, Mission Code Manage and Stops and TimeTables Manager to easily schedule the operations
4 - I use only AI train, but I switch from one train to another during the session to have different views of the current AI passengers traffic
5 - Being more interested in passenger traffic than in goods traffic, I don't use CMTM ...
6 - should not be a surprise, I use in my own session a subset of all my own developed rules, available on DLS
7 - I don't use commodities, except passenger loading and unloading at stations
8 - There are two things designated as Quickdrive in Trainz : QuickDrive as a method of switching easily from surveyor to driver without returning to the main menu, and the QuickDrive rule to easily set at run time some environment parameters. I use both; First one to test under driver some modifications done to the session under surveyor. And second for the quick drive rule, mainly to change at run time the set of available driver commands or to add more drivers, which can only be done at run time using the quick drive run interface. Being able to change some parameters at run time, without the need to return back to surveyor, is important for me.
9 - how many AI trains. usually between 10 to 40.
10 - Never tested multiplayer and not really interested in such feature.

Running only AI trains, I am of course interested in AI enhancements. And as a scripter, I would be much interested if a new AI was written, with a default behaviour, but with with scripts calls to open the AI function so that by script you can adapt the AI to your need.
I think that one of the current AI problem is that it has no options. It try to take the shortest way (even if it will go through sidings) and you currently cannot change this behavior. On my last car, I have a GPS that will propose a default route but also 2 alternate routes, and will take care of my preference (quickest route, shortest route, with or without motorways, ...). I dream of a new Trainz, where you can specify for tracks if it is a main express track, a secondary commuters track, a siding track, ... and where you could request for a train an AI DriveToDestination giving a preference on the type of track to follow ... And if you add the opportunity to have like for ITs some AI listeners rule, called to confirm or change the default choices, you could have both a robust default AI but also a very versatile one that can be improved using some listeners rules.

The versatility of what you can do using scripts in Trainz is one of the great advantage of Trainz that other simulators don't have. And you can have a robust default behavior that meets the needs of most trainzers, and also still offer the opportunity to add some listeners rules able to tailor the behavior to specific needs for some other trainzers.

Only my opinion.
Regards.
Pierre.

I spend virtually the whole time in Surveyor and use Quickdrive to check out various aspects of the route. I never use built-in sessions as I want to go where I want to, when I want to and points/reward systems are of absolutely no interest to me whatsoever. I do create my own sessions, but apart from a blank session used to setup defaults for the route, these usually end up as having only one or two AI trains because they rarely do what one expects (ie AI trains take the wrong route, get stuck at signals for no apparently good reason, and frequently fail to stop at passenger enabled stations). Furthermore their is no proper timetabling system. Generally, I only drive one train, and only occasionally a second train. I have not tried multiplayer and do not intend to, as I don't believe Railway systems are inherently suitable for multiple control. (Unless the intention is to simulate some of the turf wars during the Railway building era of the 19th Century).


Regards


Mike

• Is there a particular built-in session that you like? (and what makes this one special?) Don't do sessions

• Is there a session on the DLS that you enjoy? no
• If you create your own sessions, what is a typical set-up? (e.g. do you use navigation points?) Don't create sessions
• Do you only ever drive a single train or do you like to jump from one to another? Usually run a single train when testing a route, but run several myself if I'm in the mood to operate trains.
• Do you use CMTM (Car Movement and Traffic Management System) ? Or perhaps model railroad card systems? Neither
• Are there certain rules that you use when making your own gameplay? No
• How do you use commodities in your sessions? I use commodities but not in sessions
• Do you only use Quickdrive? (and why?) yes, I like watching trains run, no running them particularly,
• How much AI traffic do you like in your sessions? none
• Have you tried multiplayer? (What did you like/dislike?) no, don't do multiplayer with any game
• Anything else you'd like to throw in to the discussion. I mostly like creating my own routes/layouts in surveyor and occasionally running trains on them like I used to back when I had a model railroad.

