From your comments Rob, you don't seem to be happy with Trainz.
So, if you are not happy,... give it the 'flick' and play with another one of your toys.
Most of the people with Trainz love it. Better get used to it.
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Should N3V consign Trainz to the public domain?
- Thread starter robd
- Start date
From your comments Rob, you don't seem to be happy with Trainz.
So, if you are not happy,... give it the 'flick' and play with another one of your toys.
Most of the people with Trainz love it. Better get used to it.
MTH_ELECTRIC_TRAINS
7 Year Trainz Vet
Everyone does realize Auran was the only company making the Trainz series for a few years right? They only made Trainz (The first one), UTC, TRS2004 and TRS2006 and then the game was basically handed to N3V after that. N3V has been developing this game for years. Also, this is N3V's only game they are producing now. Yes, they have produced others in the past but I think they are kind of on a one track mind now. No pun intended, lol!
I do not believe that Tane or any other product of N3V will become open source any time soon in the light of much that has been pointed out in this thread to Robd. However, I do believe that one item Robd has touched on does have some relevance not only to the future of the Trainz franchise but also to high end Windows platform gaming in general, that being “enjoyment”.
As can be seen from my station stops above I have purchased virtually all previous version of Trainz with the exception of T:ane. Trainz classics and Trainz version 10 when purchased gave me great enjoyment especially when returning home from a long at work. In that I always found that those versions would work without any tinkering every evening without fail leaving me to create my own world’s in my routes. The simplicity was everything as there were no database rebuilds etc to concern the user, just straightforward enjoyment.
In Trainz version 12 the complications began to creep in and the long time enjoyment begin to seep out. However, that was/is not a phenomenon only to afflict the Trainz franchise but is a common grievance often voiced at present in regard to high end Windows gaming in general. Over complicated and over expensive is a general charge levelled against the platform on any number of forums and social media.
I realize that the challenge of getting the above complexity operating to perfection is very much part of the enjoyment to many in high end gaming, but that factor is not enjoyment to many others and in that we have seen the growth of the casual gaming platforms. The forgoing in my view is a fact that the Windows gaming platform has to address if it’s medium to long term survival is to be assured.
Bill
As can be seen from my station stops above I have purchased virtually all previous version of Trainz with the exception of T:ane. Trainz classics and Trainz version 10 when purchased gave me great enjoyment especially when returning home from a long at work. In that I always found that those versions would work without any tinkering every evening without fail leaving me to create my own world’s in my routes. The simplicity was everything as there were no database rebuilds etc to concern the user, just straightforward enjoyment.
In Trainz version 12 the complications began to creep in and the long time enjoyment begin to seep out. However, that was/is not a phenomenon only to afflict the Trainz franchise but is a common grievance often voiced at present in regard to high end Windows gaming in general. Over complicated and over expensive is a general charge levelled against the platform on any number of forums and social media.
I realize that the challenge of getting the above complexity operating to perfection is very much part of the enjoyment to many in high end gaming, but that factor is not enjoyment to many others and in that we have seen the growth of the casual gaming platforms. The forgoing in my view is a fact that the Windows gaming platform has to address if it’s medium to long term survival is to be assured.
Bill
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Christopher824
CDETrainz.com
I will be clear, I think Trainz is unfit to be a commercial product and should be put in the public domain. I understand the public domain means freeware or shareware, NOT open source as I stated previously. I apologize to any open source software developers who may have read this thread.
I hope this clarifies my argument to all.
Rob.
I think your wack. Trainz is by far the best open train simulator engine / tool I've seen. You can use tools like TransDEM, GMAX, Blender, and a bunch of other tools to make this any way you want it. If you have a high end computer and you spend the time, you can make this anything you want. If you have a sucky computer and don't want to spend any money, then your experience may be poor, but that does not mean the tool / Trainz is somehow defective.
It is a great commercial product and there is nothing like it that I have found. The new TANE base is way better than any iteration of Trainz I have seen in the past, and if they keep at it, it is going to blow away everything in the future, have you seen the 'Turf' stuff that they are going to add into the program?
I have developed some small software projects and used the Apache open source license to release it, so I gave it away, your comments make no sense in regards to 'it should be freeware or shareware'... BS, who's going to pay for it, you? Do you own a Fortune 500 company or something? I am ready to buy the next version of Trainz right now, and I would buy an upgrade every year if they offered it. It is far less than my AutoCAD, Visual Studio, MS Office, Visio, Domain Names, Hosting Fees, and other software development / licenses I keep buying.
