Why are sessions so underrated?

I've been looking at the download ratio between routes and sessions on the DLS by other various authors and routes and sessions that I have posted. I have to admit, I'm discouraged with such low session download counts it seems like it's not even worth creating sessions.

I'm aware that people will dl a route just to get additional assets, a sort of Wall-Mart all in one stop grab, or dl a route to set up sessions their own particular way. I have done the same but I've always downloaded and played the sessions to see what the author intended to relay as far as game play and a general original feel because it adds a more interesting element. That's just my take on it, which I know is not the same as everyone else.

I'm mentioning this because there are Trainz Members that put good care into making very good sessions which can be as time consuming as making a route. With the two routes I have uploaded on the DLS (Northeast Metro, and RTA Redbird Transit Authority) a lot of time and coding went into the features such as random weather, auto cab switching, station announcements, auto junctions, ambient sounds, AI train schedules / timing, etc. in order to immerse the user.

I'm just asking for some input as to what other reasons there are for such a lack of interest regarding sessions?


Thank you.

Vaughn

No clue if they fixed this bug in TANE, but in TS12 the download count of a route was also upped when you downloaded the session, even if you already had the route downloaded. So if you download a route first and the session second, the counter for the route would be 2 and the session 1. This of course effects the numbers, so they are a lot less bad as they might look.

Another argument is that for a lot of routes, the sessions are unknown unless you deliberately searched for them or happened to read the announcement topic.

Personally, I rarely download a route, unless it has at least one session.

Paul

I am a big fan of routes with sessions. They let me see what the route creator had in mind and/or what prototypical operation must have been like. If I really enjoy a route, I will create my own sessions, often using the original sessions as templates. I am also a big fan of trackside cameras; they let creators highlight their work and make driving more fun.

Only rarely will I download a route without sessions or cameras. Running a session is far preferable to just randomly driving around a route in my opinion.

Reasons may be:
a) Sometimes it's difficult to determine if sessions are available for a route.
b) Sometimes it's difficult to determine what route is required for a particular session.

Both are in the hands of the content creator -- hey, it's not all that difficult to add a few words to the descriptive text, something like "Sessions are available for this route" and "This session is for ... ."

making a session takes as much time as it dose to make a route which is why most don't bother with the extra work load or they leave it up to you to make a session for that route, I do both my self. For my main route I make sessions for that map but not my other routes, that's just me other route builders are different.

The skills needed in building routes and sessions are different. Creating sessions is more like programming (driver schedules, track marks, triggers and session rules) and can take as long or even longer than building a route. Certainly there is more "trial and error" and "debugging" involved in session building which takes a lot of patience and a logical mind. Route building needs aesthetics, design "creativity", an eye for detail and a different set of problem solving skills. Some creators are good (or excellent) at one but not the other.

Some creators just don't have the patience to do both.

Thank you, Everyone.

I was never aware of a download count issue with TS12, as oknotsen mentioned. That does explain quite a bit in addition to possible difficulties in finding a session for a route. After reading all the replies, I'm quite relieved that many do prefer session(s) with a route and the download count information I was seeing on the DLS is incorrect. Thank you all for enlightening me.

Regards,

Vaughn

IMHO, some of the blame lies with the session creator. Eg; Contents creator "Joe Blobs" builds a route. He calls it "ABC" Route. A few weeks later, he build a Session for said route. He calls it "JXP" Session. Whats needed on the DLS is a reference that Session JXP is for Route ABC.

Often on the DLS, you have no idea what ROUTE the SESSION has been made for, because there is no reference to the routes name... (Eg; New Session called JXP for Route ABC)...

Cheers, Mac...

philskene said:

Reasons may be:
a) Sometimes it's difficult to determine if sessions are available for a route.
b) Sometimes it's difficult to determine what route is required for a particular session.

Both are in the hands of the content creator -- hey, it's not all that difficult to add a few words to the descriptive text, something like "Sessions are available for this route" and "This session is for ... ."

Click to expand...

100 % agree

meatloaf747 said:

IMHO, some of the blame lies with the session creator. Eg; Contents creator "Joe Blobs" builds a route. He calls it "ABC" Route. A few weeks later, he build a Session for said route. He calls it "JXP" Session. Whats needed on the DLS is a reference that Session JXP is for Route ABC.

Often on the DLS, you have no idea what ROUTE the SESSION has been made for, because there is no reference to the routes name... (Eg; New Session called JXP for Route ABC)...

Cheers, Mac...

Click to expand...

I totally agree with that being an issue at times but quite a few do title the route and sessions with the same header name which makes all related sessions easy to find on the DLS. i.e. Northeast Metro - v2014A (Route) , Northeast Metro - Yellow Line (Session), Northeast Metro - Red Line (Session) etc.

Regards,

Vaughn

"Creating sessions is more like programming (driver schedules, track marks, triggers and session rules) and can take as long or even longer than building a route."

