Fed up with Trainz?

stationmistress

By comparison JAFA
First off, I must admit to being a dinosaur. The reason? I still work in 2009 v41844. A route I've been working on runs with no problem. Transfer it to TS12 v61388 and already a mod has to be done. Transfer 2009 to TANE v90945 and more mods have to be done that don't work anyway. I will not be updating again, continuing in 2009 using Debug and maybe TS12 for checking even though Debug is non-existent. I realise that people want more realism and N3V is acceding to their wants or what they think is wanted.

That's me done.
 
First off, I must admit to being a dinosaur. The reason? I still work in 2009 v41844. A route I've been working on runs with no problem. Transfer it to TS12 v61388 and already a mod has to be done. Transfer 2009 to TANE v90945 and more mods have to be done that don't work anyway. I will not be updating again, continuing in 2009 using Debug and maybe TS12 for checking even though Debug is non-existent. I realise that people want more realism and N3V is acceding to their wants or what they think is wanted.

That's me done.

It's certainly your call as to which version you wish to work in. 2009 was a big step forward from earlier versions as it introduced 5m grids, bump-mapped terrain etc.

In the past ~10 years, a lot of features have been added. If you aren't interested those features, then clearly the incentive to use the newer version lessens.

I would be interested to know what "mods" you are requiring when you try to update things. Quite often, a new version of an asset is already available for download, or can be replaced with a different asset (often a much better one than the original).

I can also confirm that we're not going to see many copies of a program that doesn't have at least some of the latest graphics. Vinyl records were good in their day (certainly better than those pesky cassettes!) but have been surpassed by CDs and now digital versions. Sure plenty of people use vinyl, but the majority have moved on.
 
Don't worry stationmistress like you I'm a dinosaur and I've stuck with using TS2009 as well. I have TS2012, tried it for a while and didn't like it so went back to TS2009. I purchased TANE when it was on sale and decided I don't want to use it. I have a lot of fun with TS2009 and it does exactly what it says on the tin (an English idiom for any Americans who might be feeling confused) and I don't see why I should bother to go to the effort of attempting to transfer my layout over to a later and supposedly 'improved' version of the simulator. Layouts in TANE have an uncanny valley look to them which I don't like and with all the complaints I read on here about TANE messing up in some way I don't feel much like being persuaded to change my mind.
 
First off, the mod needed was a double track going to single with 2 sets of junctions in between. Adding an extra signal cured that problem. Another mod that has to be done is investigate trees that have moved under a bridge.

Copying 3.7 to TANE works. I have yet to completely run the route.
 
First off, the mod needed was a double track going to single with 2 sets of junctions in between. Adding an extra signal cured that problem. Another mod that has to be done is investigate trees that have moved under a bridge.

Copying 3.7 to TANE works. I have yet to completely run the route.
I can, in general, sympathize with you. While I can acknowledge the graphics improvements of TANE etc., and while I can readily believe that most trainz users are happy with TANE, I can also believe that a huge percentage of them are not creating assets. My frustration is simply the huge hours necessary to initially create a Route, the additional hours necessary to take into later versions and now , after putting a lot of hours into accommodating TANE, it is not functional from an AI operating perspective. Extrapolate those feelings over multiple routes and I am sure that you will be able to relate. I used to boot up trainz to both create and to play, every morning for about 3 hours. I haven't done anything with it for almost 3 months now. Just too disappointing. Hopefully SP3 will resolve things. We'll see very soon. Regards. Colin.
 
I was a happy TS2004 user, an even happier TS2006 user, a happy (but not quite as much) TS2009 and TS2010 user. I was "less happy" with TANE when it was first released (too many bugs) but each subsequent upgrade has made me "much happier" (although there was a "happiness glitch" with SP1 or SP2). I am now a very happy TANE SP2 HF3 beta 93104 user. In fact I consider it to be the best Trainz version/build out, ever! :)

... and while I can readily believe that most trainz users are happy with TANE, I can also believe that a huge percentage of them are not creating assets. My frustration is simply the huge hours necessary to initially create a Route ...

Not so, I have created more assets since TANE came out than I created for any previous version. I spent countless hours, days, months even, creating routes and sessions in all the previous versions of Trainz and continue to do so in TANE, so nothing much has changed time-wise. One difference is that I find TANE noticeably faster when working in Surveyor than TS12 and this makes it much more enjoyable to use, and I have run the "side-by-side" comparison tests to confirm that speed assessment.

