Introduction and Looking to collaborate and bring out content

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PegasusDesigns said:
We're back finally. Just wanted to say thank you to a few people.

Firstly since our last posting there's been an issue with reCAPTCHA and hence why I couldn't post all these days. I got in touch with N3V and they managed to sort out the issue within a few days. So thanks to N3V for their help.

I'd also like to thank the people who kindly supported my small dream. About 3-4 people both on and off this forum have been very kind and offered support with both the texturing and coding. I will be posting images of our CAD work over the next few days.

Regarding the game itself, we don't really favour any one game. We'd like to release our content on both of the well known platforms. With regards to N3V's products, as I made it clear before I didn't much approve of T:ANE as I personally feel that T:ANE was a huge let down thanks to the game having content which was in my eyes of different standards. That was the deal breaker for me personally. Those are my views and I am not enforcing my opinion upon anyone. I did want to release the content for TRS2012 but as many people pointed out support for the game was going to end soon. However every cloud has a silver lining and with that I was told that the next version of T:ANE which was T:ANE Nxt if my memory serves me right is due for release soon. I have my hopes up and based on the game I will surely buy it and have our content released for the upcoming version from N3V. As the situation stands, I won't be parting with any hard earned cash for TRS2012 as the game's support will cease shortly and surely not T:ANE for reasons I already listed.

Watch this thread over the next few days, I'll have some CAD images posted soon. Some people have their doubts and I can't change their opinion. I'm not scamming anyone. As for those with their wild assumptions I've just decided to ignore them. I have faith in my 3D modelling abilities and the people who've offered to help me are good at their work too.

Regards,
PD Team.
Click to expand...

You are aware that 3D printing uses different techniques than TANE? TANE relies far more on textures and lower poly counts. Buy a license if you are serious.

Cheerio John
 
Here's some of my work, over the last couple of weeks during my free time I've been getting immense amounts of help from quite a few kind people out there. I've added a few images of just some of the things I've been doing.

The WRB Railbus is the first model I'm hoping to get on a couple of Train Simulator platforms (T:ANE Nxt included, if it scrubs up well)

https://www.flickr.com/photos/swrfan/41531752361/in/dateposted-public/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/swrfan/41490948912/in/dateposted-public/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/swrfan/26662515527/in/dateposted-public/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/swrfan/40819068354/in/dateposted-public/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/swrfan/41490948712/in/dateposted-public/

Got a couple of exams to finish, once that's done I'll be getting along much faster with the modelling parts of it and it will be passed on for texturing and coding.

Once again thanks to all those kind folk who've offered their help.

Regards!
 
johnwhelan said:
You are aware that 3D printing uses different techniques than TANE? TANE relies far more on textures and lower poly counts. Buy a license if you are serious.

Cheerio John
Click to expand...

Yes, I'm very well aware of that. If the "license" you refer to is for T:ANE/TRS2012 then that has nothing to do with me being serious of not. I've been very clear before, I will not spend hard earned money on a product that doesn't have a set standard within the game itself. I will wait for this so called T:ANE Nxt to come out and based on how it turns out, I'll buy it. I know there's many serious Trainz veterans out here who support the game fully, but opinions are opinions and everyone has the right to have one. I was deeply disappointed in the promised eye-candy from T:ANE and what actually turned out. Even after all the updates, it's nowhere near the promised eye candy we were to get. N3V have the ability to make something good, I'm just waiting for that good product. I do favour any one game, I'm 100% open to trying them all and making content with others for these games.
 
I will wait for this so called T:ANE Nxt to come out and based on how it turns out, I'll buy it. I know there's many serious Trainz veterans out here who support the game fully, but opinions are opinions and everyone has the right to have one. I was deeply disappointed in the promised eye-candy from T:ANE and what actually turned out. Even after all the updates, it's nowhere near the promised eye candy we were to get. N3V have the ability to make something good, I'm just waiting for that good product.
Click to expand...

Remember:

1) N3V provides the game.

2) The Community provides the content.

Many people will take offense with what you have said here.

The initial release of T:ANE made use of old content and much has been released since then. There is also the backwards compatibility which means much old content is still being used.

blM7pmb.jpg



What version are these assets?
 
PegasusDesigns said:
I've been very clear before, I will not spend hard earned money on a product that doesn't have a set standard within the game itself.
Click to expand...

Then set the standard. N3V builds the game and the platform that we then all decide to build our own worlds in. How can you genuinely say that the Healesville route or the C&O Hinton Route isn't "pretty" enough? And that's before even touching anything third party or Payware...

You're just wasting everybody's time with your rubbish now.
 
