precast concrete track: a long cry from John Henry and his hammer

J

JonMyrlennBailey

Active member
I can see where concrete ties have a big disadvantage: on nostalgic railroad lines with steam trains, vintage Pullman heavyweights and vintage diesel engines. Track just wouldn't look aesthetically pleasing or period-correct without old-fashioned wood holding the rails in gauge with steam locomotives chugging over them. Unless somebody can invent concrete ties with simulated wood-grain look especially for nostalgic purposes. It's purely a cosmetic thing. Nostalgic rail also needs to be jointed with side plates and bolts (or rivets?) and not continuously welded for sound aesthetics well.

It's truly amazing how flexible steel rail is. Has steel rail always been as flexible now as it was in 1850? How would they ever form rail into curves if it weren't for rail flexibility?

For concrete ties trying to look like wood ties, they could probably mold the wood grain texture onto the surface of the concrete ties then dip them in a certain brown stain or use a special paint to have a wood look.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4IjfJwVlv8
 
JonMyrlennBailey said:
It's truly amazing how flexible steel rail is.
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There was a TV series about Alaska railways which showed them laying replacement track in single pieces up to several hundred yards in length. That rail was bending like spaghetti as it was unloaded from a slow moving train onto the track side. It didn't look like it would support an HO train never mind a mile long cargo train.
 
JonMyrlennBailey said:
I can see where concrete ties have a big disadvantage: on nostalgic railroad lines with steam trains, vintage Pullman heavyweights and vintage diesel engines. Track just wouldn't look aesthetically pleasing or period-correct without old-fashioned wood holding the rails in gauge with steam locomotives chugging over them. Unless somebody can invent concrete ties with simulated wood-grain look especially for nostalgic purposes. It's purely a cosmetic thing. Nostalgic rail also needs to be jointed with side plates and bolts (or rivets?) and not continuously welded for sound aesthetics well.

It's truly amazing how flexible steel rail is. Has steel rail always been as flexible now as it was in 1850? How would they ever form rail into curves if it weren't for rail flexibility?

For concrete ties trying to look like wood ties, they could probably mold the wood grain texture onto the surface of the concrete ties then dip them in a certain brown stain or use a special paint to have a wood look.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4IjfJwVlv8
Click to expand...

All of your astute observations ... Never cease to totally amaze me, and they leave me absolutely dumbfounded ... As if ... really ... they should mold the wood grain texture onto the surface of the concrete ties then dip them in a certain brown stain or use a special paint to have a wood look, a cosmetic thing. Nostalgic rail also needs to be jointed with side plates and bolts (or rivets?) and not continuously welded for sound aesthetics well, just for us nostalgic railfans ... Yeah ... Right
http://www.gifbin.com/bin/062010/reverse-1275389857_naked-gun-facepalm.gif
 
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Actually, come to think of it, real old-fashioned wood should be on tracks for nostalgic train service. The devil with other tie materials on historical or excursion roads altogether. The concrete ties are OK for those wingless jetliners on rails. Real wood makes it all good.
 
JonMyrlennBailey said:
Actually, come to think of it, real old-fashioned wood should be on tracks for nostalgic train service. The devil with other tie materials on historical or excursion roads altogether. The concrete ties are OK for those wingless jetliners on rails. Real wood makes it all good.
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So this brain aereophagenic gaseous expulsion thread, quickly thought up and posted at 2:17 AM, is now obsolete, and you have now changed your mind thinking a whole 180 degrees ? And "real old-fashioned wood ties should be on tracks for nostalgic train service, and historical or excursion roads"

Where exactly are these welded rail, concrete tie, "nostalgic train service, and historical or excursion roads" ? ? ?

As for the EBT, SRR, WK&S, C&T, D&S, GCN Rwy, Mt Washington COG Rwy, W&W RR ... these (nostalgic train service, and historical or excursion roads) already have, and have always had, "real old-fashioned wood ties", and have 40' jointed rail ... all for your own enjoyment , sound effect, and railcar car rocking, ambiance

whitburncolliery said:
There was a TV series about Alaska railways which showed them laying replacement track in single pieces up to several hundred yards in length. That rail was bending like spaghetti as it was unloaded from a slow moving train onto the track side. It didn't look like it would support an HO train never mind a mile long cargo train.
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That wasn't "Rubber Rail" ... it is continuous welded rail, and is as strong, or stronger than, old 40' rail sections
 
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Wood was used for close to, if not a bit longer than 200 years two reasons:

1) Easily available and inexpensive.

