Greetings, and a few questions

Re. scaling up - my approach is to imagine what I would have done given the space, time and finance and to increase the "radius" of curves and turnouts but to maintain the track spacing, otherwise everything looks wrong. The standard track spacing of UK track in Trainz is 3.5 metres and to achieve these I made a number of what I call "way gauges" for two, three and four tracks (other spacers are available!) and go for a minimum radius of 100 metres, using fixed track curves and then replacing them with spline track. For crossovers, I use a minimum of 50 metres between blade tips. These are my standards only and I am not suggesting that they should be used by others - to each his own! as I have said elsewhere. For realism I ensure that all tracks are within arm's length of the baseboard edge in order to deal with possible derailments - not an issue in Trainz, but I want a layout to be as realistic as possible. I also imagine when the layout was built, as well as the period it represents, and my favourite time for the former is my earlier modelling years, that is the early 1960s - so for me, everything I do has to have been possible at that time.

It's good fun!

Ray
 
Yes indeed Ray, scaling up can require a bit of eyeballing to put the tracks back at the correct spacing, where the individual lines become further apart. You basically need to decide which of the black lines will be your marker line and follow that.

OT: (Elite) I'm guessing by your Frontier name that the X-Universe games have also played a part? I played up to X3: Reunion. Enjoyed them. Re Elite - I'm safe to say this here, but always remember it's just a game, and there's no 'true' mode. Play in the mode that gives you, personally, the best experience. o7, Commander

Up to X-Rebirth though I waited until most of the bugs had been sorted out. I play quite a variety of PC games, not just train sims and space games. However there's something abot ED that focuses the imagination and yes, the official forum is a minefield for the unwary - makes this place look like a kiddie playground at times.
 
I've experimented with the model railroad thing myself and found yes you need to play with the scaling a bit. There's a route which has fascinated me since I first saw it in a model railroad book many years ago. It has a nice out and back setup with a branch and is supposed to fit in a room. If it was built "to scale" as drawn, a human could not fit in the aisle between the layout as it wrapped around the room! I really wonder how many other great model railroad plans are drawn to look pretty for printing in books, but never take that stuff into consideration. :)

To get this to work and look right at the same time, I scaled the plan up in the included Basemapz program that comes with TMR2017. This took a few trials to get the proportions right so that the layout wasn't distorted and the aisle space was wide enough to stand in. When I started building, I used the route heights, done in inches and converted to meters, to get the proper height for bridges and grades. I never finished the project, what else is new, but it was fun while I worked on it. I might go back and have a look again when I get some time after my eye surgery.
 
Vern - I seem to have lost the post I just wrote so here it is again!

Just for the record, I do not scan MR plans but place track directly on the Trainz baseboard following the station plans etc. but scaling u to increase the lengths of stations and "radius" of curves etc. I use platforms and stations I made years ago with Surveyor only markers showing the centre lines of tracks from platform edges and in the case of opposite platforms the track centres as well. I also make extensive use of my "way gauges", laying two and connecting them with spline track - as the track on the gauges is set to update to connected track, they can either be left in place or replaced later.

Personally, I would find a scanned plan unhelpful as the track lines would be too wide anyway - but that's my way of doing things!

Ray
 
If you're interested in model railroad plans, check out those available for download from Kalmbach Publishing who publishes the famous Model Railroader Magazine.

https://kalmbachhobbystore.com/cata...aac7f&topics=d8208c62850a4cafb530ecbb3d8664dd

Sample:
https://kalmbachhobbystore.com/product/digital-download/mrpdf068

At one time Kalmbach offered the 101 Trackplans book in digital format, now they have a John Armstrong Best of Series, which most likely contains plans from this book.

If you have access to a scanner, you can scan them yourself, which I did. It takes some trial and error though to get the images to come out as squarely as possible.


