Trainz "Next" (TRS19) Official Announcement
- Thread starter Tony_Hilliam
- Start date
Reading today's newsletter I'm of the opinion a number of those currently testing TRS2019 are quite impressed with the results they are obtaining. However I recall similar being said about T:ANE but many were disappointed and even today whether it has ever been delivered or not is still being discussed.
Personally I've never disliked T:ANE, warts and all, although I've cursed it many times, however I believe like others I was swayed by the hype and wrongly believed that it would run out of the box on the average home laptop of the day as TR12 and TR2010 etc. had previously.
It has already been mentioned in newsletters and on the Forum that TS2019 is graphic hungry when it comes to the latest visual capabilities, my guess is that it will be a graphic beast, that is not to say it will not be impressive but I also think it would be prudent of N3V to level the expectations and come clean soonest on how such impressions are being achieved. While surveying the computing and graphic capability of users machines may inform N3V that few currently could enjoy all the benefits of upgrading to TRS2019 in the future it is doing little to develop the desire to contemplate such upgrading.
N3V said they learnt a lot from the Kickstart programme but have they learnt anything from the marketing of T:ANE. Practically every user of the Forum can quote the ideal T:ANE setting for a given hardware specification for the best T:ANE experience. I do believe TRS2019 will be an even better experience but it will be at a cost so before we all get swayed by the hype as we did previously with T:ANE what actually will that cost be, i.e quantify in hardware terms how that experience was obtained. I accept I may not like what I hear but I will unlikely be disappointed and perhaps will defer that proposed hardware upgrade purchase to something more suited in the future. Peter
Personally I've never disliked T:ANE, warts and all, although I've cursed it many times, however I believe like others I was swayed by the hype and wrongly believed that it would run out of the box on the average home laptop of the day as TR12 and TR2010 etc. had previously.
It has already been mentioned in newsletters and on the Forum that TS2019 is graphic hungry when it comes to the latest visual capabilities, my guess is that it will be a graphic beast, that is not to say it will not be impressive but I also think it would be prudent of N3V to level the expectations and come clean soonest on how such impressions are being achieved. While surveying the computing and graphic capability of users machines may inform N3V that few currently could enjoy all the benefits of upgrading to TRS2019 in the future it is doing little to develop the desire to contemplate such upgrading.
N3V said they learnt a lot from the Kickstart programme but have they learnt anything from the marketing of T:ANE. Practically every user of the Forum can quote the ideal T:ANE setting for a given hardware specification for the best T:ANE experience. I do believe TRS2019 will be an even better experience but it will be at a cost so before we all get swayed by the hype as we did previously with T:ANE what actually will that cost be, i.e quantify in hardware terms how that experience was obtained. I accept I may not like what I hear but I will unlikely be disappointed and perhaps will defer that proposed hardware upgrade purchase to something more suited in the future. Peter
Tony_Hilliam
Trainz Plus - enjoy Trainz from just 20 cents a da
Re newsletters - check your preference in MyTrainz and submit a report to helpdesk with any problems.
We're working with the testers to identify the minimum hardware requirements for various features.
I can confirm that this system gets 20 fps in a simple 3D scene:
As you can see, at 4% of the power of a GTX 1070 card, this system is seriously underpowered.
We will be providing information related to the Userbenchmark test to give people a pretty good idea of expected frame rates with various features turned on or off.
Understandably, for everything to be turned on, you need the best hardware there is.
If you don't have the best hardware, you need to determine which features/detail sliders etc you wish to reduce to match the performance of your less-than-optimum hardware.
Users are generally reporting that there is an improvement in fps over TANE for like vs like performance, so if you are running TANE, then you will run TRS2019 fine. You may not, however, be able to enable all the new features. The specifics will be made clearer as we gather more data.
We're working with the testers to identify the minimum hardware requirements for various features.
I can confirm that this system gets 20 fps in a simple 3D scene:
| UserBenchmarks: Game 14%, Desk 57%, Work 42% CPU: Intel Core i7-4770 - 81.8% GPU: Nvidia GeForce GT 630 - 4.3% RAM: Unknown CL11-11-11 D3-1600 2x8GB - 59.4% MBD: Asus H81M-PLUS | 20 |
As you can see, at 4% of the power of a GTX 1070 card, this system is seriously underpowered.
We will be providing information related to the Userbenchmark test to give people a pretty good idea of expected frame rates with various features turned on or off.
Understandably, for everything to be turned on, you need the best hardware there is.
If you don't have the best hardware, you need to determine which features/detail sliders etc you wish to reduce to match the performance of your less-than-optimum hardware.
Users are generally reporting that there is an improvement in fps over TANE for like vs like performance, so if you are running TANE, then you will run TRS2019 fine. You may not, however, be able to enable all the new features. The specifics will be made clearer as we gather more data.
Excellent. With several months to go before the official release, I will have time to save up for an upgraded system. I suspect that my GTX 750Ti system will not cut it well enough.
So all the BS has begun all over again ah. Its good to see some have still remembered the TANE hype and build-up and the difference in their actual TANE experience when they received it and are rightly cautious of this release. I also hope N3V don't repeat the mistakes of 3 years ago either.