As per my previous hobbyhorse. N3V need to offer the functionality MSTS, TS20xx and Zusi do in regard to setting up a timetable or scenario/activity, the AI route setting ahead of your train (not having to be done by the player as they go), resolving conflicts with other traffic and keeping check against your progress. This could even mark the beginnings of a career type mode including marks for train handling, speed control and obeying signals.

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This is what EIT (interlocking towers) do... They set the route for you, you either get a dialogue box (when you're approaching a signal that has multiple paths) that gives you the choice of where you want to go.. or it is set up behind the scenes using rules.

It's all achievable but due to how Trainz works it's a bit different to Train Sim which is quite easy when it comes to making activities... (you just can't do much with them other than end to end). Trainz wins at this as you can have traffic running for infinity and jump in and never have a conflict.

Appreciate that Davie. However it ought to be better documented or have some sort of GUI to help set it up.

Vern said:

Appreciate that Davie. However it ought to be better documented or have some sort of GUI to help set it up.

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I'll admit the documentation for most trainz assets isn't great... that's third party content for you. but the EIT's have a GUI which is really easy to work with once you understand how they work. There is a youtube video by N3V on how to use the basic Interlocking towers, that was my starting point.
But then again, my thing is automated layouts and I spend hours and hours fiddling and readjusting schedules and then I find myself asking "can I do this?" and adding whole new layers of depth... I'm addicted. I understand most people aren't into doing this sortof thing though.

Davie_UCF said:

I'll admit the documentation for most trainz assets isn't great... that's third party content for you. but the EIT's have a GUI which is really easy to work with once you understand how they work. There is a youtube video by N3V on how to use the basic Interlocking towers, that was my starting point.
But then again, my thing is automated layouts and I spend hours and hours fiddling and readjusting schedules and then I find myself asking "can I do this?" and adding whole new layers of depth... I'm addicted. I understand most people aren't into doing this sortof thing though.

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I'm with you on this Dave. My whole route is covered by EIT's and I work to a working Timetable from 1961. But, unfortunately, as I have said in an earlier post in this thread I can't run a session over about 55 mins before I get a script 'timeout' in the built in 'Driver setup'. So this is the final blow for me in this build. Luckily I have my route saved in cdp's in each build so I will be going back to SP1 until this is resolved.

Peter

charlie3577 said:

With his permission, I'm gonna use the method of ecco to respond the questions, as this make it more clear.

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Credit where credit is due - I copied cyberdongreen's method.

pguy said:

8 - There are two things designated as Quickdrive in Trainz : QuickDrive as a method of switching easily from surveyor to driver without returning to the main menu, and the QuickDrive rule to easily set at run time some environment parameters.

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Thanks for that clarification. I couldn't understand comments that users had multiple trains running under the AI but did not use Quick Drive.

First of all, i play trainz because i can not run a real HO layout for a lot of reasons - but Trainz is more than a substitution for that.

Since you can replace loccos and rolling stock in driver - i would really appreciate the option, to do so as well with (at least) buildings - signals and : specially trackmarkers - so, that i have the opportunity to drive and build in driver - instead of always going back to surveyor and restart again then in driver. That would be fantastic.

martinvk said:

One way is to turn on the " Show performance statistics in Surveyor and Driver" (Trainz Settings in the Main Menu where you select your routes and sessions) Takes a bit of interpretation but you can see what is killing your performance since it is in realtime as various objects come into view.

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Hi Martinvk.

After reading this suggestion, I did the test. Honestly I do not know how the hell you can deduce what asset is causing problems, by looking at that multitude of data that are changing within Driver mode. I watched those numbers carefully for a long time, but I did not find any patterns that would be useful for that detection.

I must clarify that I am a user without experience or knowledge of scripting. I'm not a content creator.

That's why I say that this is an old problem that continues without solution. A standard user who just knows this game, has no way of knowing which are the assets that should not be used to avoid the fall in PC performance.

There should be some way to solve this problem, without going into deep research only available to specialists in that field.

Regards.

Hi Tony, here is my response to your questions.


