Sad State Of This Game

M

mcguirel

Yagottaseediss!!!!!!!!!!!
When now we have a situation where a route is free because it was in a previous version of Trainz which selling would in turn be a copyright issue, in order to actually utilize the route one must pay $40 for scenery assets, purposefully structured in this manner. This potential shift shows so much to me, and for one I am beyond surprised there is not a total uproar over this.

I leave the past where it is, but I recall so much in regards to the backlash of scenery being a purchased product it wasn't even funny yet see the total hypocrisy of recent days. With this in mind, those that to continue to line the pockets of others that demonstrate this hypocrisy just doesn't see the true realities and the much larger picture. Many in the community should look at the bigger picture with this and the detrimental shift that could occur as a result of continued support.

Additional Information: Since the assets are imbedded in the route, the true legality of this is this provider is IN FACT selling a route COPYRIGHTED BY N3V in the court of law. N3V will come up with some sort of redirect to deflect you focus on this statement, but the truth is what the truth is. These assets are included as a reference in the config of the copyrighted previous release route therefore you are paying for the use of a copyrighted remake route.
 
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Christopher824 said:
I don't agree at all.....
Click to expand...

Without any backing of fact this is your opinion which is a right of free speech, but it remains an opinion.

The title says "Remake" and if a serious class action lawsuit was pursued, in the court of law in the United States it would be a closed case even though a long battle.
Empowering this practice should be frowned upon and by purchasing the content (some of which was to be made free after Christmas and not to the date of this post), you will be creating a plague.
 
If I understand the OP's original post correctly, older Trainz payware routes are now being made available for free, however, they are not fully functional because some or all of the scenery required is still payware.
I am not a legal eagle, however, if correct, this, to me, is morally corrupt.
To advertise the route as free, but is in fact cripple ware requiring payment to run correctly is at best deceitful.
 
Okay, i'll say it again.... I don't agree at all.....

You said, quote "where a route is free"

Once it's free, it's free. Or am I missing something. If I took something that was 'Free' and then added value content to it and then packaged it into something that was free and said I am adding value content and you must pay for my added value content... please tell me where I am missing this? You are paying for the added value, not the free part.

The first sentence of your statement was that it was 'Free' so that is why I say 'I don't agree at all.....' and by the way, I will copyright that statement, and you may not resell that statement, and I am officially copyrighting this post and you may not resell it for profit. (i'm sure vBulletin has some disclaimer against this, but I will put it out there anyway..), because I just Copyrighted it.

Copyright (c) 2018, Christopher824, All Rights Reserved.
 
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mcguirel said:
With this in mind, those that to continue to line the pockets of others that demonstrate this hypocrisy just doesn't see the true realities and the much larger picture. Many in the community should look at the bigger picture with this and the detrimental shift that could occur as a result of continued support.
Click to expand...
Absolutely agree. And we now have the ridiculous situation of those making money from their creations dumping incomplete and faulty assets onto the DLS for others to repair!!

mcguirel said:
Since the assets are imbedded in the route, the true legality of this is this provider is IN FACT selling a route COPYRIGHTED BY N3V in the court of law.
Click to expand...
Assets are never embedded in a route. They are referenced from the route files and from the config. The referencing is by KUID, and there is no question of legality with respect to those referenced assets. It is up to the user of the route to find and acquire those assets. You comment will only be relevant if the route (not the assets it refers to) is subject to copyright.

Your comment might be relevant if you are you referring to a downloadbale package containing the route dependencies, but I don't think that's what you are saying.
 
McGuirel is just having a whinge about how JointedRail has done things for ages. Download the route for free (Midwest Grain, Reading and Northern, American Intermodal and now Tidewater) and buy custom content developed specifically for that (free) route. Referencing an asset in ANY payware route is technically not illegal. Sending them as a part of a payware package is. Referencing something in the config has forever been a non-issue.

It would be like developing a loco, releasing it for free, then releasing a custom cab for it for a price. No legal problems with either.

The sadder state of this game is that I just looked on the DLS yesterday. If it wasn't the thousand uploads all using the same thumbnail that put me off, then it was the mobile uploads. Get a move on N3V. Your strongest selling point is becoming an ugly abomination.
 
SailorDan said:
Your comment might be relevant if you are you referring to a downloadbale package containing the route dependencies, but I don't think that's what you are saying.
Click to expand...

