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Thread: UK narrow boats or barges what do we have?

  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vern View Post
    Some of the FMA retaining splines are okay but the grass doesn't really match the up to date textures we have, while Malc's walls from FR/WHR have grass that matches his textures but the grey stone looks out of place in rural Middle England. Thus a bit of a work in progress.

    As regards the canal bed, since posting above I've had some success with the MLK Scottish moorland textures - way out of context but provides a smooth muddy green brown look I was aiming for.

    Can only agree about the overgrown state of the canal banks - when the wife and I walked from Honeystreet to Pewsey along the Kennett & Avon the other week, the banks are choked with scrub, grass and reeds while the towpath itself in places had deteriorated into a muddy swamp!
    Vern, you are quite at liberty to reskin and upload anything of mine that is usable as is anyone else.
    Malc


  2. #92

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    Quote Originally Posted by parryjc View Post
    Vern,

    Creating canals and the general look of the water, which changes colour bye the way depending on where you are and what runs off the land in the way of pollutants, is really not that difficult
    Rain fall, where the rock formation is mainly of sand stone produces a reddish brown canal water whilst the Northern Stratford-upon-Avon would be a heavy dark brown.
    Chemical discharge from factories, around 1950's to 1990's coloured much of the Main Line through Birmingham an insipid green, although with the regeneration in and around Soho Loop going out towards Netherton Tunnel there has been vast improvements in water condition so much so that there is now, or so I'm told, good fishing to be had thereabouts.


    On the DLS, there are no canal side banks or general waterway courses that adequately reflect the canal side, be it town or country.
    Similarly, few and far between are decent canal bridges.


    On the plus side there is a good Narrow beam lock that will take a 72' boat, thanks to Vulcan for that one.
    And I've been recently been playing with brick relieving arches and brick construction for Canal Structures, and bridges with fire doors.


    My Warwick and Birmingham Junction Canal, a scene that is part of my Snow Hill route out to Tyseley I'm afraid might be lost. Foolishly dropped my 2 Tet. portable memory, as a result my Trainz suffered a catastrophic loss, Like annihilated.


    I can probably reconstruct a passable canal within a few days, along with tips on how to, if your interested, it will give me a break from Tyseley Double Roundhouse and Workshops.


    Cheers for now
    JP
    The various FMA arches will pass for a canal bridge at a pinch - a bit of licence as it's far easier to put a road over a straight top than a hump back bridge. Also using a bit of licence in keeping "double track" going through some of the bridges where in reality the prototype would narrow to a single boat width. There are of course a few examples of the latter from Mike10 but are dated both in terms of the road used (UTC era) and the stonework.

    The stretch I'm attempting is the GUC/Oxford Canal from just west of Braunston to Wormleighton, just short of the Banbury to Leamington line - the theory being apart from a few disused railways here and there, no "live" railways to worry about representing. Just a relaxing cruise through the Northants/Warwickshire/Oxfordshire countryside watching out for a pub where they sell Old Hookie or Marston Merrie Monk out of the wood! (No Wetherspoons!!).
    TRS 2019 Coach Class (Former Customer)

  3. #93

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    Quote Originally Posted by clam1952 View Post
    Vern, you are quite at liberty to reskin and upload anything of mine that is usable as is anyone else.
    Thanks Malc, I'll let you know if I do that.
    TRS 2019 Coach Class (Former Customer)

  4. #94

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    Quote Originally Posted by parryjc View Post
    I've owned, lived and worked, narrow beam carrying boats, both single and with butty.
    Cheers Val.
    JP
    Our paths may well have crossed in the real world then. Which boats did you have?

  5. #95
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    as it's far easier to put a road over a straight top than a hump back bridge. Also using a bit of licence in keeping "double track" going through some of the bridges where in reality the prototype would narrow to a single boat width.
    Depends which canal your on as to width of waterway under bridge holes and headroom above waterline. Different canal engineers had varied answers, but in the main the smaller the passageway under an obstruction meant cheaper construction. For that reason, most canals were built restricted to a single boats width. Can be overcome with the atlas stop go asset.