2) More flexible and giving for the terrain and weather conditions.

I'm sure they would have used cast concrete, or even plastic, had it been available back in the early days, but instead some of the earliest railways in the USA dating back to the 1820s, the Granite Railway in Quincy MA and Boston and Lowell, were built using quarried granite sleepers with iron rails, fishplates, locomotives, and wagons imported from Great Britain. The thinking was that stone was better than wood because it wouldn't sink into the mud and was more resilient to the weather changes. This proved, however, to work fine for the short Granite Ralroad, but not for the more extensive Boston and Lowell.

The Boston and Lowell was charted around 1829/1830 and built using the same technology. This 35 mile railway was double tracked from the beginning with the granite sleepers. They too imported some big expensive locomotives and wagons. The railway was quite successful from the beginning because it ferried goods and commuters to and from Lowell and Boston, with Lowell being a manufacturing city. The commute was fairly quick, even by today's standards, and the commuting schedule of the 1830s is pretty much the same as it is today on the same line.

While the B&L built their line with granite, another railroad, the Boston and Providence, however, went with wooden sleepers. The builders of the B&L, however, scoffed at the idea because wood was too soft, made them look cheap, etc., and would sink in the muddy soil and suffer problems due to the weather. "They would never go with would", they said.

In the meantime... The B&L ran into troubles all the while the B&P chugged along without a problem. The B&L's engines were breaking down, not due to unreliable technology, but instead due to the rough ride on the very stiff inflexible tracks. As the trains rocketed back and forth between the two namesake cities, they bounced and rocked all over the place to the detriment of the locomotives and to the goods and people they were hauling.

Unlike wood, and even concrete, the granite proved to be too stiff and instead didn't follow the terrain well. The company still refused to retrofit the line and instead continued to operate with one locomotive in the shops with the other on the road. As time went on, the customers too complained about the rough ride and damaged goods, and the railroad became more of an amusement park spectacle where customers came to ride the rough rails for a thrill instead of travel.

In the end, the B&L management ate crow as they say, and rebuilt the line with rails and fishplates fashioned to wood ties.

About 15 years ago, some of the original granite sleepers were found alongside the current ROW during some drainage and track maintenance. Some others have been used as doorstops, and foundation pieces in various houses in the various towns along the line.
 
Now if we could get a realistic, low poly, 40' jointed rail, wood tie track, that has sound effects, and fishplates in Trainz ... That would be amazing !
 
I have an imaginary dream of building my own road connecting with the UP mainline line in the northern Sacramento Valley of California near Red Bluff to Eureka at Humboldt Bay and possibly an extension up to Crescent City if I were a trillionaire and could buy all the private land I needed as a right-of-way and pay enough politicians off to get permits. The train that never will really go anywhere in the physical world would have a custom standard-gauge 2-6-6-2 mallet steam locomotive reminiscent of the early Baldwin models built for logging companies in narrow gauge that would be totally new construction and one-off. I could only imagine having jointed rails and wooden sleepers on this magnificent Six Rivers National Forest standard-gauge single-track railroad that never will be on my dime or in my time on earth.

I could model this in Trainz maybe if I had a map template of northern CA I could import in. This would put my surveyor skills to the ultimate test. I would have to virtually scout for right-of-way for the logical route. I would want the town of Weaverville on the line and some river scenery for tourists on the excursion train as well. I would have both freight and passenger service. A double track line would be expensive and destroy the looks of much natural land in standard gauge as this is the land of precious natural forest and scenic beauty. There might be a few sidings along the route where two-way rail traffic can pass.
I would need a standard gauge line so rolling stock is compatible with the national RR network in America.
 
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JonMyrlennBailey said:
Unless somebody can invent concrete ties with simulated wood-grain look especially for nostalgic purposes. It's purely a cosmetic thing
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Already exists... here is a concrete patio made to look like wood:
f9ad8aea09e3be1d701b72b16322644f.jpg


It's just an added step (well a couple steps) and an added cost.
 
JonMyrlennBailey said:
I have an imaginary dream of building my own road connecting with the UP mainline line in the northern Sacramento Valley of California near Red Bluff to Eureka at Humboldt Bay and possibly an extension up to Crescent City if I were a trillionaire and could buy all the private land I needed as a right-of-way and pay enough politicians off to get permits. The train that never will really go anywhere in the physical world would have a custom standard-gauge 2-6-6-2 mallet steam locomotive reminiscent of the early Baldwin models built for logging companies in narrow gauge that would be totally new construction and one-off. I could only imagine having jointed rails and wooden sleepers on this magnificent Six Rivers National Forest standard-gauge single-track railroad that never will be on my dime or in my time on earth.