Some things to discuss include:

Is there a particular built-in session that you like? (and what makes this one special?) --- No, I am reserving the use of built-in sessions for a future time in my life when I can only spare the time to do individual sessions. While I have the time to build routes and do full scale operational sessions, that's what I prefer.

Is there a session on the DLS that you enjoy? --- see above.

If you create your own sessions, what is a typical set-up? (e.g. do you use navigation points?) --- Portals emitting AI trains at regular intervals, which then load a route for themselves using the Schedule Library/Copy Commands From combination. I make (made) heavy use of the Path Control/Select Path combination, but it looks like I will have to convert everything over to interlocking towers. AI schedules require sufficient Trackmarks to ensure they stay on the correct trackage as previously discussed with you in this thread here https://forums.auran.com/trainz/sho...er-TS10-TANE-conversion&p=1619110#post1619110 All this AI goes into a "basic session" which stays with the route (along with static item session settings as required), and when I want to run an operations session I simply copy the basic session, change it's name, add the wagons I need for the operating session, then start operating. If less AI is required, I simply adjust the time interval between portal train emissions to suit - I really wish Portals had a builtin feature to only operate between certain times however!

Do you only ever drive a single train or do you like to jump from one to another? --- Both. Some of my operating involves moving a single train a long distance. Other operating sessions require moving thousands of wagons so most time is spent shunting yards and last mile work.

Do you use CMTM (Car Movement and Traffic Management System) ? Or perhaps model railroad card systems? --- I use my own set of spreadsheets for required wagon movements. I've looked at commercially available wagon movement software but have not found one that suits my style of operating. CMTM is too hard to implement on very large routes. The Car Tagger rule (which apparantly no longer works on SP3) would be the most useful ingame wagon movement tool. Something like this should be built in!

Are there certain rules that you use when making your own gameplay? --- Not sure what you mean here. If you are talking about session rules, then yes - I have a standard Rule setup for my basic session for each route I use.

How do you use commodities in your sessions? --- Commodities are the reason railroads exist, wagons are either full or empty when I move them, and this must be observed because the weight of the train is affected of course. What I DON'T do, is use active loading/unloading as this is unrealistic except in very few applications such as floodloaders at mines. Collecting a wagon full of general goods in two seconds flat on a Multiple Industry track is the stuff of 8 year olds. Commodities are either in the wagon when I (or my AI driver) arrives to collect the wagon, or they are not. I do make use of the Instant Load and Instant Unload driver commands, but make the loco wait a realistic time for this to be accomplished.

Do you only use Quickdrive? (and why?) --- It is in my basic sessions, but only for it's utility features, such as changing from DCC to Cab Control.

How much AI traffic do you like in your sessions? --- Enough so that I see another train fairly often on mainlines, which makes the whole exercise a bit more realistic.

Have you tried multiplayer? (What did you like/dislike?) --- No, and probably never will. Hobbies are meant to be relaxing, not frustrating. If I want to suffer the presence of 16 year old griefers all I have to do is play Elite Dangerous in open for a while.

Anything else you'd like to throw in to the discussion. --- Not here, you have enough to read through already !


Keep up the good work,

A71 out.

Tony

Apart from the Quickdrive question which is a "Yes", all the rest are "No".

To me Trainz is a wonderful, beyond measure, creation and facility that allows me to run my created locos and rolling stock, so my only self-made route is a circle of track of whatever gauge I am working with. Occasionally I run the DHR for old times sake. I do enjoy seeing screenshots of other peoples hard work, but doing that work does not tempt me.

Peter(narrowgauge)

ecco said:

Quote Originally Posted by pguy - There are two things designated as Quickdrive in Trainz : QuickDrive as a method of switching easily from surveyor to driver without returning to the main menu, and the QuickDrive rule to easily set at run time some environment parameters.

Thanks for that clarification. I couldn't understand comments that users had multiple trains running under the AI but did not use Quick Drive.

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There is yet a third "thing" designated "Quick Drive" which was not mentioned above:

Quick Drive - Choose your own train to drive - A default session offered with every route. I suspect that this is what Tony really meant when he asked the question: Do you only use QuickDrive? (and why?).