    My bridge under construction or WIP, makes an easy hump or flat. Just add your own road to the road spline ends attached to the bridge, my roadway will then change to whatever is connected to the end spline.
    The far end of your own road spline can be raised or lowered thus creating the hump or flat, or even a road much higher coming down hill to the bridge.
    Only been modelling for about twelve months so still very much learning. One problem yet to solve is how to adapt the bridge width to suit the varied widths of roads available.
    UK roads had no standard widths, just "guide lines" so anything goes really, how to accommodate all sizes is beyond my capability for the moment. I know how to do in practical terms but don't have the tech.
    The brickwork also needs distressing particularly on the tow path side where countless thousand passing ropes have scored deep groves and knocked off the edges, and many a town bridge had fire doors attached.
    If your interested in these developments email to my aol. address as I'm not too often on the forum these days:> parryjc@aol.com
    Cheers
    JP

  6. #96

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    Bridges on narrow canals are generally built at 14' wide at water level so water can get round the boat as it passes through. The Stratford is an exception, having bridgeholes barely wider than the boat an it is noticeable how much a deep drafted boat slows when passing through.

    Whilst road widths may vary, most canal companies had fairly standard designs of bridges which were the same width - and the road was narrowed to suit (not a problem with the sort of traffic found on the roads in the the late 18th century).

    In Vern's case, the Oxford had a standard design of brick bridge which would cover most of the bridges Wigrams and Wormleighton. Braunston to Wigrams is harder as some were rebuilt by the OCC in the style of the 1829 bridges (ie 103) which are to much more generous proportions, and 107/108 were replaced with large concrete structures by the highways authority when the the A425 was improved in the 1930s.

    I've got some OCC bridge and lock drawings somewhere if anyone would like copies of them.

  7. #97
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    Sorry Valliant, my badly written English, gives the wrong impression. Your quite correct and technically a 14 foot water course is sufficient to pass two narrow boats neither I or anybody else would be that foolish to try. Canal builders would have used and reused time and again their timber formers to build the bridges, thus all bridges on a particular canal would have been practically identical.
    That is how the half dozen barrel roof cottages on the Lower Stratford came to be, built using bridge formers and the two ends bricked up. They also have tie bars through them and abutments to the walls to stop them spreading outwards under the weight of the 13" solid brick roof.

    It wasn't the waterway width of bridge hole that concerned me, those are well documented, more the required length of bridge on the waterway plane, that needs to be adjustable to suit the numerous different width road assets that are available in Trainz.
    There is was no standard road widths in the UK, sizes were sometimes set out by the local council but seldom.
    Asset creators have made dozens of roads of all various widths so these when connect to a bridge with an inbuilt road spline they either fail to meet the bridge side wall or stick out through the brickwork and overhang whatever is beneath.
    The other point I pondered, canal bridges tend to be pinched inward at the centre.
    No problem to do that and recreate on a model, but how to get a spline road to do so at that point?
    My very limited asset creation experience, suggests to me that can't be achieved as spline roads would have the width specified in the config file presumably.
    Anyway, not too bothered about the narrowing of the bridge roadway, parallel sides will do.
    Maybe one answer is to specify the Kuids that I know will fit in a read me file.
    Cheers
    JP

  8. #98

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    Make the asset with the road textured and then use invisible road spline as the connecting road. It is also possible with ATLS to have single lane traffic over the bridge with a bit of manipulation of the roads.
    Last edited by stagecoach; December 20th, 2019 at 10:47 AM.

  9. #99
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    Looks like the majority of bridges are configured that way, but that produces 2 unwanted side effects.

    i) The road, chosen by the route builder for joining is likely to be of a very different nature and colour. Leaving you with a road that changes markedly over the bridge.
    ii) Road traffic often jumps when crossing from the attached road to the asset bridge road.

    All in all not life like on either score.
    JP.