When I see all the effort that so many content creators and script developers put out to make this product work, and NV3 and these creators put a price on their product, and you come along and say, you all should just give it all away... It makes me very sad, very sad.
(Just because this is what I think)
Not according to their website: http://n3vgames.com/about_n3v/Also, this is N3V's only game they are producing now.
johnwhelan
Well-known member
There are actually a few open source alternatives to Trainz. Barry who was into boats and canals has created a number of layouts in the Blender game engine.
However nothing I've seen has the flexibility of Trainz.
Note to Wholbr TANE isn't bad. It's more rugged than TS12. The better error checking gives better performance. It will run on an intel series 4000 integrated graphics chip so practically any intel processor less than five years old will run Middleton for laptops. If you have such hardware flip me a pm with your email address and I'll flip you a license but you might have to wait a fortnight before helpdesk is back to get it transferred. Realistically a GTX1050 is as low as you might want to go for more general assets.
Cheerio John
However nothing I've seen has the flexibility of Trainz.
Note to Wholbr TANE isn't bad. It's more rugged than TS12. The better error checking gives better performance. It will run on an intel series 4000 integrated graphics chip so practically any intel processor less than five years old will run Middleton for laptops. If you have such hardware flip me a pm with your email address and I'll flip you a license but you might have to wait a fortnight before helpdesk is back to get it transferred. Realistically a GTX1050 is as low as you might want to go for more general assets.
Cheerio John
meatloaf747
Spotter...
Everyone does realize Auran was the only company making the Trainz series for a few years right? They only made Trainz (The first one), UTC, TRS2004 and TRS2006 and then the game was basically handed to N3V after that. N3V has been developing this game for years. Also, this is N3V's only game they are producing now. Yes, they have produced others in the past but I think they are kind of on a one track mind now. No pun intended, lol!
I don't think anything was given to N3V. Back in 2007, Auran virtually went broke. They ran out of money trying to get a online game called "Fury" to market. (that they had developed & where continuing to develop). Sadly the underdeveloped game was a bit flakey and flopped after millions where spent trying to develop it. If I remember rightly, Auran had around 70 - 80 programmers working on Fury's development at it's peak. (Sad, but the commercial reality is if you get it "wrong", it can cost you the shirt off your back).
Once Auran went close to belly up in late 2007, a new company N3V rose from the ashes. With new backers & new fresh capital. (new backers/partners where allegedly Chinese). Not to sure what percentage Tony owns of N3V. (That's his business).
N3V as a company is probably valued in the millions. At a wild guess, 2 to 5 million, maybe a lot more. If the company was sold, Tony would be entitled to the value of his current share holdings in N3V.
With the utmost respect, the question I would like to ask the original poster Rob is; If you where Tony and you owned a few million dollars of the companies value, would you like to see the Companies (N3V) core product "Tane", be give away as freeware or shareware and making those share you held in N3V virtually worthless???
Somehow, I don't think so...
IMHO, Tane, (which still has a few warts) is still the best and most flexible Train Sim out there, by a long shot. Nothing else out there comes close to the amount of "free additional content" on the DLS & 3rd party sites & "Surveyor". - If there was a better train sim out there, MOST OF US would be using it...
Happy Trainzing...
Cheers, Mac...
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I will be clear, I think Trainz is unfit to be a commercial product and should be put in the public domain. I understand the public domain means freeware or shareware, NOT open source as I stated previously. I apologize to any open source software developers who may have read this thread.
I hope this clarifies my argument to all.
Rob.
Oh my goodness, what a bloomin' insult to N3V, to the content creators, folks who submitted bugs to help and also to the people who enjoy trainz in their own way. robd you are not the only one whom have had problems in trainz. I am surprised my keyboard is still in one piece, but because Trainz is a great hobby for myself, I do my best to sort out problems (user made too) or take advice from the helpdesk or read what others have said on the forums here.
Trainz has great potential and from the "sneak peeks" we have been given on "next", it has every chance of being top of the train simulators generally.
Like a good wine it takes time to mature. The more bugs are submitted by people, the better the platform will become. If one really wants something to work, they chip in and lend a hand.
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hiawathamr
DLC developer for Trainz
You got to give me a break!
