I am having trouble with Set Junctions Rule

I am new to it and don't understand fully how it works and how it should be set up.

My goal is:

1. put certain levers off-limits to AI
2. allow HUMAN drivers to have full control of the switches in Driver
3. allow AI trains to actually cross these junctions provided they are at a setting that allows them to continue down the main line according to their Schedules
on my main lines: the default setting for mainline junctions as installed in Surveyor is always for a path straight ahead on the main line: it's that simple.

I tried this rule and here is what happens:

AI train comes to the junction and stops: it gives a message saying something about waiting for the junction to be released or something like that: there is a padlock symbol and the junction message is that an AI train has control of the junction even though I programmed the rule to give AI no control.

This is if the junction is UNLOCKED. The weird thing is that switch is already set by default to continue down the main line with no change of the lever so what is holding AI up anyway?
There is nothing to change but AI treats this junction as if it were a red signal. Another weird thing is that every junction on my route so set has a padlock icon over it with a message that an AI train has control of it even though there is no train around.

If the junction is LOCKED it says that MANUAL control is not available.

Whether the junction is locked or unlocked there is an icon of a CLOSED padlock hovering over each and every switch.

Should the junction be set to LEFT, RIGHT, CENTER or DON'T CHANGE?

Is this rule not compatible with certain levers?

I noticed this warning: Sets the selected junctions to a specific state Warning: not compatible with Interlocking Tower Assets

I don't think I am using this content correctly. Some help would be appreciated.

Incidentally, I tried Extended Database Repair and no help.

If I can't get this thing to work as I was hoping, I will have to go back to my awkward method of speeders and invisible sidings to guard my levers.

The hokey speeder thing is the only thing I have tried that is known by me to be bullet-proof at guarding junctions from AI.

I have to admit I have no Masters of Science for Trainzology.

I have not had any problems using the Set Junctions Rule with AI and manually controlled trains.

JonMyrlennBailey said:

I tried this rule and here is what happens:

AI train comes to the junction and stops: it gives a message saying something about waiting for the junction to be released or something like that: there is a padlock symbol and the junction message is that an AI train has control of the junction even though I programmed the rule to give AI no control.
This is if the junction is UNLOCKED. The weird thing is that switch is already set by default to continue down the main line with no change of the lever so what is holding AI up anyway?

Click to expand...

There are a couple of possible answers to your problems.

1. When the junction is locked against AI control, the AI may be trying to switch it and cannot because it is locked.
2. This may be another example of the AI control bug so often complained about in the current retail release of TANE

If the junction is LOCKED it says that MANUAL control is not available.

Click to expand...

That is what happens when the junction is LOCKED.

Whether the junction is locked or unlocked there is an icon of a CLOSED padlock hovering over each and every switch.

Click to expand...

This happens to ALL junctions when they come within the control range of an AI train - they will show the padlock symbol. This indicates that the AI train now has control of that junction. This has always been the case in Trainz since the AI first appeared.

Should the junction be set to LEFT, RIGHT, CENTER or DON'T CHANGE?

Click to expand...

It does not matter.

Is this rule not compatible with certain levers?

Click to expand...

I have not used it with ALL available levers but I have not yet found one where it does not work.

I noticed this warning: Sets the selected junctions to a specific state Warning: not compatible with Interlocking Tower Assets

Click to expand...

If you are using the same lever with both the IT system and the Set Junction Rule then that may well be your answer. Do not use the same lever with both control systems.

Even when the junction is set to UNLOCKED by the Rule, the AI train still can't pass over for reasons unknown it even when set logically to allow AI to pass to the track mark directly ahead. There is no need to change the switch anyway. The only time my CNR main line switch should hold an AI train up is if it were set so the AI sees the red lantern on top of the switch stand meaning the switch is directing a path into the yard and thus blocks its path to the next track mark on the mainline. AI should not stop at this switch if it sees green on top of it.

Another thing, why does the switch give the message that AI has control of it (left mouse click on switch in Driver) when the Rule was programmed in Edit Session for AI to specifically NOT have control of it?

Just because YOU don't have issues doesn't mean others might be so lucky.

JonMyrlennBailey said:

Just because YOU don't have issues doesn't mean others might be so lucky.

Click to expand...

The problem may be that you are using build 90945. I am using build 92487. The latest beta builds are experiencing far fewer problems with the AI than your build and N3V are still making improvements for the next beta build.

I suspect though, that a complete redesign of the AI system will be needed and that may not occur until the next major release of Trainz (NEXT or Trainz 2018 or ????)

I am not using TANE. I am using TS12. 61388

JonMyrlennBailey said:

I am not using TANE. I am using TS12. 61388

Click to expand...

You should have mentioned that in your original post.

The AI is not and never has been a problem solver. It does not "think" like a human engineer or dispatcher.

One of the AI drive commands, either "Navigate" or "Drive" (I never remember which it is), will always try to find the shortest path from A to B. If that path is blocked by another train or a locked switch then it will wait until the blockage is removed. Meanwhile it will take control of and not release switches along the way. The other command has other issues.

The more AI trains you have running in TS12 and early TANE builds the more likely this is to happen. The usual workarounds is to add lots of invisible signals, lots of trackmarks and numerous uses of the "Navigate Via Trackmark" or "Drive Via Trackmark" commands. I would place a trackmark on the main past the junction to the switching yard and use one of the "Via Trackmark" commands to direct the AI away from the switching yard. Then perhaps another trackmark and another "Via" command on the other side of the yard.

My AI operations are kept very simple. Only 1 or 2 AI trains in a session and I don't use "Navigate" or "Drive" commands. I use "Autodrive" which does not set switches and I use rules (Set Junctions Rule and Set Extended Signal Rule) activated by triggers to control the paths of the AI trains.

I want 5 to 6 AI trains running on my main line at a time so I will have to probably use the only proven method known to me (in TS12 anyway) for them to hold at junction signals and leave mainline levers unmolested while they are in my use: park speeders, MOW trucks (acting as interceptor vehicles, these handy little on-track powered units are indeed recognized as ENGINES or TRAINS by TRAINZ) and such from invisible sidings out on the main line while my hand-driven trains are entering and exiting the yard while also using the trigger-activated Trigger Multiple Signals Rule.

Is there Trainz hand car content that acts also as an ENGINE?

"Un-molested" and "molested" are a very detestable "wurdz"