  10. #100
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    There seem to be periodic narrowings of some canals local to me, formed by paired projections from each bank. I don't know the purpose of these features (traffic calming?) - is there any particular logic to where they are located or should they be included at certain distances perhaps? Thanks for any assistance.
    Member of trainz-carriage-wagon-works

  11. #101

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    Quote Originally Posted by neville_hill View Post
    There seem to be periodic narrowings of some canals local to me, formed by paired projections from each bank. I don't know the purpose of these features (traffic calming?) - is there any particular logic to where they are located or should they be included at certain distances perhaps? Thanks for any assistance.

    They are called "narrows" and will be placed at either end of major embankments stop planks to be put in in the event of a breach to prevent total loss of water from the affected pound. In the days when the canal network was properly maintained the planks would have been stored (usually in some form of shelter) next to the narrows ready for use in an emergency.

  12. #102
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    These narrows are generally found on longer and elevated pounds of the canal, the purpose to provide a narrowed point on the canal easily staunched to facilitate maintenance.
    By narrowing the canal it was easy to drop in a set of stop planks to dam the canal before draining off a section.
    Look close and you will undoubtedly see two vertical grooves in the brickwork to take the ends of the stop planks.In some locations there will be 2 pair of gates, without balance beams, which when dragged into position across the cut served the same purpose as the stop planks.These narrows and there function were also useful should an emergency occur such as a breach on an elevated section.

    The main line of the BCN with a width of around 30 feet, has hard standing islands built in the centre of the cut for the same purpose, that is to narrow the canal, thus enabling easy staunching.


  13. #103

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    Quote Originally Posted by parryjc View Post
    Sorry Valliant, my badly written English, gives the wrong impression. Your quite correct and technically a 14 foot water course is sufficient to pass two narrow boats neither I or anybody else would be that foolish to try. Canal builders would have used and reused time and again their timber formers to build the bridges, thus all bridges on a particular canal would have been practically identical.
    That is how the half dozen barrel roof cottages on the Lower Stratford came to be, built using bridge formers and the two ends bricked up. They also have tie bars through them and abutments to the walls to stop them spreading outwards under the weight of the 13" solid brick roof.

    It wasn't the waterway width of bridge hole that concerned me, those are well documented, more the required length of bridge on the waterway plane, that needs to be adjustable to suit the numerous different width road assets that are available in Trainz.
    There is was no standard road widths in the UK, sizes were sometimes set out by the local council but seldom.
    Asset creators have made dozens of roads of all various widths so these when connect to a bridge with an inbuilt road spline they either fail to meet the bridge side wall or stick out through the brickwork and overhang whatever is beneath.
    The other point I pondered, canal bridges tend to be pinched inward at the centre.
    No problem to do that and recreate on a model, but how to get a spline road to do so at that point?
    My very limited asset creation experience, suggests to me that can't be achieved as spline roads would have the width specified in the config file presumably.
    Anyway, not too bothered about the narrowing of the bridge roadway, parallel sides will do.
    Maybe one answer is to specify the Kuids that I know will fit in a read me file.
    Cheers
    JP

    As I said in my last post I don't think this is an issue - again from study of the Oxford bridges the distance between the parapets seems to be the same whether it was a road bridge or an accommodation bridge.

    People have tried it - there were two boats wedged in a bridgehole on the Coventry for the best part of a day a few years ago - and no, I wasn't one of them!

  14. #104
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    Many thanks for the explanations!
    Member of trainz-carriage-wagon-works

  15. #105

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    Quote Originally Posted by parryjc View Post


    The main line of the BCN with a width of around 30 feet, has hard standing islands built in the centre of the cut for the same purpose, that is to narrow the canal, thus enabling easy staunching.

    Those narrows on the BCN New Main Line were toll islands: http://blackcountryhistory.org/colle.../GB145_p_2079/

    It's a while since I boated the whole length, but I can't think of one with stop plank grooves in and many had a culvert under the island to ease the flow of water - presumably so that a boat being gauged didn't get washed out of one side if boat passed through the other side.

    Stretton Stop on the Oxford |(aka "home") is a good example of both - the narrows there being used for gauging but also having a gate built that would swing shut with the flow of water if the big embankment just north of there should fail.

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