A good idea would probably be to go away and come back if and when you actually buy a version of trainz and start to produce content. or not:eek:
 
PegasusDesigns said:
Yes, I'm very well aware of that. If the "license" you refer to is for T:ANE/TRS2012 then that has nothing to do with me being serious of not. I've been very clear before, I will not spend hard earned money on a product that doesn't have a set standard within the game itself. I will wait for this so called T:ANE Nxt to come out and based on how it turns out, I'll buy it. I know there's many serious Trainz veterans out here who support the game fully, but opinions are opinions and everyone has the right to have one. I was deeply disappointed in the promised eye-candy from T:ANE and what actually turned out. Even after all the updates, it's nowhere near the promised eye candy we were to get. N3V have the ability to make something good, I'm just waiting for that good product. I do favour any one game, I'm 100% open to trying them all and making content with others for these games.
Click to expand...

I'm trying to think of a polite way to say this.

TANE and Trainz doesn't work in the way you'd like it to. There is far more to creating content for TANE than creating an untextured box. The community basically has built the content. It even built the exporter that most of us use to export from Blender. Some is payware, some is freeware. Realistically very few make money on payware. With roughly 500,000 models available for free on the DLS there is less demand for payware than for other sims.

Cheerio John
 
Hello everyone again, please be advised that if you are helping this person, they are taking what you give them, then producing real life train models and selling them, I doubt they will ever be a Trainz member.

Please see here if they are using your assets to profit from you https://www.shapeways.com/shops/pegasusdesigns

I don't think they are going to share their profits with you, as they won't even buy TANE. This person or persons are using you. If I had the power I would close this thread and bury it as spam.
 
Christopher824 said:
John, you can use Blender to 3D print, this poster is doing such a thing, see here https://www.shapeways.com/creator/tools
Click to expand...


When preparing something for 3D printing you don't need to take into account how long something takes to render. For example each rivet would be done in the mesh. For TANE you need something that will render very quickly 60 frames per second? As a result you put the minimum amount of detail in the mesh and rely very heavily on textures and tricks like normal mapping to show the detail. Also you use Level of Detail which is completely foreign to physical 3D modellers. Add in the need for engine specs etc. and it really is a different world.

I work with some physical railway modellers and the creations I produce in Blender have nowhere near enough detail in the mesh for them and the Blender models they commission are very much more detailed. The only problem is they take a lot longer to render. Essentially its two different worlds.

Cheerio John
 
johnwhelan said:
When preparing something for 3D printing you don't need to take into account how long something takes to render. For example each rivet would be done in the mesh. For TANE you need something that will render very quickly 60 frames per second? As a result you put the minimum amount of detail in the mesh and rely very heavily on textures and tricks like normal mapping to show the detail. Also you use Level of Detail which is completely foreign to physical 3D modellers. Add in the need for engine specs etc. and it really is a different world.

I work with some physical railway modellers and the creations I produce in Blender have nowhere near enough detail in the mesh for them and the Blender models they commission are very much more detailed. The only problem is they take a lot longer to render. Essentially its two different worlds.

Cheerio John
Click to expand...

You are missing the point. They take a Blender file, then make (print) a HO model rail car. They may have to paint it, but look at the website, they are selling unpainted models... They just 'Print' the HO model and sell it. If you give them a Blender file, they can literally print it and sell a HO model rail car etc. Trainz asset developers are getting ripped off.
 
Christopher824 said:
You are missing the point. They take a Blender file, then make (print) a HO model rail car. They may have to paint it, but look at the website, they are selling unpainted models... They just 'Print' the HO model and sell it. If you give them a Blender file, they can literally print it and sell a HO model rail car etc. Trainz asset developers are getting ripped off.
Click to expand...

John Whalen is right. This is really two different animals, though there is a bit of overlapping from the modeling side. For printing you have to ensure there are no missing faces or coplanar faces, otherwise, you'll end up with holes in the model or distorted surfaces. There's also the resolution limits of the printers. If you're using a high-end Stereo-Lithography printer, you'll have a higher resolution than those fusion deposit units. The resolution too does matter here as well. A very high-poly object will print of course much better than a lower resolution one, but at the cost of print time and the amount of material. Fine details have to be modeled so if you want rivets on the side of a boxcar, you need to print them out. There's no such thing as normal maps, PBX, Parallax, etc. The nubs and bumps have to be there to be seen. The problem then is the amount of plastic, which is a cost and the clean-up of the model. If a part is cleaned up improperly, this can ruin the model which will have to be reprinted.

For in-simulation use, we don't need to worry about the physically printed fine details because they can be faked by using normal maps and textures. We also have to replicate this model multiple times, at various resolutions, to produce the LOD and texture the model in multiple ways so that the textures follow the LOD. We do, however, have to watch for coplanar faces and inversed normals, because just like the physical model, we'll end up with holes.

My brother has been using a small 3d printer from Form Labs for a couple of years now. His Form-1 is used for printing out masters for his metal casting business, as well as for parts to fix things and for some prototyping. He made some replacement latches and hinges for my computer case after I knocked the door off in a clumsy ox move one day.

