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I condemn Auran/N3V...
- Thread starter Alcaron
- Start date
N3V hasn't listened to certain criticisms ...
Can you be more specific?
A company has to listen to their customers.
Customer A wants X done, customer B does not want X done. By listening to one they have to ignore the other.
Customer C wants Y which would require significant and very costly changes and would probably disadvantage many others. Should they go ahead with that change?
Running a successful business involves juggling often totally contradictory customer demands and making decisions based on what is achievable within the constraints of time, cost, technology. These decisions will not please every customer.
Some posters in these forums have the unfortunate habit of believing that because they have a problem, everyone else is also having the same problem so their criticism has to be acted on immediately.
For the record, I have absolutely no problems with TANE SP2 HF1. it has resolved all the "showstopper" problems I was experiencing with TANE SP1 and SP2 and the few issues that are left are minor with simple work-arounds.
meatloaf747
Spotter...
Alcaron, no matter what your grievance is, your post is an imposition and you should be condemned. "Kind" regards, Ron
Come on Ron, please give the lad a break. He's entitled to an opinion, just like everyone else. Are you condemning him for not towing the "party/N3V" line...
He's frustrated & probably a bit p_ssed off, (like a lot of other Trainz users) that there is so much content showing errors or faults in Tane. Sure there's a group working to repair that faulty content and I'm sure 99% of Trainzers are very grateful for their efforts.
Most people buying Tane want to get on with creating something, or running trains, not having to learn how to repair faulty content and fixing it. From what I've read in the forum over the last 2.5 years, a lot of Trainzers have found it very "frustrating" & "taxing", what with all the three steps forward, one step backwards, patching, updates, hotfixes, etc, let alone the amount of content showing as faulty or missing dependencies in Tane...
No wonder some people have decided to chucked the towel in, or have gone to another train sim, or decided to take a break from Trainz.
I don't profess to know the answers. Things like getting that "faulty content" repaired as soon as possible will help. Making it easier somehow to find the "missing kuids", etc, etc, can only help also!!!
Kind regards,
Cheers, Mac...
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Mac, I repeated what he wished for N3V so he might understand how it feels to be insulted like that.
Anyone is entitled to his/her opinion, that is the root of freedom of speech. But when it turns into unwarranted and vicious insults it is step too far. That serves no purpose at all. Sure there are moments I am frustrated with TANE too but a little bit less tunnelvision by some people here wouldn't be a bad thing.
We are the users of the most versatile trainsim there is and it's afact that complicated software is incredibly hard to maintain and especially for a small team like N3V. We aren't dealing with Microsoft or Sony here, sometimes I even wonder how N3V manage to keep it's head above water. Yes, even though TANE is 't as flawless as Microsoft's Office *cough* I do appreciate what the N3V guys are doing and I cannot stand watching them be insulted like that.
Kind regards,
Ron
Anyone is entitled to his/her opinion, that is the root of freedom of speech. But when it turns into unwarranted and vicious insults it is step too far. That serves no purpose at all. Sure there are moments I am frustrated with TANE too but a little bit less tunnelvision by some people here wouldn't be a bad thing.
We are the users of the most versatile trainsim there is and it's afact that complicated software is incredibly hard to maintain and especially for a small team like N3V. We aren't dealing with Microsoft or Sony here, sometimes I even wonder how N3V manage to keep it's head above water. Yes, even though TANE is 't as flawless as Microsoft's Office *cough* I do appreciate what the N3V guys are doing and I cannot stand watching them be insulted like that.
Kind regards,
Ron
ledzeppelinfan1
New member
I can understand the OPs frustration and also cut him some slack for the less than ideal language chosen as he prefaced his rant with an admittedly poor use of English.
I've been in his shoes, though. So entirely pissed off that I couldn't see straight with a potentially wonderful simulator just ravaged with bugs and a learning curve that seemed beyond reasonable.
Now, that was with TS12, TANE SP2 has been nothing but a fantastic experience for me. However, when I read these types of posts, I wonder how long will it be until I'm the one experiencing these issues. That's not a good feeling as a consumer, constantly feeling as though your own personal hobby will soon be replaced by hours of troubleshooting and chasing solutions.