Tony_Hilliam
Trainz Plus - enjoy Trainz from just 20 cents a da
1. It’s true that some people had issues with TANE. It is far from true that everyone did.
2. Yes we have learned from our mistakes. We have learned that developing a brand new engine from scratch while porting an enormous code base results in lots of incompatibilities (the cause of most of the above issues).
3. We have learned that 100 people testing isn’t enough. 200 isn’t enough. You need 1000 people to get the breadth of content/routes/behaviours/operating procedures to get a reasonable cross section of our audience.
4. We’ve spent 3 years stabilising, improving, tweaking, and hardening the code. The introduction of “assertions” to provide detailed information to the programmers gas resulted in 100’s of edge case bug fixes.
5. We’ve lengthened the development cycle to 3 years to give us sufficient time to ensure a polished release.
6. We’ve improved our communication with our beta testers and been persistent in ensuring we get their content installed on our systems to replicate and resolve these edge cases.
7. We’ve learned not to bite off more than we can chew. We’re not trying to add 100 features at once.
8. We’ve reduced our overheads and enlisted more 3rd party content creators than ever before to assist our cashflow to develop the next version.
9. We’ve focused our entire team on Trainz. Nothing else.
10. I have personally been involved in every Trainz release since Trainz CE in 2002. This release has a different feel. It is at least 12 months (closer to two years) since our original release date planned. Why have we delayed release? So that it becomes the release known as “this is the Trainz I have always wanted”.
Have we reached that goal? Early feedback (long before release day) suggests we are well on track. We’re not there yet, but we’re heading very much in the right direction.
2. Yes we have learned from our mistakes. We have learned that developing a brand new engine from scratch while porting an enormous code base results in lots of incompatibilities (the cause of most of the above issues).
3. We have learned that 100 people testing isn’t enough. 200 isn’t enough. You need 1000 people to get the breadth of content/routes/behaviours/operating procedures to get a reasonable cross section of our audience.
4. We’ve spent 3 years stabilising, improving, tweaking, and hardening the code. The introduction of “assertions” to provide detailed information to the programmers gas resulted in 100’s of edge case bug fixes.
5. We’ve lengthened the development cycle to 3 years to give us sufficient time to ensure a polished release.
6. We’ve improved our communication with our beta testers and been persistent in ensuring we get their content installed on our systems to replicate and resolve these edge cases.
7. We’ve learned not to bite off more than we can chew. We’re not trying to add 100 features at once.
8. We’ve reduced our overheads and enlisted more 3rd party content creators than ever before to assist our cashflow to develop the next version.
9. We’ve focused our entire team on Trainz. Nothing else.
10. I have personally been involved in every Trainz release since Trainz CE in 2002. This release has a different feel. It is at least 12 months (closer to two years) since our original release date planned. Why have we delayed release? So that it becomes the release known as “this is the Trainz I have always wanted”.
Have we reached that goal? Early feedback (long before release day) suggests we are well on track. We’re not there yet, but we’re heading very much in the right direction.
Last edited:
daylightrain
Development Purgatory.
A quick question, is multipule source lighting something in the pipeline? I would love to have the ability to have streetlights and whatnot affect the surroundings, since right now night time is pretty barren and has been left behind in the quest for graphics.
I think Tony's comments are quite encouraging even if from the example given that only 20 fps can currently be obtained from a GT 630 graphics card in this instance. As we have come to appreciate Trainz can be many things to many Users. My preference is building routes and currently successfully achieved using my old but compact second machine with a GTX 750Ti for the purpose. True, TS12 ran somewhat smoother than T:ANE has ever done on this machine but there is little noticeable difference when building and editing routes between the two versions and in my eyes quite adequate for proving that my creations sort of look the part and function as intended during development.
I think the majority of current Trainz Users who upgrade to TRS2019 will do so for the new features otherwise it would be like re-purchasing T:ANE SP??? but perhaps after the experience of T:ANE use Users and N3V have learnt a little from each other. We appreciate more the relationship between top end graphics, FPS and the hardware needs to deliver them while N3V appreciate the Users ongoing concerns for the potential need to upgrade hardware with each subsequence new release of Trainz while fewer have the financial resources to match them. Peter
I think the majority of current Trainz Users who upgrade to TRS2019 will do so for the new features otherwise it would be like re-purchasing T:ANE SP??? but perhaps after the experience of T:ANE use Users and N3V have learnt a little from each other. We appreciate more the relationship between top end graphics, FPS and the hardware needs to deliver them while N3V appreciate the Users ongoing concerns for the potential need to upgrade hardware with each subsequence new release of Trainz while fewer have the financial resources to match them. Peter
Vals_Loeder
Banned
Did you expect N3V to post negative comments by the beta testers? You can not possibly be that naive.
Vals_Loeder
Banned
... and he needs to sell a product. You expected him to be not this positive about his bread and butter?Did you read beyond the first paragraph of the comment that you seem to have quoted in full?
Well yeah, publicizing an upcoming game entails a degree of false advertising. Just because people are saying nice things doesn't mean they're the majority. Cherry-picking comments is common for upcoming games.
