Government rethink on our railways and re-openings?

I noticed a wee bit of passing news that the Minister of Transport is saying that there may well be re-consideration of some railway lines closed away back in the 1960's by Dr Beeching to be re-opened. In addition that the present companies should perhaps be considered for looking after the maintenance etc side of their lines rather than Network Rail? One is going to do that in the next couple of years up the East Coast main line route.

To be frank I was aware that away back in the sixties there were lines that were dead as far as passengers were concerned but many former lines have seen a lot more houses and people since then. No what the government has to do is actually look and come up with lines or ask.

Cambridge to Bedford has been mentioned, though part of that is now under a housing estate.
Northampton to Bedford would probably be viable now too, though not sure how much is built on.
Waverley route through to Carlisle albeit the southern section was something of a traffic desert.
Woodhead route for additional trans-Pennine capacity.
In the south, Uckfield to Lewes would restore a valuable link to the South Coast for when the Brighton line goes pear shaped.

It all depends on the criteria which will presumably be scored against practicality (i.e. built on, major structures remove), easing capacity on existing routes, heavy population growth and the attendant road congestion.

And the little issue of money as so far the government has ruled out any new funds being made available.

Oh and the East Coast line is going to the dogs, again thanks to the Tories stupid policy of giving it to Stagecoach https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...se-terminated-three-years-early-virgin-trains when it was profitable under state ownership.

Hi Everybody.
I am more than a little sceptical with regard to this announcement by the government. The city of Bristol, along with North Somerset and South Gloucestershire has been for some time a large economic growth area which along with others has in recent years provided much of the overall growth in the British economy. However, successive UK governments have failed to invest in the infrastructure of this region especially rail.

In the above the electrification of the Great Western Mainline between London, Bristol and Cardiff has now been abandoned at Chippenham after spending over a billion to electrify the line that far. The planned reopening of the line between portishead and Bristol for passenger trains has again been abandoned due to cost despite the line already being used for freight. Many examples could be given in regard to existing service’s failing commuters due to lack of investment.

As to the reopening of lines which where closed by the Beeching axe, I am afraid that in this area much of the land used by those lines has now been built on. In the foregoing new plans would have to be drawn up, land purchased with demolition having to be carried out all costing millions if not billions to complete.

I believe that this rail announcement was made to divert attention away from the mess this goverment has made of Brexit along with the housing crisis and much more.

Sorry but I believe these proposals are nothing short of "Pie in the sky" and this goverment is very well aware of that
Bill

Vern said:

...Cambridge to Bedford has been mentioned, though part of that is now under a housing estate...

Click to expand...

Vern, Cambridge right through to Oxford via Bedford and Milton Keynes has now been given the go ahead. Much of the planning has already been done along with a fair bit of the preliminary ground work. I believe the major work starts early next year with trains supposedly running by 2020. We'll see.

Bill, I fully agree with your assessment of Grayling, his failures and his Disneyland type proposals. The idea that any of these private companies will hang around without any massive increase to their "subsidies" when they are made responsible for track and signalling is ludicrous. They certainly won't be getting involved with electrification plans on the scale of the ones you have spoken of either. They'll stay in their comfort zones and line their back pockets till somebody holds them accountable for something and then they'll run off into the night like they always do.

This news is nothing short of a smokescreen to cover Theresa May's treasonous sellout to those EU leeches. In my opinion, they're no better than thieves and pirates, the whole lot of them.

Cheers

Dave

I am afraid that in this area much of the land used by those lines has now been built on

Click to expand...

Minor problem with compulsory purchase.

Hi again everybody.
Cyberdonegreen, as stated by both of us, without doubt these proposals are nothing short of a “smoke screen” by this goverment to divert attention from gross failings in other areas. By example of how ridiculous these plans are for the Bristol and North Somerset region just read on.

Approximately ten years ago two train operating companies ran services on the Great Western Mainline. The then goverment stepped in and gave all services on the line to First Group who operated under the name of First Great Western. Wales & West trains exited the door and First Group took over all operation’s.

To be fair to them the above move has proved popular with North Somerset commuters such as myself as First Group immediately began running HST services right through from London Paddington via Bristol to Taunton which has meant that commuters do not have to change at Bristol Temple Meads for the main stations in North Somerset (a rare success on Britain’s rail services these days)

However, the new proposals announced will if they are carried out bring back two train operating companies on the line, one for district and regional services and one for HST through services. So, once again it will be “all change at Bristol” for thousands of North Somerset commuters........ absolutely ridiculous.

I also believe it is most definitely the wrong time to introduce any major changes without a full national transport review involving both road and rail integration which would look into the future nationwide of passenger transport services going forward.

Bill

clam1952 said:

Minor problem with compulsory purchase.

Click to expand...

I like that one Malc LOL. Have you looked at property prices in North Somerset lately. Those prices are now going even higher as up to five thousand will be employed in the building of the nuclear power station at Hinkley point when it really gets underway. All those and their families will be looking for housing and transport services in North and West Somerset.