That's exactly what I am saying and they are beyond just referenced in the config file, they are embedded in other files of the route which was a remake of a previously purchased route by many many many people. Under the agreement of routes in previous versions to the best of my knowledge, these routes are to be modified at least 75% and offered free on the DLS. The embedded scenery which is purchase only violates this even further. A class action lawsuit could be filed and should be filed. I do recommend many download this newly rehashed route in its current condition and I am sure you can save screenshots of the status of the route / website selling. No worries on proving ownership as the Trainz Version containing the route because this forum can easily prove this.

Let's just cut thru the chase, we all know ethically above many other factors this was absolutely wrong and if we choose to ignore this, that is our fault. Enough said. This is not because I am having a bad day, not because of this or the other as i am sure so many people will interject which is ALL NOISE. Enjoy the discussion from here as I have clearly stated what needs to be stated with actual fact to back it. This provider should be severely reprimanded for this practice and the best way to do that is hurt them in the pocket book.
 
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mcguirel said:
That's exactly what I am saying and they are beyond just referenced in the config file, they are embedded in other files of the route which was a remake of a previously purchased route by many many many people. Under the agreement of routes in previous versions to the best of my knowledge, these routes are to be modified at least 75% and offered free on the DLS. The embedded scenery which is purchase only violates this even further. A class action lawsuit could be filed and should be filed. I do recommend many download this newly rehashed route in its current condition and I am sure you can save screenshots of the status of the route / website selling. No worries on proving ownership as the Trainz Version containing the route because this forum can easily prove this.

Let's just cut thru the chase, we all know ethically above many other factors this was absolutely wrong and if we choose to ignore this, that is our fault. Enough said.
Enjoy the discussion from here as I have clearly stated what needs to be stated with actual fact to back it. This provider should be severely reprimanded for this practice and the best way to do that is hurt them in the pocket book.
Click to expand...

Okay, i'll say it again.... I don't agree at all.....

Why do you think there should be a class action lawsuit, totally out of your mind... Please remember that you are now in my copyrighted forum post, I could now take legal action.
 
Christopher824 said:
Okay, i'll say it again.... I don't agree at all.....

Why do you think there should be a class action lawsuit, totally out of your mind... Please remember that you are now in my copyrighted forum post, I could now take legal action.
Click to expand...

Please look at post #1 and look at the originator of this discussion. Validates how your comment posts within this discussion is ALL NOISE and lack a lot of knowledge.
 
Now remind me again if I use mcguirel's payware trees in a route then upload it with referencing those payware trees that is acceptable but if I reference someone else's payware that is not. There is always delete missing content and replace x with y.

Cheerio John
 
your opinions are whack. it's worth the money, IMO and your complaints have seemingly no base besides spite

nothing illicit is going on with this Tidewater Route, and it's not representative of "the sad state of this game", lol

this is absolutely no different than selling payware trees :sleep:
 
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mcguirel said:
That's exactly what I am saying and they are beyond just referenced in the config file, they are embedded in other files of the route which was a remake of a previously purchased route by many many many people.
Click to expand...
Other assets are never embedded in a route.

If you are suggesting that someone is providing a downloadable package of other people's assets potentially in breach of copyright then provide the details so that those affected can lodge the appropriate complaints. Same goes for a route that you believe was copied and republished without sufficient additional original changes to qualify as a new work.
 
"Please remember that you are now in my copyrighted forum post, I could now take legal action."

Hmmm. That's downright nasty.
 
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applegathc said:
Nice meme.
Click to expand...

Memes for sale, here??? You have to buy the tires missing in the free route.

for-sale-camouflage-ford-truck-2300-obo-4367371.png
 
Maybe it is just me but I have read this thread a couple of times now and I still do not fully understand what is going on. It took me to post #8 before I discovered (perhaps incorrectly) that this was not just another "lets bash N3V thread".

Let me see if I have this correct ... so far.

JR has released a route for free that was previously free anyway but contains payware scenery assets. I am uncertain if the original free route also contained payware or freeware assets. I am also uncertain if the payware assets now in the route are different to those (DLS or payware) assets in the original route.

Is any of that correct?

Now for my opinion piece.