Trainz is basically the only game out there that doesn't have too many serious / game breaking bugs (earlier versions for sure). I can't see Trainz fitting into the public domain part since its not really made to go into that part...
I say its perfect the way it is. If you want the older versions, why not just go and buy them?
UTC got me into the Trainz world, and since then I collected the rest of the games since Trainz is that fun
Trainz is basically the only game out there that doesn't have too many serious / game breaking bugs (earlier versions for sure). I can't see Trainz fitting into the public domain part since its not really made to go into that part...
I say its perfect the way it is. If you want the older versions, why not just go and buy them?
UTC got me into the Trainz world, and since then I collected the rest of the games since Trainz is that fun
Wow, some really defensive response here!
Well, what did you expect? Did you think we would agree with you?
I personally have derived a whole lot of pleasure from the geeky stuff that Trainz can lead to. I now have a whole new hobby in Blender. I am fascinated by the new PBR materials and plan to learn to create them.
Certainly Trainz has the odd flaw, but it's nothing compared to what works well. I have another commercial train simulator program, and it doesn't allow any content creation at all. Its just a FPS-style game, and it has just as many hiccups as Trainz does, and it hasn't been updated or de-bugged in five years.
And I really don't see why you think that Trainz would fare any better as an open-source project.
Mick
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Not according to their website: http://n3vgames.com/about_n3v/
Interesting to note that all the other titles listed on that link are for Android and iPhone. Their only PC/Mac titles are Trainz.
I doubt if making Trainz, any version, freeware would be totally free. As others have said, some income has to support the DLS and even these forums where we enjoy complaining, asking questions, or even wishing each other Merry Christmas. Those resources are not free: someone has to pay for it. TANE is not an expensive product. I spend much, much more on tools to help my (limited) creative urges. So, I have difficulty understanding how making Trainz freeware will solve anything. I suspect it would rapidly spiral into a bottomless pit.
The thing I admire most about Trainz is its ability to appeal to a wide variety of users. About the only thing we have in common is a love of trains but on a personal level it could range from those who just want to run a railroad, play with a virtual model railroad, or even make their own assets (routes, sessions, locos, scenery and a gazillion other types of objects).
TANE SP2 is currently $24.99. You get a lot of enjoyment for around about six or seven takeaway coffees.
The thing I admire most about Trainz is its ability to appeal to a wide variety of users. About the only thing we have in common is a love of trains but on a personal level it could range from those who just want to run a railroad, play with a virtual model railroad, or even make their own assets (routes, sessions, locos, scenery and a gazillion other types of objects).
TANE SP2 is currently $24.99. You get a lot of enjoyment for around about six or seven takeaway coffees.
amigacooke
Well-known member
Is it really time for this thread again?
I tend to put this down to users having professional sim level expectations, but only prepared to cough up amateur levels of cash.
I can't see how removing development funds is going to improve the situation.
I tend to put this down to users having professional sim level expectations, but only prepared to cough up amateur levels of cash.
I can't see how removing development funds is going to improve the situation.
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I doubt if making Trainz, any version, freeware would be totally free. As others have said, some income has to support the DLS and even these forums where we enjoy complaining, asking questions, or even wishing each other Merry Christmas. Those resources are not free: someone has to pay for it. TANE is not an expensive product. I spend much, much more on tools to help my (limited) creative urges. So, I have difficulty understanding how making Trainz freeware will solve anything. I suspect it would rapidly spiral into a bottomless pit.
The thing I admire most about Trainz is its ability to appeal to a wide variety of users. About the only thing we have in common is a love of trains but on a personal level it could range from those who just want to run a railroad, play with a virtual model railroad, or even make their own assets (routes, sessions, locos, scenery and a gazillion other types of objects).
TANE SP2 is currently $24.99. You get a lot of enjoyment for around about six or seven takeaway coffees.
Pcas, you are quite correct in stating that 25 dollar's for T:ane is indeed a very good buy. However, the real cost involved comes with having to own what for many would be an expensive Windows tower PC system or very high end laptop which is capable of running the latest Trainz version. With the foregoing also comes the regular upgrades required with each new version.
In the above Windows high-end gaming is viewed as prohibitively costly which is stated very often on social media channels and casual gaming forums.