I highly doubt all of the feedback was positive.
I highly doubt all of the feedback was positive.
Having worked in computer retail for nearly 20 years, I've seen some huge advances and changes in that time. Various versions of Windows both loved and hated and Trainz as well. The one thing I've noticed is disliked above all else is change. There are parallels between the introduction of a new version of Windows after a much loved one (eg . Windows7 to Windows 8 and TS2012 and T:ANE and hopefully the outcome is similar, where Windows 10 for the most part is the Windows everyone has always wanted), and a new version of Trainz. As TRS2019 is built upon the improvements to T:ANE over is lifespan, I fully expect that Tony's aim of the Trainz everyone has always wanted will come to fruition for the majority of us.
On the hardware side of things it is natural that a higher specced computer will be needed to get the best out of the new features and Tony's beta testing and benchmarking strategy is very much the right way to go. Microsoft's success with Windows insiders may have been noticed by N3V. A beneficial side effect is that it helps replace "Fear Uncertainty Doubt" with "Fear Of Missing Out"
Of course there will be people who have issues with the new version and those reluctant to change or to purchase new hardware. There will also be some assets which become faulty with tighter validation, which will also upset some, but for me anything which results in a more stable, capable and realistic version of Trainz is well worthwhile.
Bring it on
Cheers
Graeme
On the hardware side of things it is natural that a higher specced computer will be needed to get the best out of the new features and Tony's beta testing and benchmarking strategy is very much the right way to go. Microsoft's success with Windows insiders may have been noticed by N3V. A beneficial side effect is that it helps replace "Fear Uncertainty Doubt" with "Fear Of Missing Out"
Of course there will be people who have issues with the new version and those reluctant to change or to purchase new hardware. There will also be some assets which become faulty with tighter validation, which will also upset some, but for me anything which results in a more stable, capable and realistic version of Trainz is well worthwhile.
Bring it on
Cheers
Graeme
"Cherry-picking" favourable comments for a product is what the Marketing Dept of every organisation is paid to do. I have never seen a promotion for any product that included negative comments - except in jest. "4 out of every 5 testers loved our product, 1 out every 5 lies".
You may well be right but unless you are a TRS2019 beta tester, your comments are pure speculation, not fact.
That's what i'm saying. Even if not all the feedback is positive, the company wants their game to look good, so they pick the comments with the most praise. I'm not a TRS2019 beta tester, so yes, what i'm saying is purspeculation, but it's speculation based on what other companies have done in the past. Examples like Accolade comes to mind in cases like this.
When it comes to TRS2019, i'm staying cautiously optimistic. It seems promising...but so did T:ANE, and it was pretty bad on Day 1. It took a service pack and 4 hotfixes to get the game up to good standards. Hopefully TRS2019 will be all it's cracked up to be.
When it comes to TRS2019, i'm staying cautiously optimistic. It seems promising...but so did T:ANE, and it was pretty bad on Day 1. It took a service pack and 4 hotfixes to get the game up to good standards. Hopefully TRS2019 will be all it's cracked up to be.
Hi all,
I haven't had a lot of time to interact with the forums recently, but I saw this and felt it was worth commenting on. As some of you might know, I've also been involved with Trainz since the beginning, and I have to agree with Tony that TRS19 is something special.
Is it the pinnacle of what we can do with Trainz? Probably not; tomorrow's hardware is always faster and always brings new opportunities. Will every user be able to play with maxed-out settings from day one? No; many of you will at least need a GPU upgrade to unlock the best graphics.
But I think it's safe to say that this version is going to be very well received.
chris
Not in the sense that you mean, at least not for the upcoming release. In the long run; of course we'll continue to improve things.
Obviously, there's the usual multiple light sources (world lighting plus train spotlights) and there are improvements such as per-pixel emissive in all of the PBR materials, in addition to the "night mode" scenery. The end result can be surprisingly good, but I concur that the ability to render out large numbers of localised light sources (without requiring "night mode" and other similar techniques) would add something further.
chris
Tony_Hilliam
Trainz Plus - enjoy Trainz from just 20 cents a da
Without mentioning names, and without marketing spin, I can tell you that one of our harshest critics in the past posted "Wow! I'm impressed" on his first look into TRS2019.
You can look at it this way: It's everything TANE SP3 is + a bunch of new stuff. So in that regard, it's hard to see people who like TANE SP3 not to be impressed by TRS2019.
The naysayers expecting loads of bugs will be disappointed. The people with low spec hardware will also be disappointed that they don't get ALL of the new features, but they will get to take advantage of some of them.
The other good thing for those people is that the GPU is an easily upgraded component in most systems (not so for laptops).
You can look at it this way: It's everything TANE SP3 is + a bunch of new stuff. So in that regard, it's hard to see people who like TANE SP3 not to be impressed by TRS2019.
The naysayers expecting loads of bugs will be disappointed. The people with low spec hardware will also be disappointed that they don't get ALL of the new features, but they will get to take advantage of some of them.
The other good thing for those people is that the GPU is an easily upgraded component in most systems (not so for laptops).
Vals_Loeder
Banned
Yes, I have.
Similar threads
- Sticky