If JR have added their own payware scenery assets then, based on my understandings (or lack thereof) above, I do not see the problem. I recently downloaded a route from the DLS that contained some items of payware from the Potteries Loop Line. I do not have the PLL so I do not have that payware - a major point in favour of the Bulk Delete and Replace tool.

If people want to pay for the payware that goes with any free route, then I for one will not try to stop them. I hasten to add that I will not be joining the queue (if there is a queue) but that is my choice.

As for mounting a class action legal case. The proposer of that has probably never had to consult a lawyer on a legal matter - I have and that 1 hour consultation cost me $AU1,300 - I am clearly in the wrong job.
 
pware said:
Maybe it is just me but I have read this thread a couple of times now and I still do not fully understand what is going on. It took me to post #8 before I discovered (perhaps incorrectly) that this was not just another "lets bash N3V thread".

Let me see if I have this correct ... so far.

JR has released a route for free that was previously free anyway but contains payware scenery assets. I am uncertain if the original free route also contained payware or freeware assets. I am also uncertain if the payware assets now in the route are different to those (DLS or payware) assets in the original route.

Is any of that correct?

Now for my opinion piece.

If JR have added their own payware scenery assets then, based on my understandings (or lack thereof) above, I do not see the problem. I recently downloaded a route from the DLS that contained some items of payware from the Potteries Loop Line. I do not have the PLL so I do not have that payware - a major point in favour of the Bulk Delete and Replace tool.

If people want to pay for the payware that goes with any free route, then I for one will not try to stop them. I hasten to add that I will not be joining the queue (if there is a queue) but that is my choice.

As for mounting a class action legal case. The proposer of that has probably never had to consult a lawyer on a legal matter - I have and that 1 hour consultation cost me $AU1,300 - I am clearly in the wrong job.
Click to expand...

Yeah, those lawyer types have it made worldwide. It's about the same up here too!

To add to this.... The original TPR Route, aka Tidewater Point Rail, was original part of the payware included with TRS2006 (I think), or maybe was it TS2009. Like Jointed Rail's Mojave Sub, which was included with TS12, Jointed Rail issued a new version of both. I'm sure they weren't dumb and just built the new TPR route ad hoc and put it up for sale without permission from N3V who ultimately owns the copyright on the original since that route was included as built-in payware.

The Wingersheek and Wiscasset is due out soon as well, which looks like a nice route since I used to drive the original so many years ago, and it does not look so good anymore compared to what can be done today. That route too became part of a larger route at one point that I called the WWW or Wingersheek, Wiscasset and Waterville. Anyway I read they got permission to release that one too from George Fisher, but I can't find that information at the moment.

Oh free stuff being bundled and sold. Yeah look at the sheet music out in the public domain, but no longer free in all cases. CD Sheet music, for example, buys up old manuscripts with expired copyrights and rebundles it together on CD for printout. The CDs are not free either and cost about $30.00 each and more, depending upon the collection so us Trainzers shouldn't feel left out in this regard.
 
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mcguirel said:
When now we have a situation where a route is free because it was in a previous version of Trainz which selling would in turn be a copyright issue, in order to actually utilize the route one must pay $40 for scenery assets, purposefully structured in this manner. This potential shift shows so much to me, and for one I am beyond surprised there is not a total uproar over this.

I leave the past where it is, but I recall so much in regards to the backlash of scenery being a purchased product it wasn't even funny yet see the total hypocrisy of recent days. With this in mind, those that to continue to line the pockets of others that demonstrate this hypocrisy just doesn't see the true realities and the much larger picture. Many in the community should look at the bigger picture with this and the detrimental shift that could occur as a result of continued support.

Under the guidelines of the forum, I have evaluated all angles of this post and not one is violated. Any means to lock or if this is deleted, I will by all means bring this to the attention of N3V and pursue a challenge of your abilities as a post that I made previously has since been deleted because it was the blunt truth.

Additional Information: Since the assets are imbedded in the route, the true legality of this is this provider is IN FACT selling a route COPYRIGHTED BY N3V in the court of law. N3V will come up with some sort of redirect to deflect you focus on this statement, but the truth is what the truth is. These assets are included as a reference in the config of the copyrighted previous release route therefore you are paying for the use of a copyrighted remake route.
Click to expand...

You are wrong on almost every single point you're trying to make in your diatribe. And no I am not going to explain it to you, because you already know. You're apparently very pissed off for some reason, but that in itself doesn't make your opinion right.
 
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