Bill
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OTOH Bill, my missus was just musing on how much it would cost to replace her iPad if it stopped working, or she rage-chucked it in the water butt. Base model is around £350 swiftly rising to the £500+ marque. For that money or a little more I could buy a half decent laptop or PC box.
... However, the real cost involved comes with having to own what for many would be an expensive Windows tower PC system or very high end laptop which is capable of running the latest Trainz version. With the foregoing also comes the regular upgrades required with each new version.
In the above Windows high-end gaming is viewed as prohibitively costly which is stated very often on social media channels and casual gaming forums.
Bill
Yes, it is. I bought my current PC with TANE in mind and, having waited so long for a stable (kind of) version, I'm thinking of a newer and higher spec machine. However, I do use this machine for other stuff including tools for content creation that can really max out a PC. Try cranking up the sample range to 1000 samples just to get a decent ambient occlusion bake in Blender. The processor goes to 100% and stays there for a long time.
But a high end PC will last for a few years and can be easily upgraded, life expectancy of Ipads and Android stuff is probably around 18 months before they are effectively out of date and unable to run the latest junk. I have a 7 Year old AMD PhenomII PC here with a 5 year old graphics card that can run TANE on moderate settings since I upgraded it to Win10. Not as good as my main PC but it's perfectly usable.
FootplatePhil
Trainz Tragic since 2002
If NV3 do indeed fail commercially it would be great if they could leave an open source Trainz as their legacy. But hopefully it will not come to that. I have purchased nearly every version released, and consider the money well spent.
Granted, sometimes Trainz can test your computer competency, and your patience. Reflecting the systems being simulated, it is a complicated product. And as with any complicated product, it requires a level of 'geekness' to get the best outcome. However, I find TANE very playable, and enjoyable, and as a keen Trainz user since the beginning, I am happy with the way NV3 are moving Trainz forward. I wonder if an open source Trainz would show as much progress.
Phil
Granted, sometimes Trainz can test your computer competency, and your patience. Reflecting the systems being simulated, it is a complicated product. And as with any complicated product, it requires a level of 'geekness' to get the best outcome. However, I find TANE very playable, and enjoyable, and as a keen Trainz user since the beginning, I am happy with the way NV3 are moving Trainz forward. I wonder if an open source Trainz would show as much progress.
Phil
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OTOH Bill, my missus was just musing on how much it would cost to replace her iPad if it stopped working, or she rage-chucked it in the water butt. Base model is around £350 swiftly rising to the £500+ marque. For that money or a little more I could buy a half decent laptop or PC box.
I like the that one Vern as I hope the missus made sure she had one of the later version waterproof iPads prior throwing it in the water butt (LOL). That said, you are perfectly correct in referring to the cost of mobile as a direct comparison to Windows platform tower PCs and high end laptops. I cannot speak for Apple devises as I have never owned any feeling that they are poor value for high cost.
However, in the above the cost of a flagship Galaxy S8 or Pixel XL on that platform is at present running in excess of £800 British sterling (over one thousand US dollars). Those costs have reduced currently from what they where due to the impending release of Galaxy S9 and Pixel 3 but heaven only above knows what the cost of those new versions will be on entering retail. Therefore, in reality I would agree that their is no such thing as low cost gaming on any platform if you require the best.
In terms of large screen graphics then Windows platform gaming by way of a tower PC undoubtedly takes the honours. However, as stated by the opening poster in this thread it has gained a reputation for users having to constantly medal with their systems to the point of having to be a geek to get the best from the platform.
By comparison mobile gaming although making major advances in terms of graphics and touch screen playability still as yet cannot compare to the Windows platform. That stated mobile devices have gained a great reputation for casual relaxed gaming with those devices constantly with there owners for use instantly wherever they are.
So, Vern, Pcas, footplatephill you pays your money and makes your choice. For myself I have come to love casual gaming but I still use my PC system if only to run Trainz version ten as that i feel is where enjoyment is easily found without medalling with the system and having to become geekish.
Bill
IMHO, Tane, (which still has a few warts) is still the best and most flexible Train Sim out there, by a long shot. Nothing else out there comes close to the amount of "free additional content" on the DLS & 3rd party sites & "Surveyor". - If there was a better train sim out there, MOST OF US would be using it...
Bingo. If a new sim came out tomorrow promising no patches etc, I still wouldn't abandon a plethora of free and payware content that appeals to a range of interests. Not to mention an established way of creating and importing your own content, as steep as that learning curve may be.
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