I could model this in Trainz maybe if I had a map template of northern CA I could import in. This would put my surveyor skills to the ultimate test. I would have to virtually scout for right-of-way for the logical route. I would want the town of Weaverville on the line and some river scenery for tourists on the excursion train as well. I would have both freight and passenger service. A double track line would be expensive and destroy the looks of much natural land in standard gauge as this is the land of precious natural forest and scenic beauty. There might be a few sidings along the route where two-way rail traffic can pass.
I would need a standard gauge line so rolling stock is compatible with the national RR network in America.
Click to expand...


I have done this very thing myself virtually with a number of routes I've worked on by using TransDem to generate the terrain from Satellite data. What I do is download the information, create a route in TransDEM and then import that into Trainz where I have a look around on foot in Surveyor. With the topographic lines and other information, I know where actual towns, roads, streets, other railroads, and other things are already on the route. I then plot out my route while keeping the terrain and other features, man made as well as natural, in place as best as I can.

Here's a couple of images from my the Cape Anne Regional Transit (CART) route I'm building. The terrain is real, and the railroad is fictional. There were once disconnected quarry railroads through out the region, but I made a commuter route that follows the shore and into the interior. The only extant real railroad is the B&M Rockport branch.

mSe5hCN.jpg



sFdPSNR.jpg


This can become quite a challenge as you work out the grades and curvature while creating a plausible yet fictional route at the same time. On my much bigger and quite extensive Enfield and Eastern, I have a portion of a premade Hog-generated route of the Bangor Maine area. I populated this and then envisioned a branch down to a place called Sandy Point. At the terminus of the branch is a station and small yard with a short branch running down to the waterfront to serve the industries down there.
 
JCitron said:
I have done this very thing myself virtually with a number of routes I've worked on by using TransDem to generate the terrain from Satellite data. What I do is download the information, create a route in TransDEM and then import that into Trainz where I have a look around on foot in Surveyor. With the topographic lines and other information, I know where actual towns, roads, streets, other railroads, and other things are already on the route. I then plot out my route while keeping the terrain and other features, man made as well as natural, in place as best as I can.

Here's a couple of images from my the Cape Anne Regional Transit (CART) route I'm building. The terrain is real, and the railroad is fictional. There were once disconnected quarry railroads through out the region, but I made a commuter route that follows the shore and into the interior. The only extant real railroad is the B&M Rockport branch.

mSe5hCN.jpg



sFdPSNR.jpg


This can become quite a challenge as you work out the grades and curvature while creating a plausible yet fictional route at the same time. On my much bigger and quite extensive Enfield and Eastern, I have a portion of a premade Hog-generated route of the Bangor Maine area. I populated this and then envisioned a branch down to a place called Sandy Point. At the terminus of the branch is a station and small yard with a short branch running down to the waterfront to serve the industries down there.
Click to expand...

Then again, John, I might find building a fictitious railroad based on real terrain over my head.
 
JonMyrlennBailey said:
Then again, John, I might find building a fictitious railroad based on real terrain over my head.
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I don't think so. Start small, have a goal or purpose for the railroad, and start building just like the real companies did. :)

My Sandy Point branch has bit of a backstory behind it which is somewhat plausible. With a bit of imagination, I set out to lay the track down along the riverside and eventually on to Sandy Point to serve the industries. From the time the thinking cap went on to finishing the landscaping, it was probably about a month's worth of track laying and tree planting. I stayed true to the roads and house placement, and winged stuff as I went along as I put in farms and more rural landscape to mix things up a bit.

Unfortunately I don't have any recent shots of this line, otherwise, I would have posted them. I need to look in my picture archives and show you at some point.
 
clam1952 said:
Latest over here is plastic sleepers made from recycled plastic that look like wood, currently being used on the Ffestiniog Railway in North Wales and probably elsewhere looking at this.

http://www.businessreport.co.uk/art...r-the-embattled-uk-plastic-recycling-industry
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I seem to recall the first few were imported from the US. Quite a lot of them on the Ffestiniog now, particularly where new point work has been constructed but also on sections that have been relaid in the last few winter works programmes. They're almost completely indistinguishable from wooden ones, the first few were laid next to the platform at Harbour station and nobody noticed until it was reported in the magazine.
 
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