What has changed in TANE is the extra features such as better message options, navigation points, rules, etc and the far better appearance of your routes because of shadows, water reflections, etc.

After following all the "teaser" newsletter articles and videos of the new upcoming features from N3V, I say bring on Trainz 2018/NEXT
 
First off, I must admit to being a dinosaur. The reason? I still work in 2009 v41844. A route I've been working on runs with no problem. Transfer it to TS12 v61388 and already a mod has to be done. Transfer 2009 to TANE v90945 and more mods have to be done that don't work anyway. I will not be updating again, continuing in 2009 using Debug and maybe TS12 for checking even though Debug is non-existent. I realise that people want more realism and N3V is acceding to their wants or what they think is wanted.

That's me done.


You aren't the only TRS1010 dinosaur around, don't worry about that. I recently made the jump all the way from v41844 to TANE SP2, expecting to not be convinced to stick with it. There were problems, to be sure. Besides the usual mountain of repair work to assets, my best and largest route no longer operates because it makes very heavy use of the SCHEDULE LIBRARY and associated driver commands, and the PATH RULE and associated driver commands. These have failed in TANE for various reasons (on this very large route anyway), but they worked fine in TRS2010. Go figure.

If SP3 doesn't fix this it will take months to re-imagine the whole operating scheme of the route. I'm hoping Tony has decided to put a cure in for those many users who use those commands heavily.....................

Having agreed with you on the troubles upgrading can bring, there are many upsides to upgrading too. Imagine having a CONTENT MANAGER that can actually handle pretty much anything you throw at it without a crash and burn ! That was just a pipe dream with TRS 2010, but N3V finally nailed it. CC in TANE is comparatively a dream to use. As to frame rate, as long as your hardware is up to running a 64 bit program and graphics, and your install is on an SSD, TANE maintains a really good framerate too, so the driving experience is better at low track speeds. It would be better at ALL track speeds if the "swaying motion" could be set to near zero for high speed trackwork. I assume (hope) this oversight will be fixed in SP3. I could go on with comparisons, but the subject has been done to death elsewhere.

As a fellow dinosaur who made the jump, I'm now mostly glad I did.
 
TS2010 was probably the pinnacle in terms of content included but is very dated now and doesn't play well with Windows 10 and modern graphics drivers.

TANE in its SP1 HF4 iteration is actually quite good, the biggest issue to me is that updates rather than being confined to essential fixes are interfering with core functionality so that assets which worked fine in earlier versions no longer do so. Then the content creators get blamed for not updating their stuff to current standards! There is the worry now that Trainz consists of what is known in the trade as "spaghetti code" - such that it becomes more difficult to bug hunt or a fix for one item breaks several others. A recent example on browsing the beta thread is the latest iteration trashed procedural track - a key component and selling point of TANE (apart from the lack of diamond crossings ;) ). With a competent programmer and documented well structured code, that shouldn't be happening and certainly squished before it reaches public beta.

Personally I am currently blowing hot and cold on Trainz. The dilemma for me is that - with exceptions as listed in my "What's TRS2018 bringing... " thread, is that Surveyor combined with Transdem is actually very bloody good at what it does. We have a catalogue of assets on the DLS none of the other sims can even touch. Where the game continues to lack somewhat is the driving experience. It also requires stability. A version that stays broadly as it is, other than essential bugfixes and that service packs and particularly hotfixes are not used as a means of introducing new features or changes that break existing systems.
 
my best and largest route no longer operates because it makes very heavy use of the SCHEDULE LIBRARY and associated driver commands, and the PATH RULE and associated driver commands. These have failed in TANE for various reasons (on this very large route anyway), but they worked fine in TRS2010. Go figure.

If SP3 doesn't fix this it will take months to re-imagine the whole operating scheme of the route. I'm hoping Tony has decided to put a cure in for those many users who use those commands heavily.....................

Have you updated all the rules and commands for Tane? Schedule library works fine with loads of schedules in it. Pguy has updated most of his rules for Tane and as far as I know the path rule is replaced by the Interlocking Towers which set the paths now. The latest beta cured a lot of the problems with commands.
 
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I agree completely with the OP. Since my principal interest is creating locomotives and rolling stock rather than watching it run, and my creations look rather nice in whatever this week's iteration of T:NG happens to be according to screenies from its users, stet. I try to keep improving my game as far as features and accuracy go, and if T:NG can't deal, I'm prepared to create work-arounds for its failings. As for routes, I'd like to create an interurban route using TS2009-compatible assets that's as fun and good-looking as Downtown Traction. Obviously, it can be done.