There's SCARM also which has some nice simple plans which can be scaled as needed. Some of them were created by others, but you can build your own using the SCARM software.

http://www.scarm.info/layouts/track_plans.php
 
John - as the OP is interested mainly in UK railways, may I add my recommendation of plans by C J Freezer, published over many years when he was editor of two British railway modelling magazines - they appeared monthly in magazines and in many books which are no doubt still available. In particular, I recommend PSL Book of Model Railway Track Plans. This covers a variety of locations, some small and toy-like but others for the loft or garage, and I have used several of these as inspiration in Trainz, especially the station plans from the larger ones which are authentic for GB. Just imagine a large garage or loft , as one Trainz baseboard equals about 31 feet square in 4mm/1:76 scale - I had a loft about this size when I lived in a bungalow, and as for the garage - just imagine winning a lottery!

Ray
 
John - as the OP is interested mainly in UK railways, may I add my recommendation of plans by C J Freezer, published over many years when he was editor of two British railway modelling magazines - they appeared monthly in magazines and in many books which are no doubt still available. In particular, I recommend PSL Book of Model Railway Track Plans. This covers a variety of locations, some small and toy-like but others for the loft or garage, and I have used several of these as inspiration in Trainz, especially the station plans from the larger ones which are authentic for GB. Just imagine a large garage or loft , as one Trainz baseboard equals about 31 feet square in 4mm/1:76 scale - I had a loft about this size when I lived in a bungalow, and as for the garage - just imagine winning a lottery!

Ray

Yes! Those are awesome track plans as well. I think I have some somewhere in my book collections and I must dig through some boxes in the closet (again).

A OO route on a 4 x 8 is a good sized layout, but doing that in N-scale (1:160) and it becomes a small empire. ;)

A garage sized layout was always a dream when I was a kid as I sat at my small 2 x 4 layout that fit under my bed. Even back then when a loco could be had for $7.95 and a switch for $3.00, meant dad would need to win the lottery too.
 
Thanks for tip Template Tip!

GreyArea --

The definitive primer for Model Trainz is this video:

It's always very helpful to take to pieces an existing layout to see how things fit together. For instance, in my later layouts I use terra-forming to drop the floor rather than the dig hole method in the video.

As for basic track laying, always ALWAYS use a curve template. My favorite is "90d_100-400m Template" from the Download Station. And remember to use the straighten tool, particularly at switches (ops -- points). If you want to see how one of my layouts progressed, Post #2593 onwards in this thread:

https://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?109038-Model-Railroadz/page173

Phil

:wave: Good Day Phil, never knew this guy existed, another GEM in the rough, thank you for the Tip......

Definitely will work better than my old Eyes trying to line those curves up.:hehe:
 
ISTR Railway Modeller in the mid-late 70's/early 80's had a number of Plans Of The Month based on intriguing solutions for prototype situations. A few that come to mind were Liskeard to Looe, North Woolwich + the Silvertown Tramway, Maidenhead to Marlow. These would make excellent projects for a TMR project but seems Peco have the copyright tied up pretty tight even on these 40 year old magazines, as I've never come across them published on line - officially or unofficially.

Sadly my back issues of RM were long since consigned to the bin/recycle many house moves ago, on the grounds I was unlikely to build a real MR again. If only I had known then, etc...
 
I see that marky7890 has just released Liskeard to Looe KUID 179051:100088 for T:ANE SP2 - not a virtual model railway, but may be of interest. See https://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?144219-Liskeard-to-Looe

Vern - the Plans of the Month were very interesting and I drooled over each one in turn! I also remember Euston as a garage or club layout - and for anyone wanting to try out virtual railway modelling, Minories, a city suburban terminus, would take some beating and could be built in a very short time. I'll have a look through my back copies when I have some free time - they date from the late fifties through to when I moved to Trainz (AGE!) but are unfortunately a) not catalogued and b) not in complete year sets because I have the habit of taking out interesting ones to look at! As a "proper" Trainz route I'm working on a more recent RM suggestion for a layout based on the current Isle of Wight system - not much operating interest but I'm more interested in scenery, anyway. As a VMR, I'm doing a completely fictitious Sun Hill to Dock Green on one board - UK readers will no doubt know where the names came from!