The mind boggles.
Bill

Well I don't let the declining Guardian put me off :hehe: but in all seriousness the main thing should be as a contributor has indicated looking at specific possible route re-introductions. Neither of the two main political corners are anything to worship in hard truth so let us keep to the main thrust of seeing if potential former routes are being considered and not just words. The Minister did not need to come out with it at all as it was not a front item. Obviously government and local organisations are the criteria andI would hope my English cousins will do as well with re-openings as we have.

After all I would remind that up here in the north of the kingdom beyond Carlisle were-opened that the possibility is not some nonsense and after all he is really aiming in England so you can follow us up here. A former party leader up here promised that if re-elected at the General Election he would campaign to get the Fraserburgh and Peterhead Line off that brought back. He lost his seat, haha. Why he didn't argue that in all his previous years is something else. Bye, by, Mr Salmond. Anyway the government has raised things so let us all hope this unexpected thing does take off.

Vern, Cambridge right through to Oxford via Bedford and Milton Keynes has now been given the go ahead. Much of the planning has already been done along with a fair bit of the preliminary ground work. I believe the major work starts early next year with trains supposedly running by 2020. We'll see.

Click to expand...

I've heard Chiltern are also interested in going from Aylesbury to Milton Keynes and re-opening Princes Risborough via Thame through to Oxford which would give them a slightly shorter route to London for their new Evergreen service than round through Bicester. Back in the early 90's when the Class 16x DMU's were introduced there was for a time a through Bristol to Oxford service so conceivable something along those lines could be done to extend a core Oxbridge service (Bristol to Norwich??).

Vern said:

Back in the early 90's when the Class 16x DMU's were introduced there was for a time a through Bristol to Oxford service so conceivable something along those lines could be done to extend a core Oxbridge service (Bristol to Norwich??).

Click to expand...

Bristol to Norwich via Oxford!!!........AAAAHHH, we can dream Vern........AAAHHH, we can dream (LOL)
Bill

On a 166...

Actually I quite like the Turbo's though Bristol to Norwich might be pushing it. I remember from my days working for Wales & West and their successors how proud they were of the Manchester to Penzance, Carmarthen to Waterloo etc. through services but can't imagine what the passengers thought when they turned up and found a 2 car 158! From a Controllers' point of view the Waterloo services in particular were something of a nightmare if something went wrong off the core route of the main services. Though I did have the pleasure (?) when the overnight train from Carmarthen ran to Paddington not Waterloo, of having a hand in sending a 143 to Paddington as it was the only "open" replacement set at Bristol TM when the 158 failed. I think it turned a few heads running up then back down the Thames Valley! Once the service started running to Waterloo via Reading and Ascot, the 143's weren't route cleared so if substituted vice a 158 had to terminate at Reading.

Sorry to have digressed a bit...

The Oxford to Bletchley link is running a bit behind schedule.
Originally should have had traffic starting this month (December 2017) but only supports traffic from Oxford to Bicester currently.
Now pushed back to 2023 and that includes the works on the Bedford to Bletchley section.
I see a big issue with the various road crossings but especially the Woburn Sands crossing if the plan is to run high speed trains and a larger number of trains. Putting a road bridge there is going to cause lots of complaints due to the large amount of new housing built on the former industrial site by the crossing and the other brown field sites by the road and track.

Vern said:

...so conceivable something along those lines could be done to extend a core Oxbridge service (Bristol to Norwich??).

Click to expand...

You never know, Vern, that could easily come to fruition as the concerns at the moment are seemingly being express about the serious lack of East/West services and routes as opposed to the numorous North/South services and routes. Most routes East/West are slow and ponderous meandering between the major North/South routes and calling in at the larger towns served by the East Coat mainline, Midland mainline and West Coast mainline. The last time I worked from Birmingham to Cambridge (admittedly some 10 years or more ago now) the majority of the route was just being brought up to 75 mph running with one or two places even achieving 90 mph. That's pretty poor when you look at North/South routes.

Take a look, too, at the North of England (services from/to Leeds, York, Newcastle or Sheffield to places like Liverpool or Manchester are a disgrace by modern standards.) Because of the years of penny pinching, many single lines now operate in the North with crappy bus bodies on rail vehicle bogies bouncing around on track that's barely fit for a siding whilst too much money has been spent in the South (in London in particular.) This Londoncentric view has been to the detriment of the rest of the country as a whole. Fifteen Billion pounds for Cross-rail alone and they're already talking about a Crossrail 2. That's why I don't believe a word that comes out of Grayling's mouth. Somebody will get lynched if that stage 2 gets the go-ahead while the rest of the country continues to suffer the 3rd class service that we do. London has got enough. I suggest they take a look past the Watford gap before they find themselves looking for alternate employment.

Cheers

Dave

Hi everybody.
I would very much agree with the statement made in regard to the “diabolical” state of passenger rail services west to east and visa versa cross country in England. Here in the west country communications with south east England were very good until the Romans arrived and built a very large town between the two points and called it Londinium .