This explains why different users give totally unrelated answers to the question.

Trevor

derhildener said:

Since you can replace loccos and rolling stock in driver - i would really appreciate the option, to do so as well with (at least) buildings - signals and : specially trackmarkers - so, that i have the opportunity to drive and build in driver - instead of always going back to surveyor and restart again then in driver. That would be fantastic.

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I would settle for being able to place a sticky note while following my AI trains around. I often see where some additional texturing or scenery or buildings are needed and then forget the where and what by the end of the Session.

• Pause
• Write and place sticky note
• Unpause

ecco said:

I would settle for being able to place a sticky note while following my AI trains around. I often see where some additional texturing or scenery or buildings are needed and then forget the where and what by the end of the Session.

• Pause
• Write and place sticky note
• Unpause

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That's a good idea. We don't realize how many dumb things we find when running a newly created route. I write them down on scrap paper now, but used to use the built-into-Windows sticky notes to keep track of things needing fixing, but there are those that for some reason don't get noted and we forget to fix them again and again because they're difficult to find when back in Surveyor.

Thank you for starting this thread, Tony. It is really interesting to me to see all the different approaches people take to this game.

I like realistic in cab driving experiences on detailed routes. I also very much enjoy sessions that are supplied with a route, particularly ones where I am not the only traffic. I wish that more sessions were available. I can create my own, but then I lose the surprise of seeing the different traffic that I encounter.

As for the driving experience itself, I prefer mainline runs to shunting.

Some other keys for me:

- a good player locomotive with a good whistle and good cab views; the best views are just outside the cab. I often create my own, but some payware locos supply this..
- challenging driving sections with grades
- single track with multiple passing sidings and plenty of AI traffic
- routes with cameras for when I want a different view. This also lets the builder highlight aspects of a route I might otherwise miss

In TS12, the Mojave Sub was my favorite. I would love to see it fully updated in Next.

Currently, I enjoy JR's Legacy of the BN2 route. I use unportals to randomly generate traffic in both directions and enjoy driving against it. I have both Steam and Diesel sessions. This experience greatly improved when I discovered interlocking towers.

I am currently eyeing doing the same thing with the Rogers Pass route.

I love the JR and K&L collaborations with Steam locos and sessions on Coal Country and Eagle River. This is the defining Trainz experience for me.

I would like to see more sessions available for routes I enjoy. Having them as payware works for me. I am also deeply appreciative to those Trainzers who post extra sessions in freeware.

I do not care for many of the built in sessions. I do not like having the green object markers in my face all the time.

As for sessions on the DLS, I find that Hiawatha and Phil Skene are the top session writers.

I create my own sessions. I use the RANKED items that I pulled from a Kickstarter session. The speeding and derailing and variable setups, set up for a ranked session.

I run sessions in both ways. Depends on the route. I either have 1 train I drive with AI doing other things or I drive them all. One train gets logs and takes them to the lumber yard. Another will be for picking up the wood and moving it somewhere. Then another to get the sawdust.

I could never get CMTM to work in TANE.

I use a lot of different rules depending on what I want the train to do. This is the most powerful part of the editor, rules.

I love interactive industries, I only use them or make them into usable with a MIN.

I never use Quick Drive. I create or edit a session and exit out of surveyor and run the session clean. Had a few problems testing a session using Quickdrive so I stopped that real early in my career with TANE.

I put a little AI traffic in just so I do not feel "alone" on the route. They take a lot of testing time though so I do not go overboard like some people with 150 AI trains. I do not want to use my time for something that large.

I think multi player is the stupidest thing that came along in a trainsim. I can not beleive how many people cry for it. What good is it?

I have a hard copy of the original Trainz from Day 1 while I was still using MSTS. That program was so bad I never came back until I saw a vid from Harold about TANE while it was still in beta. As far as I am concerned now, there is nothing better that TANE. It will even be better when we get a hotfix "soon" for the recent bugs that creeped in on the save files, the color of KUIDs in surveyor and a few other minor things that mean a lot to route builders and session creators.

The best thing about TANE is, it is FUN!