As a thought, back copies of RM are often available at model railway exhibitions and some can be bought from specialist retailers, or used to be - I'm out of touch these days apart from buying the odd copy of RM or CM for old time's sake.

Ray
 
Funnily enough this morning I was looking through the original Plans For Larger Layouts. There's one in particular, a 14' x 9' continuous run but with another of CJF's trademarks - the through terminus station. Also has a buried return loop which does a Stratford (East London) Central style climb out under the platform of the through station! Might scan it and take a look.

One thing we could do with though for model railways is some fixed track double and single slip points plus diamond crossings that all adapt to the track spline connected to them. Or maybe TS2018 will extend the functionality of Protrack to include diamond crossings with the relevant upgrades to the signalling logic. I know there are ATLS style workarounds to diamonds in particular but we need some compact fittings to sit with the constrained - even when expanded - these plans sit in.
 
And I've just been looking through a very random pile of old RMs which lead me to suggest that other sources of inspiration for virtual model railway enthusiasts in the UK might be the station plans and signal box diagroms which used to be published, for example:

July 1974 Kirby Lonsdale (Station plan)
August 1974 Pool-in-Wharfedale (SP)
September 1974 Talacre (SP)
February 1975 Grayrigg (SP)
May 1971 Dorchester South (Signal box diagram)
December 1970 Heathfield (SBD)
December 1971 Pensford & Bromley Colliery (SBD)
January 1971 Eggesford (SBD)
February 1971 Newton Tony Junction (SBD)
June 1971 Hampton Court (SBD)

Well, I said this was a random selection! I must sort all my RMs into year groups ...

Hampton Court especially appeals to me as it is a three-platform terminus with only one platform in use during the day but all three at peak commuter times. and would fit nicely along one wall of the model railway room leading (perhaps temporarily) to a fiddle yard or return loop - and later maybe to another terminus. I may have a go!

I agree with your comments, Vern, about set track assets which would be useful. I only wish I had the skill to make them.

Ray
 
Last edited:
Well if you discover the one with the North Woolwich line, let me know as I think that would make an excellent diorama style route. The prototype would too, but the prospect of tackling Stratford High Level which would be necessary as a scenic backdrop to the low level branch line, is too daunting!
 
Last edited:
Hi

I have created a set of 5 rooms in the genre of a model railway in TR2017 and all uk based. You might be interested in having a look at them - inspired mainly by 2 contributors to this thread, Philskene & Ray Whiley. On the download station, lookup YMRZ Room 1 Callingworth, Room 2 St Mary branch, Room 3 Yorminster, Room 4 Martindale, Room 5 Portmartin Ver 2. They are a mixture of mainline, branchline and combined. They may give you some ideas as well as downloading UK dependencies which you can use in your own layouts. Although I have both TANE SP2 & TMR17 I spend most of my time in TMR17!


Yorkshire
 
Yes, these rooms are very interesting and well worth a look. I have two very basic rooms - one and two boards respectively - just consisting of walls, floor, a push pin marking the centre point and lines from this directly to North, South, East and West, the point then being named for easy reference. This saves some time when starting a new project!

As for layout size, browsing through my RM collection the other day I came across a plan in January 1973 which very much appealed to me at the time, but I realised I could never build because of lack of time and finance - although my (then) loft would have accommodated it. I was suggested as an exhibition "tail-chaser" for a club - about 13'3" x 9'6". But in Trainz ...

The first tracks were laid on Wednesday this week and all tracks were laid by tea-time yesterday: large four-track through station able to take an HST, goods yard, carriage sidings, four-road loco shed, and seven-track storage sidings (intended for exhibition use) - this will have scenery (eventually) to make it into a marshalling yard. Of course, now comes the time-consumer - laying scenery - but when some has been added I will think about some screenshots.

This has revived my interest after some time "in the doldrums!.