Before my brother got his own printer, he used the output services from one of Shapeway's clients. The first time they did a great job and his part was terrific. The next time, whoever did the printing, over cleaned the still soft plastic, and washed away the fine details. For him it was a lost job because the turnaround time was too long for the second printing, and his customer went elsewhere. Another job done by yet another printer, produced distorted parts. The people printing out the parts were told to orient the parts a particular way to ensure there were no build lines and warping. The guy didn't listen and the parts were potato chip shaped, and had the build lines as the plastic is laid down in the layers. Each of these outsourced prints not only cost a lot to produce, but the turnaround time, and sometimes the quality of the printing was hit or miss. In the end his investment of $2500 for his Form-1 has saved him a bundle.

In away making objects for a 3d game is easier, but it has its own technical requirements, but like anything it's up to the skill of the person making the object in the first place. No matter how great their printer is, their design skills, or lack thereof will make or break their models.
 
Until Pegasus Design buys & registers any version of Trainz, I personally think this chap is just taking the p_ss out of most of you. Full stop!!! He's got some of you; hook, line & sinker. (I don't buy into his excuses about buying either Tane of TS2012, or using some of the tools that are currently used to make Trainz content)...

Make something for Trainz. Buy & register either TS2012 or Tane to test it in. If it works, then either send it to the DLS as freeware, or make it available on your web site as payware.

Until then, I'm not convince that you aren't full of "poop" as far as Trainz is concerned :confused: ...

Cheers, Mac.



.
​
 
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Good Afternoon All
Personally, having experience with both 3D printing and Trainz creation, Trainz models won't work for 3D printing except in very very very rare situations. They could form a basis, but only really so far as drawings/diagrams of the real trains form a basis.


@PegasusDesigns
As several members of our community have indicated, the content you see both in Trainz and available for Trainz is generated mostly by the community over the past 17+ years. The 'standards' are ever evolving, and as such you will find a mix of content in any version of Trainz.

If you intend to work with members of the community to develop content for Trainz, then it is very fair that they expect you to own a copy of Trainz. If you do not own a copy of Trainz, then members are going to be very hesitant about assisting, especially where you are asking them to do substantial work (texture mapping, texturing, exporting, etc).

Regards
 
Christopher824 said:
Hello everyone again, please be advised that if you are helping this person, they are taking what you give them, then producing real life train models and selling them, I doubt they will ever be a Trainz member.

Please see here if they are using your assets to profit from you https://www.shapeways.com/shops/pegasusdesigns

I don't think they are going to share their profits with you, as they won't even buy TANE. This person or persons are using you. If I had the power I would close this thread and bury it as spam.
Click to expand...

After reading the entire thread, I've come to that conclusion too.

The OP states they want textures and scripts for the purpose of freeware. They failed to mention whether that's their exclusive intent or not because the web link provided clearly shows they sell models. In order to provide textures, one needs a model to apply them. Are these models provided or just the maps? If it's the latter, they'll get a half-assed result at best, because the model can't be tested by the texture creator. Are there restrictions on redistribution of those maps or models?

Conversely, if textures are provided, but with copyright and distribution exclusively for Trainz, will the OP ignore or discard them because they can't be resold. If that's the case, the creator worked for nothing, not even freeware. Or at the very least low poly, altered or otherwise pegasusdesign.com stamped models free for trains, high poly for $$ elsewhere?



Over the years, I've created a lot of reskins and mods at no cost for individuals, who greatly appreciate them because it often means something personal or nostalgic to them.

The opposite is true for the OP. I get the sneaking suspicion they're motivated to creating a massive library of variations of the same object as opposed to single undecorated models for resale. At everyone else's expense.


Subsequently, they've clearly indicated they never had, nor have any interest in Trainz itself.
 
JCitron said:
John Whalen is right. This is really two different animals...

My brother has been using a small 3d printer from Form Labs for a couple of years now... Before my brother got his own printer, he used the output services from one of Shapeway's clients. The first time they did a great job and his part was terrific. The next time, whoever did the printing, over cleaned the still soft plastic, and washed away the fine details...
Click to expand...

Shapeway's claims to have the problems hammered out for Blender, just make a model and viola... https://www.shapeways.com/creator/blender

You guys sure this don't work?
 
Christopher824 said:
Shapeway's claims to have the problems hammered out for Blender, just make a model and viola... https://www.shapeways.com/creator/blender

You guys sure this don't work?
Click to expand...

I don't know. That sounds too good to be true.

This might work for basic models which don't require high-levels of details. Given the kind of detail my brother needs, this doesn't cut it. He's printing coins and ball markers for golf tournaments with 6-8 point type on them, highly detailed logos, and custom names. There's no way of doing this with simple output and the cost would be prohibitive for 3rd-party output anyway. As I said one printer went and washed the details off his print, costing time and a job.
 
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