Or, as Adm. Gorshkov put it, the better is the enemy of the good enough.
 
To be honest, no, at the contrary, I have a great illusion of having T:ANE and TRS2018 (if it's released), as my old TS2009 doesn't render properly my own route, with continuous self-reduction of draw-distance, specially in the urban areas, although I'm a little bit aware if this has errors once i put it on T:ANE (if I finally buy it).
 
I can, in general, sympathize with you. While I can acknowledge the graphics improvements of TANE etc., and while I can readily believe that most trainz users are happy with TANE, I can also believe that a huge percentage of them are not creating assets. My frustration is simply the huge hours necessary to initially create a Route, the additional hours necessary to take into later versions and now , after putting a lot of hours into accommodating TANE, it is not functional from an AI operating perspective. Extrapolate those feelings over multiple routes and I am sure that you will be able to relate. I used to boot up trainz to both create and to play, every morning for about 3 hours. I haven't done anything with it for almost 3 months now. Just too disappointing. Hopefully SP3 will resolve things. We'll see very soon. Regards. Colin.

I'm with Colin here. I spent a great deal of time developing some very large routes in TS 2012, spent a huger (is that even a word?) amount of time getting things working in pre-SP2 TANE (such as replacing vanished tracks, fixing track joints that turned into doglegs, etc.) and converting over to the Enhanced Interlocking Towers. But after trying each of the major service packs/hotfixes since then and finding things broken all over again (such as finding massive numbers of duplicate names for junctions showing up which of course breaks EIT paths), and also finding the night-viewing-ruining-flashing junction arrows (which can't be turned off) still unfixed, I have left Trainz untouched for all practical purposes since SP1HF4 came out. Like Colin I'm hoping for SP3 to at least make TANE usable again, but am not holding my breath.

--Lamont
 
As I said guys, stability is the key. When people are spending weeks or even months creating a route or asset, you need to know it is at least going to still work in the core version you started in and not nerfed by non roll-backable intermediate changes.
 
To be completely honest I haven't read anything here to convince me that TANE is worth giving any space on my hard drive to. I know TS2009 has its short comings, but I can build nice looking routes with it and things work in the way I want them to. And I don't have to worry about some update repair patch making a mess of what I've done. It all sounds a bit like Windows 10 actually with updates suddenly stopping things from working, but then I don't use Windows 10 either.
 
What I'm fed up with is people putting high quality content on their personal sites. Just for those sites to go abandon after a year or two then their content gets lost forever...
 
I'm also a trainz 2009 dinosaur and have to say i love it.
The downside is, a fair bit of my rolling stock content is showing as red. but i'm still happy with what i have available.
I could easily play with this for another 10 years no problem.......so many ideas which trainz 2009 can accommodate.

I'm hesitant to upgrade because this version delivers in every way......in my opinion.
The biggest downside is there is so much great content on the DLS that is not compatable.
 
I have completed a run in my route transferred to TS12 from 2009. A single track tunnel was missing and a BR Class 50 also, both built into 2009 and on in TS12. Both have stacks of errors but still work after transfer from 2009.

Yet to be done is replacing Speedtrees and other trees splines
 
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I have completed a run in my route transferred to TS12 from 2009. A single track tunnel was missing and a BR Class 50 also, both built into 2009 and on in TS12. Both have stacks of errors but still work after transfer from 2009.

Yet to be done is replacing Speedtrees and other trees splines


One thing I have some disdain about Trainz 2012 and such as that some of the stuff that comes with the game in the older versions (e.g. the C-41, the U2g) don't come with it, and if you're not on the right computer for it, the game can be rather excruciating to run
 
I have completed a run in my route transferred to TS12 from 2009. A single track tunnel was missing and a BR Class 50 also, both built into 2009 and on in TS12. Both have stacks of errors but still work after transfer from 2009.

Yet to be done is replacing Speedtrees and other trees splines

You can probably download the built-in TS2009 assets you need from the DLS. N3V has put them up there. This will happen eventually with TS12 assets for use in T:ANE.
 
Yet to be done is replacing Speedtrees and other trees splines
I never actually figured out exactly what a 'Speedtree' was and why they were supposed to be better.

The biggest downside is there is so much great content on the DLS that is not compatable.
Nearly everything for TS2010 and around 85-90% of assets for TS2012 can be easily converted to work with TS2009.
 
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