I think sometimes, NV3 would be better served slowing down on persuing what's next and simply just solidifying what is already there. Bc, imo, when a customer is enjoying a certain build of the game and an update ruins their experience, they are entitled to be extremely upset and to be critical of their disappointment is completely unacceptable and uncalled for, both by forum members and particularly NV3 staff.
New shiny bells and whistles mean nothing if the game is unstable.
There has to be attainable solutions bc it's a shame and a stain to consider how many customers have been lost due to what has definitely been a unreliable and frustrating product in the past and is still is for some.
I've been in his shoes, though. So entirely pissed off that I couldn't see straight with a potentially wonderful simulator just ravaged with bugs and a learning curve that seemed beyond reasonable.
Now, that was with TS12, TANE SP2 has been nothing but a fantastic experience for me. However, when I read these types of posts, I wonder how long will it be until I'm the one experiencing these issues. That's not a good feeling as a consumer, constantly feeling as though your own personal hobby will soon be replaced by hours of troubleshooting and chasing solutions.
I think sometimes, NV3 would be better served slowing down on persuing what's next and simply just solidifying what is already there. Bc, imo, when a customer is enjoying a certain build of the game and an update ruins their experience, they are entitled to be extremely upset and to be critical of their disappointment is completely unacceptable and uncalled for, both by forum members and particularly NV3 staff.
New shiny bells and whistles mean nothing if the game is unstable.
There has to be attainable solutions bc it's a shame and a stain to consider how many customers have been lost due to what has definitely been a unreliable and frustrating product in the past and is still is for some.
meatloaf747
Spotter...
I do appreciate what the N3V guys are doing and I cannot stand watching them be insulted like that. Kind regards, Ron
I respect your views Ron.
Happy Trainzing.
Cheers, Mac...
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Run an extended database repair. I did and I jumped from 0 to 1600+ faulty assets.
If it's going to cause problems, why even do it? My game is running fine now and I'm happy with that.
I was always under the impression that an Extended Database Repair was to be used as an absolute last option and, as a result, I have never performed one.
CM is currently showing me that I have 440,763 installed assets with zero errors. All my installed assets are built in or downloaded from the DLS, I do not use third party assets.
CM is currently showing me that I have 440,763 installed assets with zero errors. All my installed assets are built in or downloaded from the DLS, I do not use third party assets.
If it's going to cause problems, why even do it? My game is running fine now and I'm happy with that.
Because it was suggested (several times) on this forum to fix some mess.
Just to chip in at the back-end of this thread. Faulty assets only concern me if I am using or want to use them. I will try to repair them, but if I cannot I will then use another asset. There will always be a percent of assets faulty: Trainz is always developing, while many of the assets will not. The only real problem I see here is the question: are enough up to date assets being built? It would seem from discussions here that the answer may be no.
#pware: how many of those 440k+ assets are you actually using? I have only about 35k, many of which probably came with routes I dloaded and afterwards deleted. And I don't know how many of them are faulty (can't check at the moment, they are on the big boy in another room).
#pware: how many of those 440k+ assets are you actually using? I have only about 35k, many of which probably came with routes I dloaded and afterwards deleted. And I don't know how many of them are faulty (can't check at the moment, they are on the big boy in another room).
...The only real problem I see here is the question: are enough up to date assets being built? It would seem from discussions here that the answer may be no.
...
Try a CM filter on a minimum Trainz Build of 4.0. There are some 9,070 of them.
But there are many 1,000's more that work just fine in TANE. Some are built, or modified, to meet TB4.x validation. The real question will be what will be built for TS18 because all the existing materials will be legacy.
If Trainz users have been reading any of the recent threads in the Content Creation forum, they might realise that making content for the DLS has been getting more difficult for a few years now. It is now bordering on moving from the amateur to the professional. The tools required to make professional looking assets are expensive and may be beyond the reach of most who view this as a hobby. That might be a sad day for Trainz.
#pware: how many of those 440k+ assets are you actually using? I have only about 35k, many of which probably came with routes I dloaded and afterwards deleted. And I don't know how many of them are faulty (can't check at the moment, they are on the big boy in another room).