There's also enough space in the room (about 31' square for a UK 1:76 layout) for a table, couple of chairs, storage cupboards, bookcases - and my mug of coffee (half-empty!)

Ray
 
As an aside I had a quick go at one of the CJF plans from Large Layouts yesterday. Even with the baseboard scaled up by 20% it wouldn't work, particularly on a section where two lines burrow down to the low level reverse loop but with another line at datum in between. The falling lines were on a gradient of something like 1 in 18 to achieve the required clearance over the level terrain above the hidden section and too close together to work in retaining walls etc. to disguise terrain fall off. And not sure what size loco he was expecting to turn on the space for a turntable. I couldn't even fit a 50ft one in the area! Will take a look at some point if 50% larger area helps but working on one of my other projects now in the meantime.
 
As an aside I had a quick go at one of the CJF plans from Large Layouts yesterday. Even with the baseboard scaled up by 20% it wouldn't work, particularly on a section where two lines burrow down to the low level reverse loop but with another line at datum in between. The falling lines were on a gradient of something like 1 in 18 to achieve the required clearance over the level terrain above the hidden section and too close together to work in retaining walls etc. to disguise terrain fall off. And not sure what size loco he was expecting to turn on the space for a turntable. I couldn't even fit a 50ft one in the area! Will take a look at some point if 50% larger area helps but working on one of my other projects now in the meantime.

This sounds like a plan that was "scaled" to fit in the publication, which happens all too often. For those building the route in real scenery, actual measurements are taken, but for us virtual modelers well it's a different story since we work with the plans literally only to discover the distortion.

I have also discovered authors taking a bit of license with heights and distances to make the plan look pretty for the publication, but not necessarily anything that someone might build, or so they thought. I scaled one plan as they called for in the book, for one route I looked at. I mentioned this in a post back on the second page. The width between the parts of the layout would never fit an adult whether they were on the really thin side or not. This took some fiddling to get that right.
 
Many of these plans were also conceived in an era where cramming in as much track as possible was the main criteria. This made the project look busy and exciting even if the proposed layout was totally impractical. Complex plans tended to sell plan books and back in my youth I spent many hours finger tracing possible routes through the network (still do, truth be told!).

Then as also touched on either in this thread or others most of the items available to us are scaled for 1:1 prototype use and not compressed or trimmed to fit a model. Items such as flyovers or dive-unders on a model would be custom built of fudged but in Trainz we have to work with the berms and retaining walls we have.

Nevertheless I'm still wanting to come back to the layout idea and, with some further expansion and adjustment of CJF's more fanciful clearances, produce a working model just to prove it can be done.
 
Many of these plans were also conceived in an era where cramming in as much track as possible was the main criteria. This made the project look busy and exciting even if the proposed layout was totally impractical. Complex plans tended to sell plan books and back in my youth I spent many hours finger tracing possible routes through the network (still do, truth be told!).

Then as also touched on either in this thread or others most of the items available to us are scaled for 1:1 prototype use and not compressed or trimmed to fit a model. Items such as flyovers or dive-unders on a model would be custom built of fudged but in Trainz we have to work with the berms and retaining walls we have.

Nevertheless I'm still wanting to come back to the layout idea and, with some further expansion and adjustment of CJF's more fanciful clearances, produce a working model just to prove it can be done.


You still do that too? I thought I was the only one! :D

Very true the old bowl of spaghetti style routes which always look cool and catch the interest of the readers.

I always thought of Trainz as a good way to verify stuff for a model railroad before committing to plywood and plaster because it gave us the chance to check such things as grades and curves, which can become unrealistically tight on a model railroad even with the longest curves. Perhaps for those that really want the modeling affect, someone could very kindly make "shorty" passenger cars that are 54-feet long instead of 85-feet long for those that model the larger scales. I know that in N-scale they do make 85-foot passenger cars which are only used of course on routes with the smoothest curves and nothing under a 21-inch radius.
 
Back
Top