Hmm. I must be doing it all wrong because making a session takes me considerably less time than making a route. But then again, my sessions put much more responsibility on the player. I expect the player to be driver, driver's assistant, switchman, Load Master, Yard Master, ... . The only role that I take is that of Dispatcher, telling the player (invariably "Chuck & Joe") what tasks have to be performed in the shift. I also generally do a write up in these Forums that give a bit more detail or background to the session, for example my Posts #20 and #22 in this thread:

https://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?141317-Woodlands-version-of-quot-The-Mann-Phrom-Laramee-quot-model-railroad/page2

So a question -- is this sufficient or is the general expectation for more? If the response is for tightly structured "pop-up" sessions, count me out. Pop-up sessions are hard to construct, very time consuming and, for me, incredibly frustrating.

Phil

philskene said:

"Creating sessions is more like programming (driver schedules, track marks, triggers and session rules) and can take as long or even longer than building a route."

Hmm. I must be doing it all wrong because making a session takes me considerably less time than making a route. But then again, my sessions put much more responsibility on the player. I expect the player to be driver, driver's assistant, switchman, Load Master, Yard Master, ... . The only role that I take is that of Dispatcher, telling the player (invariably "Chuck & Joe") what tasks have to be performed in the shift. I also generally do a write up in these Forums that give a bit more detail or background to the session

Click to expand...

No, you are not "doing it all wrong", you are just doing it differently. I grade my sessions as "Basic", "Advanced" and "Expert". My "Expert" sessions are like your dispatcher sessions.

For my "Basic" sessions I use a large number of navigation points and message popups to provide a fully guided step-by-step sequence (or if you like a total hand holding experience) for the user to follow to achieve the session objectives. These take a lot of time - months to create, test, debug, etc.

An "Advanced" session is a less guided version of the "Basic" session - fewer navigation points and message popups.

An "Expert" session is a "you are on-your-own" version of the "Basic" session. It has all the user instructions in a message popup at the start of the session and has no navigation points or other message popups.**

philskene said:

So a question -- is this sufficient or is the general expectation for more? If the response is for tightly structured "pop-up" sessions, count me out. Pop-up sessions are hard to construct, very time consuming and, for me, incredibly frustrating.

Click to expand...

You are absolutely correct on all points. But, I believe, there is a demand for such sessions. My philosophy is to supply a fully guided "Basic" version for those who need it as well as an "on-your-own" "Expert" version of the same session for those who don't need it. Hopefully, the graduates from the "Basic" version will be able to handle the "Expert" version after some experience. It is a bit like a new train driver learning the road.

EDIT: ** In one of my "Expert" sessions, a short one taking about 25 minutes to complete, I decided to have "some fun" by putting in increasingly angry messages from the dispatcher, I used a variable as a counter, when the player did something wrong like passing a signal at stop.

Philskene, I think your approach to sesssions is ideal. I have completely lost interest in sessions with locked junctions and little direction balloons all over the place. I particularly like your Yuan Gulch layout and sessions. Keep up the good work.

Pitkin

Subway_V said:

I've been looking at the download ratio between routes and sessions on the DLS by other various authors and routes and sessions that I have posted. I have to admit, I'm discouraged with such low session download counts it seems like it's not even worth creating sessions.

Thank you.

Vaughn

Click to expand...

Where do I find these stats? It will save a lot of unnecessary downloading.

You can only see the download stats (a single figure) on the Web based DLS. Look at the data line under each thumbnail.

I prefer to see what the route looks like first, to see what it's like, then download additional sessions so I know the geography of the route to help me.

Three major reasons why I don't make more sessions then I do:

a. First and foremost, for the amount of effort I put into them I get little feedback or response in return. Folks we do this for free, at least I do, so the least you can do is give us some kind of feedback but I almost never get any on the work I do. No response = no incentive to create more, its that simple.

b. Created sessions tend to be version specific with no compatibility beyond the version they were designed for even if the track and content itself does not change. This makes them a pain as I have to then create new sessions based on the old ones so it will work with the new version of Trainz.

c. Needed content (ie; rolling stock, engines, etc) does not get updated by the original authors which often causes problems when trying to migrate older sessions to newer Trainz versions.

Add all this up and creating sessions is often more trouble then its worth....

Bob

To me, the layout is the starting point. If Trainz was a play then the layout provides the set, the backdrop and the props. The session provides the actors and the script.

A layout does not tell you how a railway operates. The session does that.

In the real world, each train driver does not decide, when he/she gets into the cab, when they will depart, where they will go and what they will pickup. A session provides those details.

Peter --

"In the real world, each train driver does not decide, when he/she gets into the cab, when they will depart, where they will go and what they will pickup."

Wot?! You mean that as the Dispatcher I can't say to my crack team (Chuck and Joe) working on my Short Lines "Do this, do that, ... . Now just get out there and do it. And when you eventually get back later this afternoon we will sit down and have a coffee" ?

Hmm. If that's the case then I'll have to say "Mount up and depart at 0823. ... Arrive at ... at 0854. Back up into spur ... Cut off car number ... . Switch back into ... . Collect car number ... . Marshal it as third in the consist. Wait for AI Train # ... to pass. Set off at 0927 for ... ." No wonder most route creators don't bother with session.

All said in jest, of course.

Phil