You are possibly right but my current TANE SP2 HF1 install is fairly fresh - some routes of my own, some DLC and a few downloaded routes but no deleted routes as yet. I did a random check of built in building assets (3825) to see how many had dependents and all of those I checked had dependents - mostly DLC stuff, and a route of my own. Likewise the buildings installed from DLS (343), all that I checked had dependents. Buildings installed payware (4418) all checked assets were dependents of DLC.
Other types of assets can be more complex. For example, some of the built in track are dependents of other assets such as bridges, active industries, tunnels - built in, downloaded or DLC.
Because it was suggested (several times) on this forum to fix some mess.
It's also been mentioned in the past by N3V to only use an EDR in cases where everything else has failed, as a last resort as it could cause problems, that was for TS12 however I suspect it probably still stands.
Wondering if those that those getting problems with running an EDR have massive "collections" of assets rather than just what they need / are using and may be taxing the capabilities of the hardware, what works on an i7 with 16GB plus, may not work well on a minimum spec setup, talking about manipulating the database here not running the game.
If Trainz users have been reading any of the recent threads in the Content Creation forum, they might realise that making content for the DLS has been getting more difficult for a few years now. It is now bordering on moving from the amateur to the professional. The tools required to make professional looking assets are expensive and may be beyond the reach of most who view this as a hobby. That might be a sad day for Trainz.
That is my concern too. While I have a copy of Blender on my system (and I keep it up to date) I have never had the time to delve into it so creating simple structures even for TS12 is beyond me. The newer materials being described for the next version of Trainz are really impressive but I would not even know where to start.
My expertise has been in creating routes, sessions, HTML assets, reskinning existing assets (always with permission) and lately I have ventured into the world of creating non-environmental textures. All very simple stuff compared to creating a locomotive with bump textures, shaders, LODs, etc.
...
My expertise has been in creating routes, ...
I am of the view that TrainzDev needs a route builder to play with the ground textures that N3V have already provided. The current test build was provided for CCs to play with the new textures and develop work flows to develop their own PBR materials. If you are interested in making test routes then let me know via a PM and I will nominate you for membership. Please note that you really would not want to make anything that may be used in future releases as it may be wasted effort. Think of it as a "sandpit" only.
Try a CM filter on a minimum Trainz Build of 4.0. There are some 9,070 of them.
But there are many 1,000's more that work just fine in TANE. Some are built, or modified, to meet TB4.x validation. The real question will be what will be built for TS18 because all the existing materials will be legacy.
If Trainz users have been reading any of the recent threads in the Content Creation forum, they might realise that making content for the DLS has been getting more difficult for a few years now. It is now bordering on moving from the amateur to the professional. The tools required to make professional looking assets are expensive and may be beyond the reach of most who view this as a hobby. That might be a sad day for Trainz.
I wasn't being critical. It's fairly obvious from running the mash-up - which has grown over the years - that older assets don't fit comfortably in the TANE sunshine. This doesn't bother me too much: I suspect I still see the older world of pre-TANE, if only out of ingrained habit. I even allow that there might come the day when Trainz will become too 'real', so real in fact as to become unreal, like many modern games. Even in the supposedly real world, we do not see much reality, seeing only what we expect or want to see. Even with TANE, we see only what we are used to seeing in Trainz - once, that is, we have got over the novelty. I reckon Tr18 will be the same.
Recent Victim
I had to do a Windows 10 full recovery - recovery CD.... This took me back to an older Windows 10 version but it ran, which after many hours, was a wonderful result. First, never leave your TANE software/data in the USER folder. Microsoft, not liking anything they did not create, erases most files including your stuff. Their is ample warning but others may be as dumb as me and assumed USER stuff would be avoided or copied - wrong.
So back to the thread subject - Today, while running on the recovered system Microsoft discovered my sin. They grabbed my system and FORCED an update from whatever version I was on to the latest Windows 10. They did warn that it would take 1.5 hours. But, I would be generously permitted to continue using my computer. What choice did I have? I could reboot and risk going back to the recovery disk and still ending up here, or trusting Microsoft. After the 1.5 hours I was released from terror and the update worked.