As Cybordongreen has said rail services in England and wales are now very London centrist. By example, the forgoing means that all rail commuters originating out of the west country traveling to any part of south east England have to catch a service to London Paddington, then tube it across the centre of the capital to catch another train from Liverpool street which serves the south east. In business terms that is all very time consuming and may account in part for why British workers are being accused low productivity when measured against other European countries employee output.

With Britain’s road network becoming ever more congested there is often little or no alternative to rail travel. However, any future planning for rail development must encompass that development being inclusive for all of England and Wales and not targeted towards London. In that I believe that HS2 should be cancelled immediately and that huge funding distributed throughout the most deprived areas of the existing rail network.

Poor regional infrastructure always brings about poor living standards and low wages in the areas affected. Therefore regions such as the North East of England, parts of the North West, North and East Wales, Devon and Cornwall should receive the largest share of the funding that had been earmarked for a cancelled HS2 project.

As has already been stated, a direct rail connection between Bristol and Norwich via Oxford alleviating the need to travel via London could be accomplished with only reasonable expenditure above what is already planned. That route would be a huge economic benefit to both regions, but sadly as things stand at present I cannot perceive it happening along with much else in the above.

Bill

Well I must say wholbr that I would side with you on the H2 plan of things. I would prefer to see the money go on bringing back dead lines in whatever part of GB they are. Of the routes brought back up here in Scotland one at over 30 miles, eh? (!). One of those brought back is electrified and three of the four were from the Beeching times. Seeing that it is the government who brought this subject up that puts it in the front line of principally doing something to back it up. The worst part of Britain for closures was not Scotland, England or Wales but Northern Ireland.

When rail and bus were nationalised away back in 1948 within a year the Ulster Government started a massive closing exercise. It was argued by many that when the UTA was set up they were bossed by road people so rail lost over three quarters of what existed. Rail and bus are still State owned and there is no Network Rail there. Recently there has been a growing campaign to have the ten miles from Portadown station to Armagh brought back and in fact thousands signed a petition. The NIRailway does a great job but here we have the ecclesiastical capital of all-Ireland left in the cold. It would highlight Armagh for tourism and regular travellers to have the comfort of the trains. I'm a Scots Briton but though we would argue on the mainland part of the nation but the rail thing includes all parts of GB! Good on you wholbr!

Hi everybody.
On a lighter note for this thread, much has been said in regard to the class 140s (bus bodies on rail bogies) DMUs. However, when the Wales & West Trains operated them on Great Western Mainline between Weston Super Mare and Bristol Temple Meads the Class 140 became my favourite units. Many rail commuters will think I am deranged in stating the above but many of us that regularly used those trains in North Somerset genuinely felt the same.

I along with many others i used the Wales & West 140s to commute early mornings into Bristol T.M station and then transfer to First Group HST services to London Paddington before First ran through services into North Somerset. Both inward and return journey were on the 140s always full of Character to say the least.

The loud noise from their often very Smokey diesels always caused everyone to raise the level of their voice if they where chatting every time the train pulled out of a station. Once above approximately 30 mph every fitting on board would rattle like crazy and trains passing in the opposite direction would blow the inward folding doors open for a second or two before they would slam shut again with a great crash. Further to that their was always a strong smell of diesel fuel prevaricating throughout the passenger compartments.

However the most famous feature of the Wales & West 140s was the vibration as they reached higher speeds. I have always worn glasses since I was approximately eighteen but the vibration on the 140 units often genuinely made my glasses vibrate down my nose until they would fall off if not pushed back before it reached that point. In the foregoing many regular users would joke in regard to losing the fillings out of their teeth due to traveling on the Wales & West 140s.

The above stated the 140s held “great character” and will always I feel be remembered with quite some affection by those of us who regularly used them. To put it in a nutshell, when traveling at 125mph on a HST if feels more like you are traveling a 50mph, when traveling at 50mph on a class 140 it feels like you are traveling at 125mph (LOL).

I think (I may be wrong) that in some parts of North East England they are still in service?

Sorry to digress but I felt someone should speak up for the for the much maligned 140s
Bill

Yep, you did digress Bill and as a Glasgow man will send you to Edinburgh as a punishment....!:hehe:

Northern Rail I believe still have Class 142's in use in the NE and 144's in the Leeds area (essentially 3 car 143's). GWR still use them around the Exeter area for the Devon "Metro" - Barnstaple - Exmouth - Paignton but my understanding is, as the diesel rolling stock cascade heads west from the Thames Valley they will be phased out in favour of 15x traction.

Sadly though, everything is plastic and fibreglass these days. Functional with minimal comfort (except for those special luxury trains.) Long gone are are the days of the beautifully sprung, thickly upholstered seating of yesteryear (although, I could tell you some nasty tales about some of the life forms that lived within them :hehe:.)

Cheers

Dave