Finally, after trying lots of stuff I went to Tane. Of course the original program and data were gone. I had never tested TANE in the original error instance. Found the most recent copy of the program and started it. TANE began in a virgin state. I used backups and loaded some stuff, ran it and loads of OBSOLETE items. Thus my feelings paralleled those of the thread's author. The backup was a clean backup of a few weeks ago but for some unknown reason previously acceptable assets were now obsolete. While anger subsided, I continue to wonder if a more benign method of purging the database could have been found.
Destruction of non-compatible data and fixing of N errors equals an amount of new errors. Such continuous "fixing" makes a good case for dumping TANE and going to TS18. BUT there should then be NO EXCUSE for the repeat of the fix two break 1 performance we have seen. TS18 was the ONLY way to cleanup what was/is an endless mess. :'(
Dick
I had to do a Windows 10 full recovery - recovery CD.... This took me back to an older Windows 10 version but it ran, which after many hours, was a wonderful result. First, never leave your TANE software/data in the USER folder. Microsoft, not liking anything they did not create, erases most files including your stuff. Their is ample warning but others may be as dumb as me and assumed USER stuff would be avoided or copied - wrong.
So back to the thread subject - Today, while running on the recovered system Microsoft discovered my sin. They grabbed my system and FORCED an update from whatever version I was on to the latest Windows 10. They did warn that it would take 1.5 hours. But, I would be generously permitted to continue using my computer. What choice did I have? I could reboot and risk going back to the recovery disk and still ending up here, or trusting Microsoft. After the 1.5 hours I was released from terror and the update worked.
Finally, after trying lots of stuff I went to Tane. Of course the original program and data were gone. I had never tested TANE in the original error instance. Found the most recent copy of the program and started it. TANE began in a virgin state. I used backups and loaded some stuff, ran it and loads of OBSOLETE items. Thus my feelings paralleled those of the thread's author. The backup was a clean backup of a few weeks ago but for some unknown reason previously acceptable assets were now obsolete. While anger subsided, I continue to wonder if a more benign method of purging the database could have been found.
Destruction of non-compatible data and fixing of N errors equals an amount of new errors. Such continuous "fixing" makes a good case for dumping TANE and going to TS18. BUT there should then be NO EXCUSE for the repeat of the fix two break 1 performance we have seen. TS18 was the ONLY way to cleanup what was/is an endless mess. :'(
Dick
A timely reminder Dick.
My system does an automatic data backup every Monday morning but after reading your post I decided to check my backup software and discovered that it had been over two years since I had performed a full system backup - that is several major Windows and software updates ago. So a full system backup is now underway.
EDIT: Now I think I know why I have not done a full system backup in over 2 years - it will take 5.5 hrs to complete. So I have left it running and will check it when I return home in about 10 hrs. Hopefully it will not say "Backup Failed".
My system does an automatic data backup every Monday morning but after reading your post I decided to check my backup software and discovered that it had been over two years since I had performed a full system backup - that is several major Windows and software updates ago. So a full system backup is now underway.
EDIT: Now I think I know why I have not done a full system backup in over 2 years - it will take 5.5 hrs to complete. So I have left it running and will check it when I return home in about 10 hrs. Hopefully it will not say "Backup Failed".
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This is veering OT a little but the last two Windows updates seem to have degraded performance - often takes the main PC much longer to start and it occasionally insists on opening Windows Mail without prompting (and I've checked it's not in the Startup folder). I'm assuming this is the so called Creator's update though I haven't tested TANE yet. Times I wish I'd stayed on Win 7!
If you take an image of the system drive with something like Macrium reflect Free version, Windows issue? just reinstall the image, 15 to 20 minutes tops no loss of data TANE or anything else other than what you did since the backup. No need to ever reinstall and if you get a bad Windows upgrade just restore the image you made before the update, pretty painless.
Restored my C drive that way yesterday after a power outage stuffed it up, lot quicker than waiting for check disk to repair the damage back up and running in 10 minutes ;o)
Restored my C drive that way yesterday after a power outage stuffed it up, lot quicker than waiting for check disk to repair the damage back up and running in 10 minutes ;o)
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